Pre-Game Talk: Toronto VS Edmonton (saturday game)

[Burnie97]

You won't be if Gustaffson is playing over Holl. He is Gardiner V2.

I'll take my chances over Holl. The give aways or missed assignments are the same but at least they can play well offensively.

Sorry tried to stick up for Holl the odd time but we forsure have 6 better d man now.

What???

This is crazy... At least Holl is out. But Simmonds? Are we expecting to have scrums/fights? Does he even fight anymore?

Simmonds was a place holder ... pretty sure.

lol

not sure if you saw the NHL awards last season. When Matthews was given the Hart, the camera panned on McDavid and he looked pissed. So I guess he decided this year he is going to leave no doubts. he is leading in goals and points this season.

also a little nugget from the NHL awards from last season was how the presenter (forget his name) made fun of the Leafs as the show went off the air. I really thought Matthews would take that to heart and completely destroy the NHL this season. Oh well....

It would of made been a nice story if Matthews did that but I think he's playing hurt. He's scoring like he did when he had that wrist injury a couple years back... not enough... but funny he's still a ppg. It's not the terrible season people want to say it is... and just shy of 30 with an outside shot at 40. If he had around 100 goals in 2 seasons I can't really hate that. Which he will.

I just want the cup. Matthews scores a bunch GWs to win a bunch of games in the playoffs that's more important. Its possible and if that happens ppl will forget regular season achievements quickly.

If we win on Saturday, is this our SC? I mean beating the anointed 2023 Cup champs would be pretty awesome

I know... sarcasm... but It's the other way around.

Every canadian team that plays the Leafs... its always their Stanley cup. Ontario Players are on every team and they come to play in Scotia bank looking to put on a show. See McDavid.

 

[therealkoho]

It was a good game. I'm hoping that we wear out the Bruins like that in the 2nd round

Watch 3 Senator games to get a handle on them, if they're able to climb into that last playoff spot and they might, we won't see the Bruins, and instead we'll have a new installment of the Battle of Ontario. Once we get by the Lightning, they've been horrible lately

 

[Fogelhund]

All he had to do was lift Point's stick and that wouldn't have been a goal. Could've been a different and more favourable outcome that game.

Lots could have been different.

If Kerfoot doesn't do a drop pass, to Brodie skating the other way... Tampa doesn't score their first goal... and there isn't OT.

If Mikheyev doesn't do a bad pass on the PP, they don't get a short-handed goal... and there isn't OT.

We have possession, with no puck pressure... Marner decides to try a home run pass, and screws it up.. Why he doesn't do the safe play, who knows? He screws up the pass though, and the puck is coming the other way. Matthews falls down on the play. Marner whiffs on his player, and let's him by, and stands and watches.
Giordano allows a guy to go straight to the net, and falls down. Nobody rotates, Campbell doesn't make a save. But to declare that play is on Holl only???

Seriously, to blame this games solely on Holl is beyond ridiculous.. Marner screwed up TWICE, on the same play.. but it's Holl's fault!!!

What's even more entertaining, is the same people will then use the same game, as evidence that Kerfoot lost the game for us.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Absolutely, we need to prioritize the development of 31 year old UFA Justin Holl over the development of 23 year old Jiljegren, 23 year Sandin, and 24 year old Timmins now....

Holl is fine left as the 3RHD, but we know that that's not how Keefe uses him. It's not Holl's fault that he is being put into a role that he doesn't belong in. That I put squarely on Keefe. Adding to it that Keefe does it at the expense of our younger Defenders, and it just makes it worse all around.

We berate Babcock for how he played the veterans and seemed blind to developing and playing our younger players who were a part of the long-term plan, yet Keefe gets a free pass for his own biases and narrow vision.

At least call it both ways, rather than point to one and ignore the other.

Little different when one of them is playing Marleau over our superstar forwards in the playoffs in a year where they’re 21 year olds on ELCs not expected to win a cup vs playing a safer vet in an all-in year no?

Don’t get me wrong I’d rather play Liljegren in bigger minutes than Holl because he’s a flat out better player in 95% of game situations. Keefe has his warts and I wouldn’t mind trying a new face as coach, but it’s a false equivalence.

 

[LeafSteel]

I don't mind seeing Gus but any Rielly/Gus pairings will be an adventure. Two of our best players this year Tavares/Bunting on a broken up line? 7 D again? Going to have to start calling the coach Sheldon O'Keefe after the ale if he doesn't smarten up.

Genuinely wondering if any of the other teams that added players at the TDL gone with 11/7 or is Keefe just:
a: super duper smart and waaaaaaaay ahead of everyone else in the NHL and is a trailblazer ahead of his time.
b: super duper dumb and doesn't know how to put together a roster with the players that he has, and that practice isn't enough time to try to figure it out, so we now have to try stuff in games too?

Playing 11/7 tells me we aren't valuing actually winning the game against a playoff calibre team like Edmonton, and leaving our forwards precariously short. Last time, Tavares got rocked and Matthews took a huge slapper off the leg. Imagine both can't come back and we are down to 9 forwards. Not great planning.

Anyways, I'm done ragging on Keefe today.

Hoping our guys come out and speed bag McDavid and the Oilers, and that we stay healthy in the process.

Go Leafs Go!!!!

 

[Nhlpowerweek]

Like we are going for tomorrow's game totally gunned up and ready to roll & rock!!

The oilers are going to be like Jerry on that one seinfeld episode.. when he ordered at the restaurant with an *echoe*: "Just a salad..... Just a salad...... Just a salad........."

 

[Clark4Ever]

I don't mind seeing Gus but any Rielly/Gus pairings will be an adventure. Two of our best players this year Tavares/Bunting on a broken up line? 7 D again? Going to have to start calling the coach Sheldon O'Keefe after the ale if he doesn't smarten up.

I just can't fathom why Keefe would go with this approach. At this rate, with the constant line juggling and 7 defencemen, how are the players going to develop a sense of cohesion going into the playoffs?

There's been virtually no consistency with the lineup since the trade deadline.

 

[Hellcat]

Genuinely wondering if any of the other teams that added players at the TDL gone with 11/7 or is Keefe just:
a: super duper smart and waaaaaaaay ahead of everyone else in the NHL and is a trailblazer ahead of his time.
b: super duper dumb and doesn't know how to put together a roster with the players that he has, and that practice isn't enough time to try to figure it out, so we now have to try stuff in games too?

Playing 11/7 tells me we aren't valuing actually winning the game against a playoff calibre team like Edmonton, and leaving our forwards precariously short. Last time, Tavares got rocked and Matthews took a huge slapper off the leg. Imagine both can't come back and we are down to 9 forwards. Not great planning.

Anyways, I'm done ragging on Keefe today.

Hoping our guys come out and speed bag McDavid and the Oilers, and that we stay healthy in the process.

Go Leafs Go!!!!

Um Alex for $500, I'm going to go with " What is option B?"

To be fair, I want Keefe fired as much as the next guy but the sports science guys and the analytic guys heavily influence the line up / lines as much as the coach does. They do all their math sciencey stuff, then tell the GM and coach, these guys play best together, this guys VO2 level is super high you can run him 20% more ATOI than normal, so on and so on. I question Keefes inability to adjust mid game. He's like a horse with blinders on, straight forward is his only plan. I miss the days of Quinn and Burns, esp Burns, those guys were great coaches.

 

[Notsince67]

I just can't fathom why Keefe would go with this approach. At this rate, with the constant line juggling and 7 defencemen, how are the players going to develop a sense of cohesion going into the playoffs?

There's been virtually no consistency with the lineup since the trade deadline.

It isn't only that. Marner played 26 minutes last game. Only an idiot runs their horse hard leading up to the Kentucky derby. I get they were behind but they can't continue to do shit like that and risk injury

 

[Seanaconda]

Genuinely wondering if any of the other teams that added players at the TDL gone with 11/7 or is Keefe just:
a: super duper smart and waaaaaaaay ahead of everyone else in the NHL and is a trailblazer ahead of his time.
b: super duper dumb and doesn't know how to put together a roster with the players that he has, and that practice isn't enough time to try to figure it out, so we now have to try stuff in games too?

Playing 11/7 tells me we aren't valuing actually winning the game against a playoff calibre team like Edmonton, and leaving our forwards precariously short. Last time, Tavares got rocked and Matthews took a huge slapper off the leg. Imagine both can't come back and we are down to 9 forwards. Not great planning.

Anyways, I'm done ragging on Keefe today.

Hoping our guys come out and speed bag McDavid and the Oilers, and that we stay healthy in the process.

Go Leafs Go!!!!

The oilers often go 11/7 . It's not really a big deal to throw one of their stars an extra shift now and again so the forwards don't really suffer and Their dmen have had success doing it. If need be a dman can always play as a 4th liner if they have to.

 

[stickty111]

Absolutely, we need to prioritize the development of 31 year old UFA Justin Holl over the development of 23 year old Jiljegren, 23 year Sandin, and 24 year old Timmins now....

Holl is fine left as the 3RHD, but we know that that's not how Keefe uses him. It's not Holl's fault that he is being put into a role that he doesn't belong in. That I put squarely on Keefe. Adding to it that Keefe does it at the expense of our younger Defenders, and it just makes it worse all around.

We berate Babcock for how he played the veterans and seemed blind to developing and playing our younger players who were a part of the long-term plan, yet Keefe gets a free pass for his own biases and narrow vision.

At least call it both ways, rather than point to one and ignore the other.

Okay but that wasn't the point. You seemed to imply Babcock benching Holl for an entire season was fine because Babcock was around the team so he knew. You can use that for Keefe too as well.
I don't see Keefe getting a free pass. He's getting rightfully criticized for his decisions.

 

[stickty111]

I just can't fathom why Keefe would go with this approach. At this rate, with the constant line juggling and 7 defencemen, how are the players going to develop a sense of cohesion going into the playoffs?

There's been virtually no consistency with the lineup since the trade deadline.

It's wierd. Keefe has been against the 11 and 7, and now wants to use it in situations that don't make sense?

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Genuinely wondering if any of the other teams that added players at the TDL gone with 11/7 or is Keefe just:
a: super duper smart and waaaaaaaay ahead of everyone else in the NHL and is a trailblazer ahead of his time.

Lots of teams have. Edmonton does it quite frequently.

They were 11 and 7 when they pounded the Leafs last week.

 

[rojac]

What does LTIRing him accomplish?

They have already LTIRed him. It lets them carry a couple of extra players .

 

[Drytoast]

The whole premise is just f***ed. Basing everything on the fact a guy sees the ice in the last minute.
Does that mean Engvall/Kerfoot has always been seen as more valuable than Nylander?

Nylander's job is to score goals. Defensemen especially on our team and how we use them...their job is to defend. Even on the powerplay, Rielly is just a bumper. The defense doesn't shoot.

If it makes you feel better, Rielly doesn't see the ice with 5 to go up 1.

 

[LeafSteel]

Okay but that wasn't the point. You seemed to imply Babcock benching Holl for an entire season was fine because Babcock was around the team so he knew. You can use that for Keefe too as well.
I don't see Keefe getting a free pass. He's getting rightfully criticized for his decisions.

It was actually a sarcastic response to the poster swinging all the way left on Keefe having vantages of Holl that HF posters aren't privy to make player assessments. I just swung it all the way right to show how silly all or nothing is here.

For the record, I was against Holl not being given an opportunity to play under Babcock, and there are posts of me saying it in HF (and it doesn't mean bupkiss anyways, right? ).

Having said that, I think there is a big difference between a then 27-28 year old Holl not being given an opportunity to gain experience and develop vs. a 23 year old Liljegren, Sandin, and essentailly a rookie Timmins, all of whom are players that have higher ceilings, and are being counted on to be key players for us in the long-term. Holl? Not so much...

 

[rojac]

It's wierd. Keefe has been against the 11 and 7, and now wants to use it in situations that don't make sense?

Given that the Leafs are still trying to see where various deadline acquisitions fit in, I wonder if Keefe is going with 11 and 7 because that pretty much forces him to play with the lines and d-parinings whereas going with 12 and 6 makes it too easy for himself to just roll the same pairings and lines. I don't know. It's just a theory.

 

[PromisedLand]

It isn't only that. Marner played 26 minutes last game. Only an idiot runs their horse hard leading up to the Kentucky derby. I get they were behind but they can't continue to do shit like that and risk injury

Keefe is really pissing me off. he is running the forwards into the ground with so much ice time especially when running 11F and 7D. There wont be much left in the tank for the playoffs if keefe keeps doing this

 

[Rude Dog]

That Ekholm was a hell of a pick up, TBH I was pissed that Dubas passed on him after hearing he was a target for the Leafs but passed because Nashville wouldn't retain salary.

I would love to see Toronto punch Edmonton in the face Saturday night and be the Alpha but I feel like they are gonna play like sissy's and its going to be a route for Edmonton.

We pick up heavy players that don't play heavy, we got goal scorers who don't compete hard. Pretty weak mentally this team is.

6-2 Edmonton.

That game last week was one of the worst games of the year for sure. Hope they prove you wrong

 

[rojac]

It's well known around here that some posters are fine with Holl in hte lene-up and others never want him to take the ice as a Leaf again. But do we really need these views pointed over and over again in what seems like every single Leafs thread (at the very least, it's pretty much every pre-game, gameday, and post-game thread.)? It's tiring. What do the posters hope to accomplish by making the same points over and over again? Do they imagine that ranting to a group of fellow fans is somehow going to change Kyle Dubas and/or Sheldon Keefe do with the player?

 

[Optimist]

We're going to be busy starting tomorrow. 5 games in 8 days.

 

[DarkKnight]

We win in spite of Keefe.

 

[Confucius]

McDavid on Saturday night in Toronto on HNIC, what could go wrong? 4 point night incoming, at least.

He only had 2 assists on his only other appearance on a Saturday night game in Toronto. Actually he doesn’t light us up as much as some may think.When playing in Toronto 2 goals and 8 assists in 8 games.

 

[DragoGrizzly]

Keefe said today that the 7 d lineup is more to do with getting all the new d/men touches and playing time rather than any strategy or pair tryouts. It makes me think that the Leafs had another move at the deadline planned that didn’t pull through since this isn’t an optimal set-up right now. It can’t be what they planned to have happened.
I really hope the big boys show up tomorrow. Holl gets crapped on a lot (I do it too) but he generally has good shifts against McJesus so it will be interesting to see how our d core handles him without Holl’s reach in the lineup.

 

[HellasLEAF]

Edmonton looked like a real contender against Leafs. Hopefully Leafs show they can be good on home ice too, like the Oilers were. I can see Oilers going to the finals.