Confirmed with Link: Tortorella Fired Pt II: "The Search"

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I don't know. After watching the 24/7 series that featured the Penguins I found Bylsma to be very impressive.

Not saying Bylsma is a bad coach, just saying there's not really a lot of skill needed to perform with the current Penguins roster.

 

[Kreider Typical]

Not saying Bylsma is a bad coach, just saying there's not really a lot of skill needed to perform with the current Penguins roster.

idk... torts would just have crosby blocking shots

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

NY media failed to realize that Torts was coaching this team in the wrong direction and was completely caught with their pants down, and where scrambling for some explanation last night.

If Brooks calls up a player that will answer his call, and ask if the players where against fireing Torts, I am sure he could get silence or "on one hand" or "on the other hand". Torts and Gabby obviously couldn't get along and hated each other (Gabby's tweets are pretty noteworthy, especially the one that got deleted...).

But reading the stuff we see now and many speculate on, that the players actively convinced Slats to axe Torts, that I very much doubt. They are litterary indicating that Hank gave Slats an ultimatum. I don't buy that at all.

Fair enough, you make good points. I hope you're right.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Add another NHL personality who says Torts lost the room. Pierre McGuire mentioned it this morning on Team 1200. Sadly, he also says that Sather definitely has a job for life.

Edit: In regards to Messier being a candidate, he basically said "never say never." Maybe that has more potential than we think?

 

[Chief]

According to hockeydb.com, Bylsma had less than one season of head coaching experience in the AHL and 4 seasons as an assistant head coach (w/ the Isles and the AHL Pens) before landing the NHL Pens job. I really don't think that 54 games as an AHL head coach and the rest of that resume makes him that much more ready than a retired player like Messier.

I'm not advocating for Messier to get the job but given the high percentage of coaching failure in the NHL, I won't assume he would be worse than other candidates.

 

[Cake or Death]

The only hire I ever *****ed and moaned about was Sather. He is made of Teflon because of the perception of his being a great GM. He had one great draft year and had Messier and Gretzky dropped in his lap by other people.

Yet some believe him to be a great GM.

As much as I will agree with anyone that his performance in NY has been a bizarre mix of brilliant and brutal, with an awful lot of brutal, I thought what he did in Edmonton was outstanding. I don't remember him having Gretzky completely dropped in his lap, I recall Sather being the one who strongly advised Pocklington to go after Gretzky. I think Sather also had Gretzky living with him early on. Sather did draft three hall of famers in Fuhr, Coffey and Kurri, and some other solid players like Tikkanen, Moog and Beukeboom. The dude was also a really good coach in his day.

While zero of this translates into him potentially being a great modern GM, I don't think anything should be taken away from what he did do as a coach or GM in Edmonton. When you can simultaneously coach and general manage a team to 4 cups in 5 years, you did something right. Just my 1.4 cents.

 

[LORDE]

I think guy boucher would be a great fit. the fact that he has a sports psychology major from his college days I think would be a great fit. I can only imagine what the confidence of someone like krieder is like after torts. Also alot of players seemed to take a step backwards this year. I could see a presence like his really being a huge boon to some of the younger players development.

Also I believe he uses an offensive scheme. I know tampa had alot of offensive firepower and a god awful defense. It would be interesting to see his offensive system would do for this team considering that just about all 6 d starting next year could have pushed to be in his top 2 at points

"Guy Boucher:

A former coach of the Tampa Bay Lightning (like Tortorella), Boucher is young, energetic and is probably curious about what he can do with a world-class goalie playing behind his unique systems, including a 1-3-1 forecheck.

Boucher couldn't get the Lightning going after taking them to the Eastern Conference Finals in 2011. They had bad goaltending and a subpar defense that couldn't make up for the amount of offense Steven Stamkos and Martin St. Louis create. He was fired with roughly one month left in the 2012-13 regular season.

Lundqvist would likely be able to make his systems look good again. When the Lighting got solid goaltending from Dwayne Roloson in 2010-11, they scored 2.94 goals per game and had a power play that was better than 20 percent. The Rangers never had offensive numbers like that under Tortorella.

Rangers center Derick Brassard played under Boucher in the QMJHL."
-taken from article on nhl.com-

the articles lines up with my belief about the systems and how the rangers could benefit. I think the sports psychology background is being overlooked, especially since I believe he was the first/only coach with such a background.

I am not saying no to Boucher.

However, saying that his offense and PP #s would translate to NYR is ridiculous.

Maybe Tampa should hire Torts because his goalie won a Vezina and the defensive numbers were extraordinary.

Without mentioning personell it's ridiculous.

We don't have Stamkos, they don't have Lundqvist. Just because we swap coaches doesn't mean we will score goals and they won't allow them.

 

[chosen]

As much as I will agree with anyone that his performance in NY has been a bizarre mix of brilliant and brutal, with an awful lot of brutal, I thought what he did in Edmonton was outstanding. I don't remember him having Gretzky completely dropped in his lap, I recall Sather being the one who strongly advised Pocklington to go after Gretzky. I think Sather also had Gretzky living with him early on. Sather did draft three hall of famers in Fuhr, Coffey and Kurri, and some other solid players like Tikkanen, Moog and Beukeboom. The dude was also a really good coach in his day.

While zero of this translates into him potentially being a great modern GM, I don't think anything should be taken away from what he did do as a coach or GM in Edmonton. When you can simultaneously coach and general manage a team to 4 cups in 5 years, you did something right. Just my 1.4 cents.

He advised to go after Gretzky!!!!!

I did not know that. I stand corrected.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

The only player who has the right to express any outrage or venom towards the coach is Lundqvist - that guy is great and he deserved more goal support.

Anyone else, literally anyone, who whined about the coach is a spineless weasel.

 

[True Blue]

Just my opinion but I think it's more about the horses running the system and the architect of the team. In that regard the problem, the cancerous problem has been lingering for what almost two decades?

The fault is Sather's. How many bad contracts has he signed? Torts has been a breath of fresh air. Most success of any Rangers coach since Keenan (and who knows how things would have gone with him if he had more years). Brought an air of accountability that has not been here in nearly 20 years. Rangers fans forget quickly how these boards would weep when high priced millionaires would not be held accountable for anything. Rangers fans forget how the clamor was not to bring in high priced free agents but to build a core. Which is what Torts did.

Blame him for the PP? Fine. But who picked the Rangers to go to conference finals two years ago? No one. Coming down the stretch of this season, with Gabby and Richards being abysmal failures, they were in the hunt. Yes, the trade helped, and he got them past the first round again.

Rangers fans have very short memories. So too does Glen Sather. His 'success" comes from the middling success that Renney had and what Torts has done. Aside from that, Sather has been an unmitigated disaster. How many bad contracts has he given out, just to have them swallowed up by Dolan?

Torts was a good coach. Boo-hoo to the players that decided that he was too tough. Oh, no. He holds me responsible and is willing to bench or scratch anyone. Wow. What a concept. Poor play, means you do not play. Again, there are a scant few left around here that remember what the dark years were like. And even with Renney holding only under 25 year old players accountable.

You got rid of Torts. Ok. Who is the better coach out there? Don't give me this drivel about Messier. Bryan Trottier was only an assistant and look how he turned out. Messier does not belong behind the bench. Who out there is capable of taking this team and doing with it what Tortarella could not do?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

According to hockeydb.com, Bylsma had less than one season of head coaching experience in the AHL and 4 seasons as an assistant head coach (w/ the Isles and the AHL Pens) before landing the NHL Pens job. I really don't think that 54 games as an AHL head coach and the rest of that resume makes him that much more ready than a retired player like Messier.

I'm not advocating for Messier to get the job but given the high percentage of coaching failure in the NHL, I won't assume he would be worse than other candidates.

If Messier had the 2 best centers in the world to walk into, it would be a lot easier of a situation.

 

[GAGLine]

According to hockeydb.com, Bylsma had less than one season of head coaching experience in the AHL and 4 seasons as an assistant head coach (w/ the Isles and the AHL Pens) before landing the NHL Pens job. I really don't think that 54 games as an AHL head coach and the rest of that resume makes him that much more ready than a retired player like Messier.

I do. 4 years as an assistant at the NHL and AHL levels is a lot of experience, especially when comparing it to Messier's 0 games of coaching experience at any level and in any capacity.

If Messier wants to be a coach, then he needs to learn to coach at a lower level first, or start out as an assistant and work his way up. Given that he has spent the last few years in the front office, supposedly learning to be a GM, I can't see why he would suddenly change directions now and become a coach.

I doubt that he is a candidate for the job. It's likely just media speculation.

 

[Tomas Sandstrom 28]

Sather is one of the senior members of the Good ol' Boys network in the NHL. I wouldn't expect the Rangers to hire an out-of-the-box coach. Unless it is Gorton calling the shots - who knows?

Also, Just a thought on Messier: One of the problems with hiring a guy like Messier to coach is that, at some point in the future you're going to have to fire him. We all know how the last few years of his playing career limped on - do we really want a similar situation with the coach?

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

The only player who has the right to express any outrage or venom towards the coach is Lundqvist - that guy is great and he deserved more goal support.

Anyone else, literally anyone, who whined about the coach is a spineless weasel.

Ironically, Lundqvist will be the one hurt most by a coaching change. He was very well insulated by the 6-goalie system. If he thought this season was difficult when the guys weren't as strong in their own end as last season, wait until he has to face a lot of high quality shots in a night under a more open system.

It going to be....interesting.

 

[Bluenote13]

If Messier had the 2 best centers in the world to walk into, it would be a lot easier of a situation.

What was Lundqvist to Renney and Tort's W/L record, a blip on the radar ?

 

[Stepanformayor*]

Mark my word........ Paul Maurice will be the head coach here!!

 

[Don Chytil]

Relevant user name is relevant.

Pure speculation - What if the players were unhappy about the way Torts handled the Staal situation? It sure seemed like Torts wanted him in the lineup and Marc, as he said, "pulled himself out". When McD said it was a courageous (don't remember the exact word he used) move by Staal, that was telling to me. It seemed like the players were siding with other players instead of siding with the coach.

If McD expressed displeasure with the way Torts called him out and insinuated that it might affect his re-signing, Sather has to take notice. IMO he's our most valuable asset right now (contract, age, etc taken into account).

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

The only player who has the right to express any outrage or venom towards the coach is Lundqvist - that guy is great and he deserved more goal support.

Anyone else, literally anyone, who whined about the coach is a spineless weasel.

now this is BS, the offense was cut out from these guys, but only Hank can express any dislike for the coach? no one should be able to give an ultimatum. it was time for Torts to go, but we did also make the playoffs 4 of his 5 years. The point is why should Lundqvist get favortism when the offensive abilities were cut out from the players performing

 

[Synergy27]

Torts was a good coach. Boo-hoo to the players that decided that he was too tough. Oh, no. He holds me responsible and is willing to bench or scratch anyone. Wow. What a concept. Poor play, means you do not play. Again, there are a scant few left around here that remember what the dark years were like. And even with Renney holding only under 25 year old players accountable.

I don't think anyone here is/was complaining about the fact that Torts' held players accountable. It's not like the guy was an unmitigated disaster in every possible aspect. He without a doubt brought some very positive things to the table.

I think the frustrations that various players MIGHT BE voicing are probably more along the lines of what a lot of us fans are complaining about: blocking shots, collapsing down low, letting the game come to them, etc.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

The only player who has the right to express any outrage or venom towards the coach is Lundqvist - that guy is great and he deserved more goal support.

Anyone else, literally anyone, who whined about the coach is a spineless weasel.

It depends on whether it was "whining", as you put it, or legitimate concern about the philosophy of this team moving forward.

I'm felling like it's the latter more so than anything.

 

[Synergy27]

Relevant user name is relevant.

Pure speculation - What if the players were unhappy about the way Torts handled the Staal situation? It sure seemed like Torts wanted him in the lineup and Marc, as he said, "pulled himself out". When McD said it was a courageous (don't remember the exact word he used) move by Staal, that was telling to me. It seemed like the players were siding with other players instead of siding with the coach.

If McD expressed displeasure with the way Torts called him out and insinuated that it might affect his re-signing, Sather has to take notice. IMO he's our most valuable asset right now (contract, age, etc taken into account).

Excellent point, and something I did not consider. I really do not think this boils down to having a room full of lazy bums who don't want to be held accountable. These players, and we fans, have some legitimate gripes.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

now this is BS, the offense was cut out from these guys, but only Hank can express any dislike for the coach? no one should be able to give an ultimatum. it was time for Torts to go, but we did also make the playoffs 4 of his 5 years. The point is why should Lundqvist get favortism when the offensive abilities were cut out from the players performing

Because the notion that these players were shackled from producing offense is just a sad myth thats being perpetrated as an excuse for the team's poor play. If anything, this team had a handful of players unwilling to buy into the sacrifice needed to play for Torts. Last year's team bought into it hook line and sinker, and they were a much better team as a result.

One of the ugliest situations in sports is having a small group of players thinking they are better than they actually are...thinking their coaches views limit their abilities in some way. Sather did what he felt he needed to do with Tortorella -- I hope his next order of business is ridding the team of these spineless whiners who did more complaining than sacrificing on the ice. He did it with Gomez and Zherdev in '09, in a situation with Renney that is eerily similar to this one.

 

[GAGLine]

Ironically, Lundqvist will be the one hurt most by a coaching change. He was very well insulated by the 6-goalie system. If he thought this season was difficult when the guys weren't as strong in their own end as last season, wait until he has to face a lot of high quality shots in a night under a more open system.

It going to be....interesting.

I disagree. Even with this system, Lundqvist still faced a lot of high quality scoring chances. How many times did a bad pinch lead to an odd-man rush? How many great chances did the bruins have? With a more offensive system, we might actually spend more time in the offensive zone than the defensive one for a change.

How have the Giants traditionally won? By controlling the clock with the running game. They haven't done it as much in recent years, but the idea is to keep the other team's offense off the field. If the Rangers are more aggressive, play more of a puck possession game and have a more consistent forecheck, then the amount of offensive opportunities against are likely to be less.

 

[I Am Chariot]

Just read that transcript of the conference call. Sathers sly vague non-answers to who the future coach may be makes me think that guys season isn't over yet.

So which of the 4 teams left have an assistant ready to move up to head coach?

 

[LORDE]

Warning: this is a long one. Haven't had a chance to join in the fray for a while now (nor am I up to speed on all of the rumors and hearsay about why Johnny Cakes got fired and who is going to replace him), but here's my two cents on this saga:

For most of his tenure, I've been totally split on Tortorella. Loved some of the things about him, detested some of the others. Can't help but think he is at least partially to blame for the lack of offense, particularly on the PP.

Still, I think it is absurd to fire a coach who took the team to the conference finals last season and didn't have a training camp, a big part of his whole system. You can't play his (over)demanding system without being in stellar shape. It helped them overachieve last season, and the lack of it led them to underachieve this season.

IF Lundqvist was the reason, then fine. I'm not going to doubt the best goaltender of his generation, and easily the biggest reason this franchise has had any success, as limited as it has been, since the lockout. If it is a Dolan/Sather reaction to some sort of media or fan pressure, or a suspicion of it, then it is a total overreaction.

No, I ultimately don't think that this team and this coach were going to win a championship, but is that necessarily going to change if the man behind the bench is different? I don't believe so. The problem is bigger than the coach; the problem is with the roster, and it always has been. That's always been the story. Under Tortorella, under Renney, under every other stooge or doom-destined man to coach a roster that has never, ever been properly constructed.

You can't win in this league without elite playmaking talent, creativity and depth down the middle. The Rangers still lack that, and that is not a dig at Stepan. He's a very, very good young player. But he's not that guy, not yet anyway. I'd give Richards one more season to find his game. That cap space isn't going to improve the team right now. Regardless, even if Richards turns it around, he's not that guy at this point in his career either.

The lack of such an integral piece of the puzzle was not solved with the acquisition of Rick Nash. Pure goalscorers like him, who are more or less one dimensional, are not players to build teams around. They are the guy you pair with those elite play developers. Sather, as usual, doesn't seem to grasp that Nash is in many ways similar to Marian Gaborik. Sure, he's bigger and stronger, more durable, and probably more effective. But like Gabs, he isn't notable in any way other than scoring. In the playoffs, he is not that difficult to eliminate as a consistent threat. He's predictable, and he doesn't do much besides try to force his way past numerous defenders, with and without the puck. It is no easier a task than Gaborik needing to find time and space so that he can use his best assets, his speed and shot.

Again, the problem lies with the man responsible for assembling this rag tag bunch. A ton of things to like about them, yes, and certainly a ton of players to admire; but they just aren't as good as the best teams in the league. Glen Sather has failed once again. When discussing the coaching change, he talked about how every season, the goal is to win a Stanley Cup, and how they failed to achieve that this season.

Glen Sather has had many, many tries to achieve that goal. Far more than almost any other peer in hockey or any other sport. He has never succeeded. The people he has brought in have never succeeded. Sather has produced largely mediocrity, at best, and probably would have achieved much less if not for Henrik Lundqvist.

How many seasons have to be wasted? How many coaches have to be hired and fired? How many trades? How many free agent signings? How many roster overhauls? How many chances can one man possibly get, how many mistakes can one man possibly make, how many times can one man fail to do his job before he loses it?

Sather again (and at this point I have lost track of how many times) deserves to lose his job. The man is incompetent. He does not understand how the game is played in 2013, which is why he has failed to win anything in 23 years (and without the best player of all-time and/or a team full of Hall of Famers). He is an embarrassment.

I know he won't get fired, though, so as far as who he should hire to replace John Tortorella, my pick would easily be Guy Boucher. Please, please, please don't hire another old timer or croney. Give someone with a fresh perspective a chance. Boucher got screwed in Tampa Bay. When he had the pieces, he did fine. His goaltending and defense sucked after that.

The focus now is on getting the offense to play, but that doesn't mean you want to stop being a great defensive team. Boucher can get this team to be at least tolerable offensively, IMO, while maintaining a top-10 defense. This is a smart, educated guy who understands the game at a deeper level. This team does not need any more motivation, Tortorella style or not. These guys are motivated, especially the captain and the best player. What they need is a tactician. They need to play smart, not just hard. Ron Wilson wouldn't be a bad second choice. Pretty indifferent about Vigneault. I think the Canucks should have won a championship during his tenure; they had the roster for it. Wasn't a huge fan of the job he did there.

Super post. Says it all.