Trade and Free Agency Thread - 2021/22 - Post Deadline

[Dreakmur]

He's succeeded fairly well. But the stars haven't overcome their demons.

You feel bad for the guy, because his thinking and process is correct. But the product is tainted somewhere that not's measurable.

It's not a mistake to pay elite players, but it is a mistake to have all those players playing the same position. Goalies and defensemen are much more important than wingers, especially wingers who will take ice time away from each other.

 

[Menzinger]

Oilers deal

Holl for Pulj.

See if we can get his potential out and cap should be the same

I'd easily be all over this from a Leafs pov. Even if they wanted a small add

 

[BayStBullies]

I'd easily be all over this from a Leafs pov. Even if they wanted a small add

They do love terrible Leafs defenders.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I'd easily be all over this from a Leafs pov. Even if they wanted a small add

It is probably fair value, and I really like Puljujarvi, but I think I would rather just take their 2nd personally. EDM really struggled to develop him properly and I don't know if we can salvage him enough to be worth more than our bounty of quality wing prospects we already have.

 

[thusk]

Move #1

To ottawa

William Nylander

To anaheim

7th overall
Petr Mrazek
Nick abruzzesse
3rd pick OTT

To toronto
John Gibson
Max Comtois

# 2

Trade kerfoot to who want him

#3

Sign perron, copp or palat around 5M

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Perron/copp/palat-Jt- robertson
Engval-Kampf-Comtois
???-Blackwell-anderson

Rielly-brodie
Muzzin-liljegren/sandin
Gio-liljegren/sandin

Gibson
Ufa like wedgewood ( around 1M)

Yes maybe offensivly leafs are worst but why just dont try to win game 2-1 or 1-0 with a complete 200 feet game and with player who will give everything they've got unstead or trying to outscored your opponent 4-3, 5-4???

Yes hes a ppg player but for me nylander is a selfish player... i dont think leafs really matter for him ( dont think he will resign in 2 season because he will go where the money is, thats it), he will never put team succes in front of his comfort. He will
never crash the net if he can get hurt, he will never block a shot to protect a lead, he will never make an tremendous effort to make a defensive play...so why just dont use it to get a game changer on a most needed position? A just sign player with not that muxh skilled but with heart...

 

[Lightsol]

Seems crazy that a team with Matthews, Tavares, Marner and Nylander would need to further bolster that area. Still, I'd have to agree with at least adding whatever you can, whenever you can. I just don't know about trying to pull through with less proven or potentially questionable goaltending.

This is what a lot of people seem to miss; it's not that the Leafs need to bolster the rest of the lineup because the big 4 don't score. But if the third and fourth lines are doing NOTHING offensively, that allows the other team to concentrate on shutting down the two lines that ARE offensive threats. It's a more extreme example of what happened in the Montreal series; with the loss of Tavares, the only line that could be considered consistent dangerous would be the Matthews-Marner line, which allowed them to concentrate their top defensive players on shutting that line down. The difference is two lines instead of one, but Tampa is deep enough to handle two lines. If the third line was at least a threat to score periodically, it would take pressure off the top two lines because it would put the thought into the other team's planning that the third line might warrant some attention.

More dangerous lines = harder to plan a good defensive gameplan against them. This is Tampa's true secret weapon; their third line is dangerous enough to warrant attention, which takes it away from the first two. But the Leafs' Mikayev-Kampf-Engvall line was not dangerous in the slightest.

 

[Dreakmur]

This is what a lot of people seem to miss; it's not that the Leafs need to bolster the rest of the lineup because the big 4 don't score. But if the third and fourth lines are doing NOTHING offensively, that allows the other team to concentrate on shutting down the two lines that ARE offensive threats. It's a more extreme example of what happened in the Montreal series; with the loss of Tavares, the only line that could be considered consistent dangerous would be the Matthews-Marner line, which allowed them to concentrate their top defensive players on shutting that line down. The difference is two lines instead of one, but Tampa is deep enough to handle two lines. If the third line was at least a threat to score periodically, it would take pressure off the top two lines because it would put the thought into the other team's planning that the third line might warrant some attention.

More dangerous lines = harder to plan a good defensive gameplan against them. This is Tampa's true secret weapon; their third line is dangerous enough to warrant attention, which takes it away from the first two. But the Leafs' Mikayev-Kampf-Engvall line was not dangerous in the slightest.

Teams are going to target the biggest threats. Having a scoring third line won't change that they'll use their best checkers against Matthews and Marner.

 

[Antropovsky]

Move #1

To ottawa

William Nylander

To anaheim

7th overall
Petr Mrazek
Nick abruzzesse
3rd pick OTT

To toronto
John Gibson
Max Comtois

# 2

Trade kerfoot to who want him

#3

Sign perron, copp or palat around 5M

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Perron/copp/palat-Jt- robertson
Engval-Kampf-Comtois
???-Blackwell-anderson

Rielly-brodie
Muzzin-liljegren/sandin
Gio-liljegren/sandin

Gibson
Ufa like wedgewood ( around 1M)

Yes maybe offensivly leafs are worst but why just dont try to win game 2-1 or 1-0 with a complete 200 feet game and with player who will give everything they've got unstead or trying to outscored your opponent 4-3, 5-4???

Yes hes a ppg player but for me nylander is a selfish player... i dont think leafs really matter for him ( dont think he will resign in 2 season because he will go where the money is, thats it), he will never put team succes in front of his comfort. He will
never crash the net if he can get hurt, he will never block a shot to protect a lead, he will never make an tremendous effort to make a defensive play...so why just dont use it to get a game changer on a most needed position? A just sign player with not that muxh skilled but with heart...

That is a bad looking team. Why trade a 7 million dollar 30+ goal, ppg player who performs in the playoffs? And for an uncertain return? We know what we got with Nylander, he is as naturally skilled as they comr, similar to Kessel. This kind of move, is an indication of us continuing to progressively worsen our roster as we try to fit three 11 million dollar forwards onto our team. Nylander is part of the solution, he's underpaid compared to his production. We need to hold onto any bit of cap relief we can.

The answer is cashing in on Marner while his value is high and permanently putting an A on Matthews chest.

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

That is a bad looking team. Why trade a 7 million dollar 30+ goal, ppg player who performs in the playoffs? And for an uncertain return? We know what we got with Nylander, he is as naturally skilled as they comr, similar to Kessel. This kind of move, is an indication of us continuing to progressively worsen our roster as we try to fit three 11 million dollar forwards onto our team. Nylander is part of the solution, he's underpaid compared to his production. We need to hold onto any bit of cap relief we can.

The answer is cashing in on Marner while his value is high and permanently putting an A on Matthews chest.

Sure thats the solution, trade the 90 + point winger. Matthews and Marner are the engine that runs this team. Nylander is a great player but he's not on their level, atleast not yet.

 

[garyrobertsforPM]

Do you think Dallas would ever consider Nylander for Otenger(spelling)?

 

[Brobust]

I'd easily be all over this from a Leafs pov. Even if they wanted a small add

Leafs will say it's easier to get a winger than it is to get a d-man like Holl.

It's going to sound like a joke but Holl is essentially untouchable.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

This is what a lot of people seem to miss; it's not that the Leafs need to bolster the rest of the lineup because the big 4 don't score. But if the third and fourth lines are doing NOTHING offensively, that allows the other team to concentrate on shutting down the two lines that ARE offensive threats. It's a more extreme example of what happened in the Montreal series; with the loss of Tavares, the only line that could be considered consistent dangerous would be the Matthews-Marner line, which allowed them to concentrate their top defensive players on shutting that line down. The difference is two lines instead of one, but Tampa is deep enough to handle two lines. If the third line was at least a threat to score periodically, it would take pressure off the top two lines because it would put the thought into the other team's planning that the third line might warrant some attention.

More dangerous lines = harder to plan a good defensive gameplan against them. This is Tampa's true secret weapon; their third line is dangerous enough to warrant attention, which takes it away from the first two. But the Leafs' Mikayev-Kampf-Engvall line was not dangerous in the slightest.

I'd place more attention on the 4th line personally. Tampa's 3rd line (or namely Paul) was the difference maker in the last game, but our 3rd line was huge in our Game 3 win.

Our 4th line was just out there taking shifts. They did practically nothing, and were a net negative in the end. Tampa's 4th line was effectively the same, but that is no excuse for our 4th line. Our 3rd line was at least an effective shutdown line and did provide some timely offense.

If we get our prospects to step up and help form a solid 4th line, that may be the difference for us. Keefe then needs to trust them throughout the game so they don't just play 7 or 8 minutes. Blackwell, Simmonds, Thornton, Spezza (except against MTL), Clifford, etc. have given us absolutely nothing over the years, or have even actively cost us games. It doesn't need to be expensive (after all, Tampa's 4th line is pretty much a bunch of sub mill guys), but even if they provided one or two more timely goals, we are winning series here.

Hence, we need to trust our prospects. They are cheap. They have skill. They have hungry. It is time to let these guys have their shot at replacing some of the guys we will need to cut.

Leafs will say it's easier to get a winger than it is to get a d-man like Holl.

It's going to sound like a joke but Holl is essentially untouchable.

I wouldn't say he is untouchable. But I don't think they are going to give him away for scraps, and good on them.

Unlike Leafs fans, our team actually values the importance that he brings to this lineup. It doesn't make him irreplaceable or untouchable. But it does make him a guy you don't sell for a mid-round pick either.

 

[Brobust]

I'd place more attention on the 4th line personally. Tampa's 3rd line (or namely Paul) was the difference maker in the last game, but our 3rd line was huge in our Game 3 win.

Our 4th line was just out there taking shifts. They did practically nothing, and were a net negative in the end. Tampa's 4th line was effectively the same, but that is no excuse for our 4th line. Our 3rd line was at least an effective shutdown line and did provide some timely offense.

If we get our prospects to step up and help form a solid 4th line, that may be the difference for us. Keefe then needs to trust them throughout the game so they don't just play 7 or 8 minutes. Blackwell, Simmonds, Thornton, Spezza (except against MTL), Clifford, etc. have given us absolutely nothing over the years, or have even actively cost us games. It doesn't need to be expensive (after all, Tampa's 4th line is pretty much a bunch of sub mill guys), but even if they provided one or two more timely goals, we are winning series here.

Hence, we need to trust our prospects. They are cheap. They have skill. They have hungry. It is time to let these guys have their shot at replacing some of the guys we will need to cut.



I wouldn't say he is untouchable. But I don't think they are going to give him away for scraps, and good on them.

Unlike Leafs fans, our team actually values the importance that he brings to this lineup. It doesn't make him irreplaceable or untouchable. But it does make him a guy you don't sell for a mid-round pick either.

Even I was guilty of this but everyone wants to dump Holl. People don't realize his replacement will be more expensive.

 

[OVO16]

Friedman said that the Leafs had interest in Deslauriers at the Trade deadline too. So I def buy the Deslauriers smoke.

He's def more of a consistent physical player than Simmonds or clifford. Simmonds wasn't overjoyed with the fact that he had to lay bodychecks and potentially fight every single game.

So in that regard, Deslauriers is fine. Just don't scratch the guy in the playoffs if he takes 1 stupid penalty.

Im just tired of our "tough guys" being scratched when we need it most

 

[Brobust]

Friedman said that the Leafs had interest in Deslauriers at the Trade deadline too. So I def buy the Deslauriers smoke.

He's def more of a consistent physical player than Simmonds or clifford. Simmonds wasn't overjoyed with the fact that he had to lay bodychecks and potentially fight every single game.

So in that regard, Deslauriers is fine. Just don't scratch the guy in the playoffs if he takes 1 stupid penalty.

Im just tired of our "tough guys" being scratched when we need it most

Simmonds was ineffective. He's basically Matt Martin at this point, completely useless.

That 4th line had no identity and never developed an identity.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Even I was guilty of this but everyone wants to dump Holl. People don't realize his replacement will be more expensive.

I think it depends. If we are not moving Muzzin too, his replacement could be having Liljegren and Sandin in the lineup full time.

 

[Brobust]

I think it depends. If we are not moving Muzzin too, his replacement could be having Liljegren and Sandin in the lineup full time.

Holl's a defensive defenseman. He might not look like he's doing much, but he ties up forecheckers better than Sandin and Liljegren can and he makes things significantly more manageable in the defensive zone.

Leafs management will never assume that either of those two are viable replacements until they prove themselves against top 6 competition.

 

[Menzinger]

Leafs will say it's easier to get a winger than it is to get a d-man like Holl.

It's going to sound like a joke but Holl is essentially untouchable.

I'm fairly pro Holl compared to a number of folks, but I wouldn't say he's untouchable. He was also a healthy scratch at points this season. With Lily getting a bit of a raise, they may want to shed a bit of money by getting rid of Holl to offset it

I'd agree about him potentially having more value though

 

[thusk]

That is a bad looking team. Why trade a 7 million dollar 30+ goal, ppg player who performs in the playoffs? For a crapshoot? Again an indication of us progressively getting worse as we try to fit 3 11 million dollar forwards onto our team. You likely aren't going to get a better 2 players than Draisaitl and McDavid on your roster and look at the struggles the Oilers are having. Nylander is part of the solution, he's underpaid compared to his production. We need to hold onto any bit of cap relief we can.

The answer is cashing in on Marner whole hos value is high permanently putting an A on Matthews chest.

Nylander is soft, he cheat all game long to get breakaway or 2v1. He never crash the net, he avoid every hit, will never sacrifice his body on a blocked shot, never give a 2x effort... Nylander is nothing else than a jonathan Drouin with a best shot... hes get stats yes but its not with that kind of player you will win with...

Marner do all those thing and he dont need to cheat to get scoring chance

Just last playoff, he get good stats but was just trash... of 7 points he get, 2 of them was when game was already over at 5-0, 1 came from a missed pass (lucky point) 2 came from a goal he did nothing on the play...of 7 he made 2 good play...1 of those 2 points was limit of cheating...

i did the same thing with marner, of his 8 points... 1 was on a game already over, 1 was just lucky he just cleared his zone and gave a breakaway to kampf ( lucky point). 6 of 8 points came from a good play of marner and wasn't even close to cheat on any of those goal...

When you just watching scoresheets...

 

[MarMarSab3]

Holl is useless, get him as far away from this team as possible. Thinking you're gonna get Puli for him is hilarious

 

[Dreakmur]

Holl's a defensive defenseman. He might not look like he's doing much, but he ties up forecheckers better than Sandin and Liljegren can and he makes things significantly more manageable in the defensive zone.

He has the skill of a defensive defenseman, but he wants to play like an offensive defenseman.

Tying up forecheckers? If that’s his big contribution, it’s pretty sad.

 

[kb]

There is too much riding on this season that Dubas will take a risk with 2 unproven goalies. I think the play is swing with Gibson or if possible Helle

For my money, I pay extra for Helle......he doesn't seem to quit like Gibson appears to.

 

[LeafChief]

Lazar only made 800k last year. He'd be a great add for 4C. Would much rather go this route over the reported Gagner idea.

I have no interest in Gagner.

 

[Antropovsky]

Nylander is soft, he cheat all game long to get breakaway or 2v1. He never crash the net, he avoid every hit, will never sacrifice his body on a blocked shot, never give a 2x effort... Nylander is nothing else than a jonathan Drouin with a best shot... hes get stats yes but its not with that kind of player you will win with...

Marner do all those thing and he dont need to cheat to get scoring chance

Just last playoff, he get good stats but was just trash... of 7 points he get, 2 of them was when game was already over at 5-0, 1 came from a missed pass (lucky point) 2 came from a goal he did nothing on the play...of 7 he made 2 good play...1 of those 2 points was limit of cheating...

i did the same thing with marner, of his 8 points... 1 was on a game already over, 1 was just lucky he just cleared his zone and gave a breakaway to kampf ( lucky point). 6 of 8 points came from a good play of marner and wasn't even close to cheat on any of those goal...

When you just watching scoresheets...

Nylander has 10 goals and 19 points in his last 19 playoff games

Marner has 2 goals and 16 points in his last 19 playoff games.

Game 6 last year he Marner had unlimited time on the PK with the puck to clear it, and instead of just firing it on the ice... he decided to get cute and try and flip it high in the air. It ended up going out of play...resulting on a 5-3 goal against.

This year game 6 OT.... he decided to get cute and try a hail mary flip pass to Matthews, his pass was behind Matthews, which led to a direct giveaway to Kucherov who Marner than was caught flat footed in the defensive zone...lost his stick as Kucherov powered through him and led to a the OT goal.

In two game 6 games we could've eliminated our opponent, Marner was the direct cause to us losing. I can't recall Nylander doing the same in any games.

1 make 11 million per year
1 make 7 million per year

 

[Antropovsky]

Sure thats the solution, trade the 90 + point winger. Matthews and Marner are the engine that runs this team. Nylander is a great player but he's not on their level, atleast not yet.

....... Marner is the engine? He has 2 goals and 16 points in his last 19 playoff games (playing with a franchise center). He has caused more gwg against in elimination games than he has created.

Everyone is so impressed with Marners defense and penalty killing.... David Kampf is an excellent defensive player and PKer and he has as many goals as Marner in the postseason but Kampf scored 2 goals in just 7 games. We're paying Marner 11 million to be Kampf?

The bar is super low for Marner.... but incredibly high for Nylander. Marner isn't making 9 million like most are star players, he is making 11 million and producing in the playoffs like a 6-7 million dollar player for 3 consecutive years.