Trade and Free Agency Discussion Thread - Don't Expect More Augmenting

[Kiwi]

Malgin is an NHL player. The stats and eye test all support that. He can give you depth minutes and be a fill in.
Disagree, I thought he was fine but you can't conclude much from a small sample size.

We put him on a top 6 line with the best linemates of his career and he did absolutely nothing, to the point that he was healthy scratched

He's the type of filler you find for league min when your dumpster diving in UFA

Sorry boys, I just don't see it

 

[Jozay]

Johnston on the Leafs report said the Leafs had an offer of a 2nd round pick for Johnsson from another team

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Johnston on the Leafs report said the Leafs had an offer of a 2nd round pick for Johnsson from another team

I can see why we didn't take it. Made out pretty well in this draft with a tonne of picks already and we get somebody that can contribute to the roster over the next 3 years.

 

[LeafChief]

Johnston on the Leafs report said the Leafs had an offer of a 2nd round pick for Johnsson from another team

I can see why we didn't take it. Made out pretty well in this draft with a tonne of picks already and we get somebody that can contribute to the roster over the next 3 years.

Nothing against Joey Anderson but given how easy it was to build depth in UFA, I easily take the 2nd round pick over him.

 

[Maplebeasts]

That term is pretty ugly.

Caphit is decent, but the Isles look like they're going all in over next season or two.

Yup. At the end of the deal he is a UFA. Have to be disappointed with that term if you're an Isles fan.

 

[Buds17]

I can understand why Dubas would opt for someone that already has NHL games under his belt in the return for Johnsson. Hopefully Anderson becomes an NHL regular as a Leaf, and with a ceiling of a 2nd rounder or greater. He will certainly be cap friendly over the life of that current contract if and when he does play.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Nothing against Joey Anderson but given how easy it was to build depth in UFA, I easily take the 2nd round pick over him.

The 2021 draft class was already considered fairly weak, and now scouting and development is getting absolutely destroyed by the pandemic. Leafs also just had a ton of picks this past year, and likely need cheap, quality, bottom-six players over the next few years; especially players like Anderson. We don't know how the market will evolve.

 

[4thline]

Nothing against Joey Anderson but given how easy it was to build depth in UFA, I easily take the 2nd round pick over him.

If we had drafted him with a 2016 2nd rounder in place of Grundstrom/Korshkov and had been following his progress we'd be stoked about him as a prospect today, eagerly anticipating him making the team full time.

 

[Mickey Marner]

We put him on a top 6 line with the best linemates of his career and he did absolutely nothing, to the point that he was healthy scratched

He's the type of filler you find for league min when your dumpster diving in UFA

Sorry boys, I just don't see it

His lack of size and awareness drew us a couple penalties when he was obliterated in open ice. He could always be the team martyr when we need a penalty, just throw him over the boards and feed him sueys.

 

[Mickey Marner]

If we had drafted him with a 2016 2nd rounder in place of Grundstrom/Korshkov and had been following his progress we'd be stoked about him as a prospect today, eagerly anticipating him making the team full time.

Anderson is currently 2nd in GP amongst 2016 3rd round picks. I was hoping for one of Ottawa's late 2020 2nds and we got roughly equivalent value, just with expedited development at the cost of upside. Decent return IMO.

 

[LeafChief]

The 2021 draft class was already considered fairly weak, and now scouting and development is getting absolutely destroyed by the pandemic. Leafs also just had a ton of picks this past year, and likely need cheap, quality, bottom-six players over the next few years; especially players like Anderson. We don't know how the market will evolve.

I can't remember when Johnsson got traded (pre draft or post). I assumed it was a 2020 2nd but you could be right.

If we had drafted him with a 2016 2nd rounder in place of Grundstrom/Korshkov and had been following his progress we'd be stoked about him as a prospect today, eagerly anticipating him making the team full time.

You're probably right.

 

[4thline]

Anderson is currently 2nd in GP amongst 2016 3rd round picks. I was hoping for one of Ottawa's late 2020 2nds and we got roughly equivalent value, just with expedited development at the cost of upside. Decent return IMO.

U19 Freshman NCAA season- .95 pts/gm vs. .94 pts/gm
U20 WJC- team captain, 7 in 7 vs. team captain, 4 in 7
U21 going pro. .21 NHL, .46AHL vs. .21 NHL/ .53 AHL
U22 .33 NHL, .77 AHL vs. .35 NHL, .71 AHL


That's how Anderson tracks by age against the development of well regarded mid 1st rounder Luke Kunin.

Luke Kunin with an extra year of development was just traded (albeit with some cap considerations) for a 30+ point NHL C, a high 2nd, and a 3rd.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I can't remember when Johnsson got traded (pre draft or post). I assumed it was a 2020 2nd but you could be right.

October 10th, so a few days after the 2020 draft.

 

[TheDoldrums]

 

[LeafChief]

Now that is interesting.

 

[LeafChief]

Chris Johnston on The Leaf Report (Mirtle and Siegel) today:

- Leafs D is improved with Brodie (not having to rely on Ceci/Hainsey to play on the top pair is big)
- Move Siegel is most skeptical about is Wayne Simmonds. Thinks they could have waited and got someone else at half the price (Perry?)
- CJ: Leafs really wanted Simmonds. Simmonds was in the war room on July 1
- 33% of Leafs fans voted Jimmy Vesey as least exciting signing
- CJ: Optimistic about Vesey (sees a lot of upside especially at that price)
- CJ: They've created very healthy competition at bottom of the lineup
- Lower cap hits give players more opportunity here (Joey Anderson as the example)
- Leafs had a 2nd round pick on the table for Johnsson. Leafs really liked Anderson
- Leafs have a great medical staff that can get players career back on track (attractive for UFAs - used Ennis as an example)
- CJ: Sees this as an improved roster. Healthy Morgan Rielly will be very big for the team
- Tavares was hurt coming into last season
- Backup goalie situation last year was a disaster. Will be much improved this year.
- CJ: Leafs went through the exercise of trading Andersen. Once Lehner signed in Vegas, Leafs didn't see anyone better than Andersen. They looked at Keumper but didn't see him as a huge upgrade if an upgrade at all
- Leafs have some concerns about how a potential Andersen negotiation may go
- Leafs feel Carolina leaked trade talks regarding Andersen (and Nylander in the past during the contract stalemate)
- CJ senses some frustration from the Leafs head office towards Carolina as there seems to be a trend of leaking information
- Jack Campbell has stayed in Toronto and has been working very hard. Sees a path to potentially play a lot in Toronto over the next few years
- Aaron Dell is an underrated pickup. He is good.
- Last year, Neuvirth was penciled in as the backup. He decided in camp he didn't want to play. Family didn't want to be in North America
- CJ: There is a 'secret sauce' that goes into a healthy dressing room. Leafs made good moves to bring some character and attitude into the dressing room
- Martin Marincin way down Leafs depth chart now.
- Siegel: Thornton should give the Leafs the best value.
- CJ: Vesey should give the Leafs the best value. Could play in top 6 for $900k.
- CJ: Leafs would still look at Weegar but thinks the ship has sailed. Florida wanted Dermott and Johnsson. Seems dead for now but Leafs are interested.
--CJ: Appears Nick Robertson won't make the team unless he blows it out of the water in camp. Nothing against Robertson but he can take another development year (OHL or AHL if OHL doesn't run) and Leafs can push his ELC off for another year)
- Optimal option for the Leafs is if OHL doesn't play and Robertson can play an AHL season.
- Siegel: He looked a little over matched in the playoffs but didn't look out of place
- CJ: Thinks Barabanov is a 'lowkey interesting play by the Leafs'. Thinks he will play. Zaitsev, Ozhiganov never played AHL.
- Some people in Russia are skeptical about Barabanov's ability in the NHL.
- Barabanov is already in Toronto. Making a sincere effort.
- KHL has a salary cap now and players aren't making very much money. Top players make at most 2 million USD.
- CJ would be stunned if Leafs don't re-sign Hyman.
- Mirtle says Hyman will take less to stay
- CJ: Season before Marner was RFA, they could have traded him for Werenski
- CJ thinks Dermott's future lies beyond the Leafs. If he can play his way into the top 4 this year he will stick around.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Chris Johnston on The Leaf Report (Mirtle and Siegel) today:

- Leafs D is improved with Brodie (not having to rely on Ceci/Hainsey to play on the top pair is big)
- Move Siegel is most skeptical about is Wayne Simmonds. Thinks they could have waited and got someone else at half the price (Perry?)
- CJ: Leafs really wanted Simmonds. Simmonds was in the war room on July 1
- 33% of Leafs fans voted Jimmy Vesey as least exciting signing
- CJ: Optimistic about Vesey (sees a lot of upside especially at that price)
- CJ: They've created very healthy competition at bottom of the lineup
- Lower cap hits give players more opportunity here (Joey Anderson as the example)
- Leafs had a 2nd round pick on the table for Johnsson. Leafs really liked Anderson
- Leafs have a great medical staff that can get players career back on track (attractive for UFAs - used Ennis as an example)
- CJ: Sees this as an improved roster. Healthy Morgan Rielly will be very big for the team
- Tavares was hurt coming into last season
- Backup goalie situation last year was a disaster. Will be much improved this year.
- CJ: Leafs went through the exercise of trading Andersen. Once Lehner signed in Vegas, Leafs didn't see anyone better than Andersen. They looked at Keumper but didn't see him as a huge upgrade if an upgrade at all
- Leafs have some concerns about how a potential Andersen negotiation may go
- Leafs feel Carolina leaked trade talks regarding Andersen (and Nylander in the past during the contract stalemate)
- CJ senses some frustration from the Leafs head office towards Carolina as there seems to be a trend of leaking information
- Jack Campbell has stayed in Toronto and has been working very hard. Sees a path to potentially play a lot in Toronto over the next few years
- Aaron Dell is an underrated pickup. He is good.
- Last year, Neuvirth was penciled in as the backup. He decided in camp he didn't want to play. Family didn't want to be in North America
- CJ: There is a 'secret sauce' that goes into a healthy dressing room. Leafs made good moves to bring some character and attitude into the dressing room
- Martin Marincin way down Leafs depth chart now.
- Siegel: Thornton should give the Leafs the best value.
- CJ: Vesey should give the Leafs the best value. Could play in top 6 for $900k.
- CJ: Leafs would still look at Weegar but thinks the ship has sailed. Florida wanted Dermott and Johnsson. Seems dead for now but Leafs are interested.
--CJ: Appears Nick Robertson won't make the team unless he blows it out of the water in camp. Nothing against Robertson but he can take another development year (OHL or AHL if OHL doesn't run) and Leafs can push his ELC off for another year)
- Optimal option for the Leafs is if OHL doesn't play and Robertson can play an AHL season.
- Siegel: He looked a little over matched in the playoffs but didn't look out of place
- CJ: Thinks Barabanov is a 'lowkey interesting play by the Leafs'. Thinks he will play. Zaitsev, Ozhiganov never played AHL.
- Some people in Russia are skeptical about Barabanov's ability in the NHL.
- Barabanov is already in Toronto. Making a sincere effort.
- KHL has a salary cap now and players aren't making very much money. Top players make at most 2 million USD.
- CJ would be stunned if Leafs don't re-sign Hyman.
- Mirtle says Hyman will take less to stay
- CJ: Season before Marner was RFA, they could have traded him for Werenski
- CJ thinks Dermott's future lies beyond the Leafs. If he can play his way into the top 4 this year he will stick around.

Thanks for this! Tough one with Freddie - you know they're not re-signing him and I like the idea of seeing more of Campbell. No free passes for Andersen
They've been interested in Simmonds for a little while. This is his show me contract
For me, if Marner doesn't have a kick ass season, he's the one to move.

 

[ToneDog]

Thanks for this! Tough one with Freddie - you know they're not re-signing him and I like the idea of seeing more of Campbell. No free passes for Andersen
They've been interested in Simmonds for a little while. This is his show me contract
For me, if Marner doesn't have a kick ass season, he's the one to move.

RFA Marner > Werenski but I doubt Marner @ $10.893 gets you much more than Werenski from CBJ now.

 

[Magic Man]

Chris Johnston on The Leaf Report (Mirtle and Siegel) today:

- Leafs D is improved with Brodie (not having to rely on Ceci/Hainsey to play on the top pair is big)
- Move Siegel is most skeptical about is Wayne Simmonds. Thinks they could have waited and got someone else at half the price (Perry?)
- CJ: Leafs really wanted Simmonds. Simmonds was in the war room on July 1
- 33% of Leafs fans voted Jimmy Vesey as least exciting signing
- CJ: Optimistic about Vesey (sees a lot of upside especially at that price)
- CJ: They've created very healthy competition at bottom of the lineup
- Lower cap hits give players more opportunity here (Joey Anderson as the example)
- Leafs had a 2nd round pick on the table for Johnsson. Leafs really liked Anderson
- Leafs have a great medical staff that can get players career back on track (attractive for UFAs - used Ennis as an example)
- CJ: Sees this as an improved roster. Healthy Morgan Rielly will be very big for the team
- Tavares was hurt coming into last season
- Backup goalie situation last year was a disaster. Will be much improved this year.
- CJ: Leafs went through the exercise of trading Andersen. Once Lehner signed in Vegas, Leafs didn't see anyone better than Andersen. They looked at Keumper but didn't see him as a huge upgrade if an upgrade at all
- Leafs have some concerns about how a potential Andersen negotiation may go
- Leafs feel Carolina leaked trade talks regarding Andersen (and Nylander in the past during the contract stalemate)
- CJ senses some frustration from the Leafs head office towards Carolina as there seems to be a trend of leaking information
- Jack Campbell has stayed in Toronto and has been working very hard. Sees a path to potentially play a lot in Toronto over the next few years
- Aaron Dell is an underrated pickup. He is good.
- Last year, Neuvirth was penciled in as the backup. He decided in camp he didn't want to play. Family didn't want to be in North America
- CJ: There is a 'secret sauce' that goes into a healthy dressing room. Leafs made good moves to bring some character and attitude into the dressing room
- Martin Marincin way down Leafs depth chart now.
- Siegel: Thornton should give the Leafs the best value.
- CJ: Vesey should give the Leafs the best value. Could play in top 6 for $900k.
- CJ: Leafs would still look at Weegar but thinks the ship has sailed. Florida wanted Dermott and Johnsson. Seems dead for now but Leafs are interested.
--CJ: Appears Nick Robertson won't make the team unless he blows it out of the water in camp. Nothing against Robertson but he can take another development year (OHL or AHL if OHL doesn't run) and Leafs can push his ELC off for another year)
- Optimal option for the Leafs is if OHL doesn't play and Robertson can play an AHL season.
- Siegel: He looked a little over matched in the playoffs but didn't look out of place
- CJ: Thinks Barabanov is a 'lowkey interesting play by the Leafs'. Thinks he will play. Zaitsev, Ozhiganov never played AHL.
- Some people in Russia are skeptical about Barabanov's ability in the NHL.
- Barabanov is already in Toronto. Making a sincere effort.
- KHL has a salary cap now and players aren't making very much money. Top players make at most 2 million USD.
- CJ would be stunned if Leafs don't re-sign Hyman.
- Mirtle says Hyman will take less to stay
- CJ: Season before Marner was RFA, they could have traded him for Werenski
- CJ thinks Dermott's future lies beyond the Leafs. If he can play his way into the top 4 this year he will stick around.

For those that thought Joey Anderson wasn't worth much at the time of trade, the fact that the Leafs turned down a 2nd rd. pick whether this year or next is a good sign for him going forward. They valued him more than a 2nd rd. pick. That contract could come in handy in coming years. The right player type they needed to target. It's one thing to sign a Simmonds or Bogosian for grit, but they targeted that type of player at age 22 with this move.

I am also skeptical of Barabanov's ability at the NHL level. I think he is cut based on the current assembly of players and the cap limit. Otherwise, he would probably be in and out as the 13th forward to start. Now I assume Marlies, unless they are down a man to start the season. I think he will be a fast, physically aggressive forward who can see NHL PK minutes if he see's a lot of time. But, he may or may not be limited offensively, to be determined.

Marincin is the #10 D going into the season just behind Liljegren and just ahead of Calle Rosen.

I've seen lots of people pencilling in Robertson, this should help to form some of those roster projections.

 

[Jozay]

One other interesting tidbit was that CJ thought something was fishy about the Mikeyhev contract. He didnt get too deep into it, but something was off about it. Kind of it made it seem like the negotiation didnt go great.

Seems to me like Mikeyhev wont be a long term piece. Maybe I interpreted him wrong though

 

[Kiwi]

One other interesting tidbit was that CJ thought something was fishy about the Mikeyhev contract. He didnt get too deep into it, but something was off about it. Kind of it made it seem like the negotiation didnt go great.

Seems to me like Mikeyhev wont be a long term piece. Maybe I interpreted him wrong though

It may be as simple as "this negotiation sucked" so let's get something "team friendly" now that gets him to UFA so we don't have to bother negotiating with him again

I can't see him staying either way much like Kapanen or Johnsson

 

[LaPlante94]

Chris Johnston on The Leaf Report (Mirtle and Siegel) today:

- Leafs D is improved with Brodie (not having to rely on Ceci/Hainsey to play on the top pair is big)
- Move Siegel is most skeptical about is Wayne Simmonds. Thinks they could have waited and got someone else at half the price (Perry?)
- CJ: Leafs really wanted Simmonds. Simmonds was in the war room on July 1
- 33% of Leafs fans voted Jimmy Vesey as least exciting signing
- CJ: Optimistic about Vesey (sees a lot of upside especially at that price)
- CJ: They've created very healthy competition at bottom of the lineup
- Lower cap hits give players more opportunity here (Joey Anderson as the example)
- Leafs had a 2nd round pick on the table for Johnsson. Leafs really liked Anderson
- Leafs have a great medical staff that can get players career back on track (attractive for UFAs - used Ennis as an example)
- CJ: Sees this as an improved roster. Healthy Morgan Rielly will be very big for the team
- Tavares was hurt coming into last season
- Backup goalie situation last year was a disaster. Will be much improved this year.
- CJ: Leafs went through the exercise of trading Andersen. Once Lehner signed in Vegas, Leafs didn't see anyone better than Andersen. They looked at Keumper but didn't see him as a huge upgrade if an upgrade at all
- Leafs have some concerns about how a potential Andersen negotiation may go
- Leafs feel Carolina leaked trade talks regarding Andersen (and Nylander in the past during the contract stalemate)
- CJ senses some frustration from the Leafs head office towards Carolina as there seems to be a trend of leaking information
- Jack Campbell has stayed in Toronto and has been working very hard. Sees a path to potentially play a lot in Toronto over the next few years
- Aaron Dell is an underrated pickup. He is good.
- Last year, Neuvirth was penciled in as the backup. He decided in camp he didn't want to play. Family didn't want to be in North America
- CJ: There is a 'secret sauce' that goes into a healthy dressing room. Leafs made good moves to bring some character and attitude into the dressing room
- Martin Marincin way down Leafs depth chart now.
- Siegel: Thornton should give the Leafs the best value.
- CJ: Vesey should give the Leafs the best value. Could play in top 6 for $900k.
- CJ: Leafs would still look at Weegar but thinks the ship has sailed. Florida wanted Dermott and Johnsson. Seems dead for now but Leafs are interested.
--CJ: Appears Nick Robertson won't make the team unless he blows it out of the water in camp. Nothing against Robertson but he can take another development year (OHL or AHL if OHL doesn't run) and Leafs can push his ELC off for another year)
- Optimal option for the Leafs is if OHL doesn't play and Robertson can play an AHL season.
- Siegel: He looked a little over matched in the playoffs but didn't look out of place
- CJ: Thinks Barabanov is a 'lowkey interesting play by the Leafs'. Thinks he will play. Zaitsev, Ozhiganov never played AHL.
- Some people in Russia are skeptical about Barabanov's ability in the NHL.
- Barabanov is already in Toronto. Making a sincere effort.
- KHL has a salary cap now and players aren't making very much money. Top players make at most 2 million USD.
- CJ would be stunned if Leafs don't re-sign Hyman.
- Mirtle says Hyman will take less to stay
- CJ: Season before Marner was RFA, they could have traded him for Werenski
- CJ thinks Dermott's future lies beyond the Leafs. If he can play his way into the top 4 this year he will stick around.

Interesting because I believe we tried trading down with Columbus that draft to take Werenski and they declined.

 

[stickty111]

Chris Johnston on The Leaf Report (Mirtle and Siegel) today:

- Leafs D is improved with Brodie (not having to rely on Ceci/Hainsey to play on the top pair is big)
- Move Siegel is most skeptical about is Wayne Simmonds. Thinks they could have waited and got someone else at half the price (Perry?)
- CJ: Leafs really wanted Simmonds. Simmonds was in the war room on July 1
- 33% of Leafs fans voted Jimmy Vesey as least exciting signing
- CJ: Optimistic about Vesey (sees a lot of upside especially at that price)
- CJ: They've created very healthy competition at bottom of the lineup
- Lower cap hits give players more opportunity here (Joey Anderson as the example)
- Leafs had a 2nd round pick on the table for Johnsson. Leafs really liked Anderson
- Leafs have a great medical staff that can get players career back on track (attractive for UFAs - used Ennis as an example)
- CJ: Sees this as an improved roster. Healthy Morgan Rielly will be very big for the team
- Tavares was hurt coming into last season
- Backup goalie situation last year was a disaster. Will be much improved this year.
- CJ: Leafs went through the exercise of trading Andersen. Once Lehner signed in Vegas, Leafs didn't see anyone better than Andersen. They looked at Keumper but didn't see him as a huge upgrade if an upgrade at all
- Leafs have some concerns about how a potential Andersen negotiation may go
- Leafs feel Carolina leaked trade talks regarding Andersen (and Nylander in the past during the contract stalemate)
- CJ senses some frustration from the Leafs head office towards Carolina as there seems to be a trend of leaking information
- Jack Campbell has stayed in Toronto and has been working very hard. Sees a path to potentially play a lot in Toronto over the next few years
- Aaron Dell is an underrated pickup. He is good.
- Last year, Neuvirth was penciled in as the backup. He decided in camp he didn't want to play. Family didn't want to be in North America
- CJ: There is a 'secret sauce' that goes into a healthy dressing room. Leafs made good moves to bring some character and attitude into the dressing room
- Martin Marincin way down Leafs depth chart now.
- Siegel: Thornton should give the Leafs the best value.
- CJ: Vesey should give the Leafs the best value. Could play in top 6 for $900k.
- CJ: Leafs would still look at Weegar but thinks the ship has sailed. Florida wanted Dermott and Johnsson. Seems dead for now but Leafs are interested.
--CJ: Appears Nick Robertson won't make the team unless he blows it out of the water in camp. Nothing against Robertson but he can take another development year (OHL or AHL if OHL doesn't run) and Leafs can push his ELC off for another year)
- Optimal option for the Leafs is if OHL doesn't play and Robertson can play an AHL season.
- Siegel: He looked a little over matched in the playoffs but didn't look out of place
- CJ: Thinks Barabanov is a 'lowkey interesting play by the Leafs'. Thinks he will play. Zaitsev, Ozhiganov never played AHL.
- Some people in Russia are skeptical about Barabanov's ability in the NHL.
- Barabanov is already in Toronto. Making a sincere effort.
- KHL has a salary cap now and players aren't making very much money. Top players make at most 2 million USD.
- CJ would be stunned if Leafs don't re-sign Hyman.
- Mirtle says Hyman will take less to stay
- CJ: Season before Marner was RFA, they could have traded him for Werenski
- CJ thinks Dermott's future lies beyond the Leafs. If he can play his way into the top 4 this year he will stick around.

Thanks.

Thanks for this! Tough one with Freddie - you know they're not re-signing him and I like the idea of seeing more of Campbell. No free passes for Andersen
They've been interested in Simmonds for a little while. This is his show me contract
For me, if Marner doesn't have a kick ass season, he's the one to move.

Agreed, I think Marner is the one Dubas needs to consider if it is another failed season.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Interesting bit about Neuvirth

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Nothing against Joey Anderson but given how easy it was to build depth in UFA, I easily take the 2nd round pick over him.

A 2nd round pick still only has a 34% chance to make the NHL someday. So a 1/3 shot at a flyer that can help you in 3 years or a young player that likely will be an NHL player for us already.

You need balance obviously, but I have no problem with us taking Anderson instead.