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Trade and Free Agency Discussion Thread - Don't Expect More Augmenting

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LeafChief said:
Chris Johnston on The Leaf Report (Mirtle and Siegel) today:

- Leafs D is improved with Brodie (not having to rely on Ceci/Hainsey to play on the top pair is big)
- Move Siegel is most skeptical about is Wayne Simmonds. Thinks they could have waited and got someone else at half the price (Perry?)
- CJ: Leafs really wanted Simmonds. Simmonds was in the war room on July 1
- 33% of Leafs fans voted Jimmy Vesey as least exciting signing
- CJ: Optimistic about Vesey (sees a lot of upside especially at that price)
- CJ: They've created very healthy competition at bottom of the lineup
- Lower cap hits give players more opportunity here (Joey Anderson as the example)
- Leafs had a 2nd round pick on the table for Johnsson. Leafs really liked Anderson
- Leafs have a great medical staff that can get players career back on track (attractive for UFAs - used Ennis as an example)
- CJ: Sees this as an improved roster. Healthy Morgan Rielly will be very big for the team
- Tavares was hurt coming into last season
- Backup goalie situation last year was a disaster. Will be much improved this year.
- CJ: Leafs went through the exercise of trading Andersen. Once Lehner signed in Vegas, Leafs didn't see anyone better than Andersen. They looked at Keumper but didn't see him as a huge upgrade if an upgrade at all
- Leafs have some concerns about how a potential Andersen negotiation may go
- Leafs feel Carolina leaked trade talks regarding Andersen (and Nylander in the past during the contract stalemate)
- CJ senses some frustration from the Leafs head office towards Carolina as there seems to be a trend of leaking information
- Jack Campbell has stayed in Toronto and has been working very hard. Sees a path to potentially play a lot in Toronto over the next few years
- Aaron Dell is an underrated pickup. He is good.
- Last year, Neuvirth was penciled in as the backup. He decided in camp he didn't want to play. Family didn't want to be in North America
- CJ: There is a 'secret sauce' that goes into a healthy dressing room. Leafs made good moves to bring some character and attitude into the dressing room
- Martin Marincin way down Leafs depth chart now.
- Siegel: Thornton should give the Leafs the best value.
- CJ: Vesey should give the Leafs the best value. Could play in top 6 for $900k.
- CJ: Leafs would still look at Weegar but thinks the ship has sailed. Florida wanted Dermott and Johnsson. Seems dead for now but Leafs are interested.
--CJ: Appears Nick Robertson won't make the team unless he blows it out of the water in camp. Nothing against Robertson but he can take another development year (OHL or AHL if OHL doesn't run) and Leafs can push his ELC off for another year)
- Optimal option for the Leafs is if OHL doesn't play and Robertson can play an AHL season.
- Siegel: He looked a little over matched in the playoffs but didn't look out of place
- CJ: Thinks Barabanov is a 'lowkey interesting play by the Leafs'. Thinks he will play. Zaitsev, Ozhiganov never played AHL.
- Some people in Russia are skeptical about Barabanov's ability in the NHL.
- Barabanov is already in Toronto. Making a sincere effort.
- KHL has a salary cap now and players aren't making very much money. Top players make at most 2 million USD.
- CJ would be stunned if Leafs don't re-sign Hyman.
- Mirtle says Hyman will take less to stay
- CJ: Season before Marner was RFA, they could have traded him for Werenski
- CJ thinks Dermott's future lies beyond the Leafs. If he can play his way into the top 4 this year he will stick around.
Click to expand...

Great write up, thank you!
 
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I think Rielly is looking like 7-7.5 as of now but a big year could elevate him to 8-8.5
 
8+ for 8 years is a little insane. That basically kills our chances of getting a defenseman better than Rielly during this competitive window and I don't know that he's a cup-caliber #1. I hope he ends up with a short deal to cover the high escrow years and then a retirement deal at around 6-7 with most of it up front.
 
Notsince67 said:
You have evolved from your position that the leafs would be better by just removing Marner via your addition by subtraction post?
Zero credibility here kid.
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Marner was the highest paid player in the league last year in terms of salary and 7th in cap hit.

Sure he was still good last year but we're paying him to be an Art Ross/MVP caliber player and he was nowhere close to that.

With so much cap tied up in our top 3 (the 3 highest salaries in the league last year and 3,6 and 7 in cap hit) good or even great isn't enough, we need them to be elite.
 
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VanW27 said:
Marner was the highest paid player in the league last year in terms of salary and 7th in cap hit.

Sure he was still good last year but we're paying him to be an Art Ross/MVP caliber player and he was nowhere close to that.

With so much cap tied up in our top 3 (the 3 highest salaries in the league last year and 3,6 and 7 in cap hit) good or even great isn't enough, we need them to be elite.
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While I am not a fan of Marner's contract, he finished 15th in PPG each of the last 2 seasons in his age 21 and age 22 seasons.

Ovechkin is the only winger since the 04 lockout to have both a higher point total and higher PPG through their age 22 season. People assume Marner isn't going to get better moving forward and that's very likely going to be wrong.
 
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Now that all the dust has settled....
There sure was a lot of trade talk regarding Freddy earlier in the off-season. It came from everywhere, including reputable people in sports media. The Leafs management seemed to be turned off that things were leaked to the media and threw water on that fire.
Now, things have calmed down, but you wonder if something still might happen.
Carolina?
Edmonton?

What would the leafs do if they moved out Freddy?
Raanta?
Kuemper?
Anyone else?

There was simply too much speculation before to assume these trade talks are done. I wonder if there are still some deals out there to shake up our lineup?
 
LeafsOHLRangers98 said:
While I am not a fan of Marner's contract, he finished 15th in PPG each of the last 2 seasons in his age 21 and age 22 seasons.

Ovechkin is the only winger since the 04 lockout to have both a higher point total and higher PPG through their age 22 season. People assume Marner isn't going to get better moving forward and that's very likely going to be wrong.
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I'm not saying Marner isn't great or that he wont get better. That really shouldn't be a question.

It's a question of living up to that contract, and I cant imagine many people can honestly believe he did in year one of it. Will he in year 2, 3, etc.? I hope so and I think the potential is there.

If he doesn't than you have a 10.9 million cap hit that will be making 24.75 million over the last 4 years of his contract once his signing bonus is paid (6.1875 per year on average). Gotta think a non cap team getting a player like Mitch at that price would be a dream come true. If you're the Leafs you need to seriously consider the combined benefit of what you get in trade and cap space gained.
 
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Leafs would be dumb to move Marner or even Nylander anytime soon. High end talent like that is hard to acquire. They need to properly address why the team isn't making runs, rather than just defaulting to 'a core member needs to be moved'. Both Marner and Nylanders last playoff performances leave a lot to be desired, but I am confident they can both be solid playoff performers. I can't believe people are ready to run these guys out of town. A decade ago people would've begging for a guy like Marner or Nylander.

They should've got a new goalie. I highly doubt Andersen is back next year. They're going to have to address it next year, might as well have addressed it now.

The top six looks good, the defense looks competent. The bottom six is questionable and so is the goalie (in the playoffs).

With good drafting, free wallets and some bargain signings, the Leafs can run a competent bottom six, have a good top four, and a good goalie all while keeping the big four. Leafs kind of took a hit because Hunter was so bad at drafting that not much talent is breaking through when we need it.
 
The problem lies ahead more than the present. At the present time he is a competent goalie to play for TOR this season. The problem is that there's a salary cap. He might want a raise next season. TOR will likely lean toward re-signing Rielly as opposed to re-signing Andersen.
 
There likely wouldn't be much more, or anything additional at all, in the way of contract certainty with the attainable goalies from any of those three teams as trade partners. That previous chatter surrounding Andersen was definitely interesting. Perhaps Lehner was to be the focus had he reached the UFA market? I imagine that the major moves for this team have already occurred by this point though.
 
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LeafsOHLRangers98 said:
While I am not a fan of Marner's contract, he finished 15th in PPG each of the last 2 seasons in his age 21 and age 22 seasons.

Ovechkin is the only winger since the 04 lockout to have both a higher point total and higher PPG through their age 22 season. People assume Marner isn't going to get better moving forward and that's very likely going to be wrong.
Click to expand...
Consider this another like. :thumbu:
 
VanW27 said:
I'm not saying Marner isn't great or that he wont get better. That really shouldn't be a question.

It's a question of living up to that contract, and I cant imagine many people can honestly believe he did in year one of it. Will he in year 2, 3, etc.? I hope so and I think the potential is there.

If he doesn't than you have a 10.9 million cap hit that will be making 24.75 million over the last 4 years of his contract once his signing bonus is paid (6.1875 per year on average). Gotta think a non cap team getting a player like Mitch at that price would be a dream come true. If you're the Leafs you need to seriously consider the combined benefit of what you get in trade and cap space gained.
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You could question if nylander lived up to his contract after all he shit the bed on his first year 10 times worse than Mitch did.

Mitch will only get better you posters think he has peaked at age 22 have to give your head a shake
 
Bigmarycombo said:
You could question if nylander lived up to his contract after all he shit the bed on his first year 10 times worse than Mitch did.

Mitch will only get better you posters think he has peaked at age 22 have to give your head a shake
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A. Absolutely you could have, but I said nothing about Nylander. Despite what HF posters seem to believe it is possible to discuss a players performance and contract on their own merits. I dont get why any comment about Marner needs to be met with a criticism of Nylander, and vice versa.

B. Regarding your second point this is literally the first sentence of my post your quoting "I'm not saying Marner isnt great or that he won't get better. That really shouldn't be a question"

There's no question Marner is a terrific player. In terms of playmaking and creativity he's certainly a top 10, probably top 5 player in the game right now and hes only 22. But with a contract that big he needs to be even better.
 
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