hayes is always on point. What he said about the team was true. They played like complete shit prior to Covid and clearly continued being inconsistent during the play-ins
Toronto Sports Media Discussion Thread - v5
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hayes is always on point. What he said about the team was true. They played like complete shit prior to Covid and clearly continued being inconsistent during the play-ins
downer ending
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I hate steve dangle so much. Some of what he says has merit for sure, but he's just another Rogers Pin Up Doll at this point.
I don't know how Craig Button is on "Leafs Lunch" all the time. I don't think there's an analyst on TSN who is more of leafs hater than him. Guy had leafs as 4th best Canadian team behind Jets, Habs(had them 1st), and Flames. Flames I can give you, but habs and jets? Guy is Jim Hughson level leafs hater. It's not just a one off thing, it is consistent. Beyond transparent now to me.
downer ending
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it's really weird because it seems like toronto sports media needs to hire EITHER people who hate the leafs with a passion OR people who worship the leafs no matter what
Damisoph
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Hayes is the king of the hot take. When he said he couldn't feel any better about this roster than the one 10 years ago, I had to tune out.
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Not sure about the Jets being ahead those teams but Leafs are right in that range.
A Canadian division would be interesting. Matthews is a difference maker and if he’s healthy the Leafs could finish first or second, but no one would be surprised if they finished third to fifth.
justashadowof
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This team has better top end talent by a country mile but there is a similar vibe to the team of 2010 through 2015. They pick their spots for bursts of dominance while otherwise playing to the level of their opponent and usually allowing the opponent to dictate the style of the game.
Brobust
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Pretty obvious when you listen to them that they're extremely afraid of stepping on anyone's toes.
Plus their opinions are dog shit anyway.
I don't think it's Leaf "hate." I just think he's proven time and again that he's really, really stupid.
Or that maybe we as fans are stupid and settle for mediocrity year after year? Let’s be honest, we have not accomplished shit all in over a decade. Yes the team has more talent but we have absolutely nothing to show for it.
Compared to our Canadian counterparts? You need Craig Button to do your research for you as far as this year's version of the Leafs rate compared to the other Canadian teams?
all those other teams have at least won a playoff round LOL. What have the leafs done in the last 10 years besides hit on a couple of first round draft picks? NOTHING. Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver, Montreal, Ottawa and Winnipeg have all made it to at least the 2nd round within the last 10 years. Toronto has not. So say what you want, the truth of the matter is Toronto is definitely last when it comes to having any success in the playoffs. Everyone gets caught up in the players that Toronto has but they haven't done anything deserving of the hype we as a fan base give them. I don't know why we never hold them accountable.
Additionally Montreal's roster is much improved and they have a top 3 goalie in net. They can finish second in the Atlantic. Their roster is more balanced than Toronto's. We have more skill but we lack heart, grit and consistency. It's why we lose to teams like Montreal and Columbus because they out work our guys. That has to change this season.
To me it's about projecting. They have sucked and chocked, no sane person can deny that. They've been an utter joke the past 10 years. But I don't know how a person looks objectively at all Canadian teams and thinks the leafs are the 4th best. There's definitely emotions on both sides of the fandom; whether it's blind homerism or just simple resentment from a decade/half century of failure. I'm trying to be as objective as possible. To me, they've not only underachieved by choking in do-or-die games 3 years in a row but they've built the team in a way not fitting for playoff hockey. But as season projections; I don't see how any objective analysts looks at the quality of the players in each teams lineup and puts the leafs behind the jets and habs. To me it's only a debate about flames or leafs at 1. It's not about past accomplishment, it's about projecting where the teams will finish. To me it either represent a lack of hockey knowledge, dislike of the leafs organization or both.
I do think there is a valid case to be made that Montreal has a better roster than Toronto. Especially when it comes to defense and goaltending. I don't think it's even close. Yes we have 5 really great forwards, Tavares, Hyman, Nylander, Marner and Matthews. But outside of those 4, no one else really produces consistently. Montreal to me is the best Canadian team at the moment, Leafs #2, Calgary #3. I can see the case for Winnipeg, but it is really about personal preference. I think we also overvalue our Big 4 four forwards. Where as other analysts and teams see their flaws more.
I don't see the valid case. To me, the criteria is this; special teams, 5 on 5, defence and talent.
Lets look at talent first. There is no one in that top 6 that is better than of the top 3 for the leafs; you can make for Suzuki being better than Nylander. No player is without flaws, but to me, their talent out weigh their flaws. You're a better team if you have talented players like them. The depth down the middle, which is so important, is a massive advantage for the leafs. It's not even close.
Special teams: I value the leafs PP and the habs PK more than the respective parts, but I think theres a bigger gap in the PP advantage for the leafs where I feel the habs and leafs PK are much closer.
5on5; I give the leafs the advantage on this on, while the habs defence is slightly better (which I'll get to) the leafs are high scoring team and will probably finish top 5, at worst top 10 (unless injuries happen), where I don't see the habs scoring much and will relying heavily on their goaltender again. Toffoli and Andersen aren't enough to offset, especially losing Domi the other way.
Defence: Huge advantage in goaltending, even at the backup position, which will be their ace, and you can probably give them the benefit of an experienced coaching staff, but when it comes to personnel, I don't see a gap. Is a top 3 of Weber, Petry, Edmunson that much better than Rielly, Muzzin, Brodie? You can make a case for either. And I don't think there's much of a gap between the rest.
To me, Flames and Leafs are ahead of the Canadian pack. They both have depth down the middle, both have reliable(enough) goaltending, they've both improved or maintained their d-core. A lot of flames players had low or career low years compared to 2 seasons, which I don't see happening again. The jets have no depth down the middle, and for all the press the leafs d-core gets, the jets are far worse off.
People are too mesmerized by the habs bubble success. They had no business being in the playoffs and made an upset after months of no hockey. They are an overachieving below mediocre team that just got a few pieces this off season to push into a bubble team. They are going to rely heavily on Price/Allen because they don't have the group, imo, to score enough unless some players have career years.
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Damisoph
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Even if that were the case, how he couldn't feel better about this roster blew my mind. Hence, king of the hot takes.
Mad hatter
Go Leafs Go
Toffoli was a nice pickup but I don’t get the Anderson love. He’s 26 and had 1 good season playing on a line with Parain and that’s it. Imho Domi is a better player and they downgraded with that trade. Their D core is good but 5 on 5 I can’t see how they are better then the leafs.
Carey Price is absolutely the X factor and will steal them games. The leafs need a game breaker in net to solidify things for me.
Mad hatter
Go Leafs Go
He certainly is, when he’s on his game he’s definitely one of, if not the best goalie. That said he has been inconsistent and a little injury prone the last 3 years or so.
kevsh
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I like him overall but he is also the king of wishful thinking - or some other term that describes someone who constantly tries to push the positive, but clearly delusional spin on a situation, move, decision etc.
One memorable example: When Kawhi was deciding where to sign Hayes went on about how Leonard and his wife were sight-seeing in Toronto as a sign he was likely going to stay. No, that's what you do when you're about to leave a place for good. He also pointed out a half-dozen other reasons that were similarly flawed thinking.
Kawhi was never going to sign in Toronto. No chance, but Hayes kept banging the "he could be staying!" drum over and over to the point I wanted one of his co-hosts to slap him out of his daydream.
MsMeow
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I've always liked him and still do. This is exactly why, he's self-deprecating unlike so many others. I loved him with Bob Mackowycz (sp?) years ago, they were so much fun together.
Judas Tavares
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