Speculation: "Toronto's forward lines look like Swiss cheese" - Jay Rosehill

[therealkoho]

Leafs Morning Take Podcast

July 18th podcast 11:30 into the show

Knies Matthews Marner
Robertson Tavares Nylander
Cowen Domi Jarnkrok
McMann Kampf Reaves

Minton, Dewer, and Holmberg out

"Too many no name guys to do something special"

'The defense looks solid. The forward group looks like Swiss cheese to me".

I think I agree.

Didn't see it but was that the point at which Alberga smacked the top of his head on the underside of the desk?

I'm also wondering what Nick's thinkjng I hope he got his resume into SN to join his good ol buddy ol pal Freidge. They'll have to rename the show though to 22 thoughts.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Finally??
Many have been saying that for years but it's just being overwhelmed right now by the dozen or so redundantly blaming everything on Marner.

Its not about blaming Marner for everything. We cannot pay him what he wants and quite frankly he isnt worth what he wants. We also cant give him a nmc. He is a rw, not the most important position. These guys have found every way imaginable to lose. The leafs havent won a cup since 1967, when is enough? After one more year?

 

[ACC1224]

Its not about blaming Marner for everything. We cannot pay him what he wants and quite frankly he isnt worth what he wants. We also cant give him a nmc. He is a rw, not the most important position. These guys have found every way imaginable to lose. The leafs havent won a cup since 1967, when is enough? After one more year?

Maybe you're not blaming him for everything but there are many that are which is pretty crazy.

We don't know what he wants or even if the Leafs want to retain him but logic dictates Nylanders contract is the floor

They just did that (signed rw) with the lessor player though.

IMO, blaming todays Team for all the failures of the past is a little silly.

 

[LeafEgo]

Maybe you're not blaming him for everything but there are many that are which is pretty crazy.

We don't know what he wants or even if the Leafs want to retain him but logic dictates Nylanders contract is the floor

They just did that (signed rw) with the lessor player though.

IMO, blaming todays Team for all the failures of the past is a little silly.

Even if you think Willy is the lessor player, his contract would only be the floor if his salary is market price - no overpayment. The competition for Marners services is against the other teams - his only alternatives.

Personally think Willy was overpaid somewhere up to 1M. If the Leafs sign Marner instead of letting him walk there shouldn't be any overpayment attached. The circumstances were different when Willy signed as now we already have a double digit RW locked up long term.

 

[Mess]

Even if you think Willy is the lessor player, his contract would only be the floor if his salary is market price - no overpayment. The competition for Marners services is against the other teams - his only alternatives.

Personally think Willy was overpaid somewhere up to 1M. If the Leafs sign Marner instead of letting him walk there shouldn't be any overpayment attached. The circumstances were different when Willy signed as now we already have a double digit RW locked up long term.

Marner's 2nd contract was at UFA rates and a vast overpayment, while Nylander at $7 mil after his holdout would still be considered RFA rates for a 2nd contract.

Willy in coming off a top 10 overall scoring season in his contract year. (Matthews coming off 69 goal and #6 overall season) ..

These are the 2 players of the Core 4 that Treliving has invested in which are the teams TOP performers both regular season & playoffs.

The other 2 are TBD and if they didn't have NMC they might already be discussed more as fielding offers.

Treliving hasn't given any indication that either player will be re-signed or are simply playing out the season behind their NMC.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I blame Marner for everything.

It's all his fault. If you're looking for someone to blame, blame him, blame Marner. It's not called scapegoating when he really is the best one to blame.

And if not boo him anyway.

There needs to be a focal point for the fans wrath. The alternative is to either boo no one or boo everyone. As much as I like the latter I have a feeling the majority of fans prefer the former.

So instead just pile on Marner every time he touches the puck.

He brought this on himself. Constantly waging war with coaches, media, fans, and now even his own teammates. Anybody who has denied he's a locker room cancer no longer has a leg to stand on.

The evidence is so clearly against him he deserves to be run out of town.

 

[therealkoho]

Domi Matthews Nylander

Knies JT Marner

Cowan Kadri Jarnkrok

Dewar Minten McMann

Holmberg Reaves

*Kampf + Robertson for Kadri 20% retention

 

[JetLeaf]

I blame Marner for everything.

It's all his fault. If you're looking for someone to blame, blame him, blame Marner. It's not called scapegoating when he really is the best one to blame.

And if not boo him anyway.

There needs to be a focal point for the fans wrath. The alternative is to either boo no one or boo everyone. As much as I like the latter I have a feeling the majority of fans prefer the former.

So instead just pile on Marner every time he touches the puck.

He brought this on himself. Constantly waging war with coaches, media, fans, and now even his own teammates. Anybody who has denied he's a locker room cancer no longer has a leg to stand on.

The evidence is so clearly against him he deserves to be run out of town.

Rock on buddy

 

[darrylsittler27]

Maybe you're not blaming him for everything but there are many that are which is pretty crazy.

We don't know what he wants or even if the Leafs want to retain him but logic dictates Nylanders contract is the floor

They just did that (signed rw) with the lessor player though.

IMO, blaming todays Team for all the failures of the past is a little silly.

Many have been patient after losses to Montreal and Colombus and now last year where he had minimal impact in the playoffs feel it's time to do different things with that money. This team has holes and question marks. The defense we are still unclear if we need a true number one stud and if Woll gets injured a number one goalie has more impact. Our C is doomed if Mathews gets injured. With Marner and Tavares money those holes get filled. We are a winger factory and if you get a very good goalie plus a number one dman that 40 goals a year not going in. Marner to many is not a big game player, just an overpaid reg season scorer. Losing in the first round while giving him NMC is just dumb.

 

[thusk]

Marner's 2nd contract was at UFA rates and a vast overpayment, while Nylander at $7 mil after his holdout would still be considered RFA rates for a 2nd contract.

Willy in coming off a top 10 overall scoring season in his contract year. (Matthews coming off 69 goal and #6 overall season) ..

View attachment 899950

These are the 2 players of the Core 4 that Treliving has invested in which are the teams TOP performers both regular season & playoffs.

The other 2 are TBD and if they didn't have NMC they might already be discussed more as fielding offers.

Treliving hasn't given any indication that either player will be re-signed or are simply playing out the season behind their NMC.

Depending what's you considerating as top performer

Since they are in the NHL
season

playoff

last 3
season

playoff

goal against when on the ice since they are in NHL at EV
Marner
season 2,94/60 min played
playoff 2,32 goal every 60 played

nylander
season 2,95/60
playoff 3,23 goal/60

last 3
marner
season 3,00/60
playoff 1,29 goal/60

nylander
season 3,46/60
playoff 3,22 /60

% of time at EV against opposite top 6

marner
2022 tb 79%
2023 tb 77%
2023 fla 77%
2024 bos 81 %

nylander
2022 tb 63%
2023 tb 65%
2023 fla 56%
2024 bos 66%


Overall we just taking the playoff, He was playing a tougher matchup, allowed 2,5X less goal and scoring basically at the same range in term of pts...and no playing with Matthews is not what's explaining everything.

 

[thusk]

.

He brought this on himself. Constantly waging war with coaches, media, fans, and now even his own teammates. Anybody who has denied he's a locker room cancer no longer has a leg to stand on.

this entire post is a joke but let's just talk about this.

Constantly waring with coach?!?!?! The only thing he ever had with coach was with Babcock with the incident every one heard ( who was just completly stupid by Babcock )... Marner is a player loved by every coach...

With his own teammate??? he's the 1st guy to welcome the rookie in the team and made them feel confortable. Just ask to Cowan... he texted him after his ohl mvp, western conference win, playoff mvp and ohl championship. He was completly mentorship Cowan, that's the definition of a leader, not a cancer... He had a great relation with basically everyone in this team...

When you don't know what you're talking about, sometime you're better to don't talk at all

 

[Mess]

Depending what's you considerating as top performer

Since they are in the NHL
season
View attachment 900213
playoff
View attachment 900214

last 3
season
View attachment 900220

Overall we just taking the playoff, He was playing a tougher matchup, allowed 2,5X less goal and scoring basically at the same range in term of pts...and no playing with Matthews is not what's explaining everything.

One of these players was making $7 mil AAV and the other one $10.9 mil AAV .. Do you consider Marner worth almost + $4 mil more than Willy based on production?

Stats can't be similar because the Cap hits are not.

 

[Nineteen67]

this entire post is a joke but let's just talk about this.

Constantly waring with coach?!?!?! The only thing he ever had with coach was with Babcock with the incident every one heard ( who was just completly stupid by Babcock )... Marner is a player loved by every coach...

With his own teammate??? he's the 1st guy to welcome the rookie in the team and made them feel confortable. Just ask to Cowan... he texted him after his ohl mvp, western conference win, playoff mvp and ohl championship. He was completly mentorship Cowan, that's the definition of a leader, not a cancer... He had a great relation with basically everyone in this team...

When you don't know what you're talking about, sometime you're better to don't talk at all

I seem to remember Keefe walking back comments he made about the elite players after a benching and some poor play.
Were told Berube won’t be walking back anything he says, let’s see how long that lasts.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I seem to remember Keefe walking back comments he made about the elite players after a benching and some poor play.
Were told Berube won’t be walking back anything he says, let’s see how long that lasts.

It was Marner he benched too was it not?

They had a "closed door" discussion and next thing you know Keefe is grovelling again.

 

[Nineteen67]

It was Marner he benched too was it not?

They had a "closed door" discussion and next thing you know Keefe is grovelling again.

I think it was……let’s see if it happens under Berube!

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I think it was……let’s see if it happens under Berube!

Oh it most definitely was lol...

 

[thusk]

One of these players was making $7 mil AAV and the other one $10.9 mil AAV .. Do you consider Marner worth almost + $4 mil more than Willy based on production?

Stats can't be similar because the Cap hits are not.

That's doesn't change anything in what they are as player and what they bring to the team on the ice. $$$ have a impact on paper and you're been able to build the teama round, but having absolutly no impact of how you playing on the ice... and nylander is not a 7M player anymore...

I seem to remember Keefe walking back comments he made about the elite players after a benching and some poor play.
Were told Berube won’t be walking back anything he says, let’s see how long that lasts.

Yeah it's happening... Cooper already did a similar thing with his core exemple by benching them a complete 3rd period his core. That doesn't they having a bad relationship or they was poison in the locker room.

 

[Nineteen67]

That's doesn't change anything in what they are as player and what they bring to the team on the ice. $$$ have a impact on paper and you're been able to build the teama round, but having absolutly no impact of how you playing on the ice... and nylander is not a 7M player anymore...




Yeah it's happening... Cooper already did a similar thing with his core exemple by benching them a complete 3rd period his core. That doesn't they having a bad relationship or they was poison in the locker room.

Did cooper walk back his comments?

 

[thusk]

Did cooper walk back his comments?

What i'm saying, it's just kind of thing coach trying to do to wake up their player. Do you really think than other coach never do or try anything to wake up their player when they needed to?

The difference is nobody in Tampa making a story about it. Cooper did it, they talked a little bit about it for next 24 and after nobody even talk about it again.... In Toronto do the same exact thing, everybody will talk about it everywhere next 24 hours and the next month, people will still talking about it. So do you think you will react the same way. You can't coach the same way and you can't deal with thr media the same way, it's a reality.

What's coach say in looker room and on media, it's not the same thing and nobody know what they are saying in the locker room...

 

[ULF_55]

With his own teammate??? he's the 1st guy to welcome the rookie in the team and made them feel confortable. Just ask to Cowan... he texted him after his ohl mvp, western conference win, playoff mvp and ohl championship. He was completly mentorship Cowan, that's the definition of a leader, not a cancer... He had a great relation with basically everyone in this team...

Hmmm?

marner - London Knight
Cowan - London Knight

 

[Nineteen67]

What i'm saying, it's just kind of thing coach trying to do to wake up their player. Do you really think than other coach never do or try anything to wake up their player when they needed to?

The difference is nobody in Tampa making a story about it. Cooper did it, they talked a little bit about it for next 24 and after nobody even talk about it again.... In Toronto do the same exact thing, everybody will talk about it everywhere next 24 hours and the next month, people will still talking about it. So do you think you will react the same way. You can't coach the same way and you can't deal with thr media the same way, it's a reality.

What's coach say in looker room and on media, it's not the same thing and nobody know what they are saying in the locker room...

I think all coaches call out players, have for years, and will continue. It’s very rare for them to walk it back later because of hurt feelings and is even worse when the culprit plays disinterested in the playoffs.

Let’s see what Berube does.

 

[thusk]

Hmmm?

marner - London Knight
Cowan - London Knight

and... he don't have to take to do this... Kadri was from London too and he never did anything like this.

And imagine if he's takinf time for mentoring young player because he was coming from the same junior team,you can have a pretty great idea of how he should react with young player in his actual team...

I think all coaches call out players, have for years, and will continue. It’s very rare for them to walk it back later because of hurt feelings and is even worse when the culprit plays disinterested in the playoffs.

Let’s see what Berube does.

Like i said, pressure coming from a city like Toronto... I'm pretty sure exemple if he would be in NJ when he did it, he would not react the same way after.

And anyway every time after all those kind of situation, sure every coach will talk about it in private with those player and make thing clear before anything becoming public. For me it's a kind of story created with absolutly nothing.

 

[ULF_55]

and... he don't have to take to do this... Kadri was from London too and he never did anything like this.

And imagine if he's takinf time for mentoring young player because he was coming from the same junior team,you can have a pretty great idea of how he should react with young player in his actual team...

 

[ThrowDemTongs]

I'm gonna go get a Don Johnson cut too now

 

[Nineteen67]

and... he don't have to take to do this... Kadri was from London too and he never did anything like this.

And imagine if he's takinf time for mentoring young player because he was coming from the same junior team,you can have a pretty great idea of how he should react with young player in his actual team...



Like i said, pressure coming from a city like Toronto... I'm pretty sure exemple if he would be in NJ when he did it, he would not react the same way after.

And anyway every time after all those kind of situation, sure every coach will talk about it in private with those player and make thing clear before anything becoming public. For me it's a kind of story created with absolutly nothing.

The story is the players whined and the coach walk back his comments. That doesn’t happen in very many places, but with the poor weak media fans in Toronto, it becomes acceptable.