Post-Game Talk: Toronto barely loses to carolina

[Kiwi]

We were the better team, dominate play like that and we will win 80-90% of our games

The goaltending was disappointing and our defenseman don't seem to have any idea what there partner is up to (hardly surprising since we've jumbled the pairs recently) but you can see the makings of a very competitive team come playoff time

I'm disappointed we lost but I'm encouraged by the performance

 

[Mess]

I think you can pretty much look at the make-up of the team.

Elite:
Forwards
Okay:
Defense
WTF:
Goaltenders

"Good teams are built from the goalie out, through strong defense ... "

 

[notDatsyuk]

For a team with one top pairing D, one second pairing D, and about ten third or fourth pairing D, we didn't do too badly.

Murray with rebound control issues again, and Tavares with countless unforced giveaways on bad passes were the main culprits, along with Keefe's deployments.

You can see how frustrated Willy is, with seemingly every pass to JT ending up either turned over or shot at the goalie, often in a low percentage scenario. He looked much better the few times he was on the ice without his anchor.

If they are considering resting up tired players, can we give JT a break? Preferably for the rest of this season and the next two, including playoffs.

 

[kk87]

Let's look at the positives.
1. we actually played pretty well most of the game
2. For possibly the first time this season, Matthews is decidedly back to being Matthews
3. Tampa is a sinking ship - four straight losses, and they seem to be imploding

 

[ULF_55]

Holy Shit....

If Woll is going to turn into Dryden......................................

Well, to be fair, the Habs had a good defense.

 

[Stephen]

My only hope is he somehow turns it on in the playoffs. It seems his offence is starting to come back, desperately need him to step up his defensive game

We can’t afford to shelter him like a Tyson Barrie

If the Leafs are thinking of their forwards and dmen in 5 man units, I don't think you can have all three of Rielly, Nylander and Tavares together on the ice at the same time 5 on 5...

 

[notbias]

"Good teams are built from the goalie out, through strong defense ... "

"Except for last years champs"

 

[Aashir]

If the Leafs are thinking of their forwards and dmen in 5 man units, I don't think you can have all three of Rielly, Nylander and Tavares together on the ice at the same time 5 on 5...

Problem is then you limit the transition and offensive potency of nylander and Tavares, if they play together

Rielly is still offensively our best defencemen. Not having him out there is gonna really restrict us from having the best possible players out

 

[GQS]

1- you can remove all 9 empty net goal, and he became at +5, 4 goal against in pp against... hes now at +9 at 5v5 same as brodie...

2- yes rielly taking risk because its whats leafs want from rielly and sometime yes that will cost a goal or whatever but most of the time, he will make great thing

So why not do this for all the other Leafs defensemen and see where they end up? Still better than Rielly.

Also if Rielly is even decent defensively then why is he pretty much the ONLY ONE that doesn't play much on the PK? Pretty much every other Leafs Dman has taken some time on PK on a pretty regular basis and yet Keefe rarely puts Rielly on the PK.

And also ask yourself why is it that the Leafs were playing horribly and losing so many OT games when Rielly was starting and especially in the first couple of minutes and then suddenly when they put Liljegren along with Kampf and whoever to replace him the Leafs record in OT vastly improved?

 

[keonsbitterness]

View attachment 676206

Keefe's propensity to fall back on veterans may have sealed his fate.

View attachment 676207

'71 Habs may have been the only playoff team where a healthy goalie started over half of his team's regular season games and then appeared in zero post-season games.

As for starting Woll, I don't think Keefe and Leafs management has it in them to take that risk

For a team with one top pairing D, one second pairing D, and about ten third or fourth pairing D, we didn't do too badly.

Murray with rebound control issues again, and Tavares with countless unforced giveaways on bad passes were the main culprits, along with Keefe's deployments.

You can see how frustrated Willy is, with seemingly every pass to JT ending up either turned over or shot at the goalie, often in a low percentage scenario. He looked much better the few times he was on the ice without his anchor.

If they are considering resting up tired players, can we give JT a break? Preferably for the rest of this season and the next two, including playoffs.

Dumb comment. JT was one of our best forwards tonight.

 

[thusk]

So why not do this for all the other Leafs defensemen and see where they end up? Still better than Rielly.

Also if Rielly is even decent defensively then why is he pretty much the ONLY ONE that doesn't play much on the PK? Pretty much every other Leafs Dman has taken some time on PK on a pretty regular basis and yet Keefe rarely puts Rielly on the PK.

And also ask yourself why is it that the Leafs were playing horribly and losing so many OT games when Rielly was starting and especially in the first couple of minutes and then suddenly when they put Liljegren along with Kampf and whoever to replace him the Leafs record in OT vastly improved?

1- rielly played 1:07 by game on pk... so not true he rarelynplaying on pk

2-Rielly is the only D who playing with empty net goal when leafs pull his goalie and sandin was the guy who played in pp2 big part of season...liljegren and gustafsson both had 1 goal against in pp

3- before mccabe trade when everyone was healthy, brodie/rielly was playing toughest matchup...for a guy who should suck drfensivly, it was extremely high defensivr responsabilities a big part of season

4- why leafs lost that many game is not about rielly, its about how everyone just made high risky invidual play who didn't work and gave up high scoring chance against. Thats why keefe started to use kampf in OT to simplify leafs game in OT and taking less useless risk.

 

[Puckstuff]

1- rielly played 1:07 by game on pk... so not true he rarelynplaying on pk

2-Rielly is the only D who playing with empty net goal when leafs pull his goalie and sandin was the guy who played in pp2 big part of season...liljegren and gustafsson both had 1 goal against in pp

3- before mccabe trade when everyone was healthy, brodie/rielly was playing toughest matchup...for a guy who should suck drfensivly, it was extremely high defensivr responsabilities a big part of season

4- why leafs lost that many game is not about rielly, its about how everyone just made high risky invidual play who didn't work and gave up high scoring chance against. Thats why keefe started to use kampf in OT to simplify leafs game in OT and taking less useless risk.

Rielly literally lost his man with 2 minutes left that lead to the last goal.

Only Rielly seems to put him self in those positions that late in a game, more often than not.

But it’s also on Keefe for playing him that late because he’s a proven liability.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

So why not do this for all the other Leafs defensemen and see where they end up? Still better than Rielly.

Also if Rielly is even decent defensively then why is he pretty much the ONLY ONE that doesn't play much on the PK? Pretty much every other Leafs Dman has taken some time on PK on a pretty regular basis and yet Keefe rarely puts Rielly on the PK.

And also ask yourself why is it that the Leafs were playing horribly and losing so many OT games when Rielly was starting and especially in the first couple of minutes and then suddenly when they put Liljegren along with Kampf and whoever to replace him the Leafs record in OT vastly improved?

With the addition of McCabe, his PK time has gone down a little bit, but before McCabe, Rielly was often the 5th PK defenseman. Also has the best PK numbers on the team. He probably could PK more, but I guess Keefe figures he is needed in other scenarios and we have other solid alternatives.

As for OT, couldn't we ask the same question about Marner? Or Matthews for that matter? Matthews-Marner-Rielly is 1-8 together over the last three years. Marner especially is often the culprit for OT losses, and a lot of guys typically do better without him than with him. Matthews-Rielly is 5-0 without Marner in that same timeframe FWIW. Our best OT unit by far is Matthews-Nylander-Rielly.

Thé complète D collapse has the familiar air of the past few playoffs especially Colombus and Montreal.

This is on the coach.

Keefe can’t get his players to respect him and play.

Not when he’s putting Reilly as a number 1 D.
The whole team can see he soft on the blue line and let’s everyone walk-in.

Jesus Christ Keefe, do you need s coach on how to coach a team to hold a lead ffs.

The Leafs are 31-2-4 going into the 3rd period with a lead... 10-3-2 if they go in with a tie.

21-5-2 going into the 2nd period with a lead.

Really, as long as the Leafs don't go into the 3rd period trailing, we are doing fine. We are 2-14-3 when trailing after 2 periods. Our defense holds leads just fine. Goaltending is the question mark... Murray blew a winnable game with iffy rebound control and positioning.

 

[2 Slick]

The Leafs looked in playoff form, losing games they should be winning, it's what they do best every year.

Matt Murray is hot garbage, 2.97 GAA, .905%, Woll would probably deliver better numbers than that.

No chance this team even makes it to game 7, let alone gets past the first round.

Am I being negative? Sure, but I'm also being realistic.

 

[Shooter2x]

our defenseman don't seem to have any idea what there partner is up to

There is no such thing as having a dominating team in hockey if this trait exists.

Going off on my own rant from this point, rest of the post isn't targeted towards you.

I mean, it's different year same shit. Our top guys are top tier in the whole league so they can mask all flaws when they have good games. Our top guys are being taken for granted at this point. You can surround them with any crap you want and we'll finish top 10 every single time. We just need Matthews and Marner alone to have peak level games to dominate an entire team. Mix in Nylander and Tavares and it's game over.

This always breaks down in the playoffs. Boggles my mind we didn't go all in with additions like Horvat or Jeannot. The headlines say we went "all in" yet all I see is a bunch of old guys and sideways players. Our management continuously fails to realize the gold mine they are sitting on and opt for these weird money puck moves all the time. O'Reilly falls in that category. We went for the 32 year old, "look how smart our cap specialists are" move instead of the younger Horvat who has found a new gear in the scoring department. Acciari is already in preservation mode, rationing when he can be a bottom 6 warrior and when he needs to re-charge. If we were choosing the old man route then Patrick Kane was the no.1 choice. At least bring in the no.1 choice for the route you're taking. We needed a top 4 and they went the usual cute route getting McCabe and Lafferty instead. Our playoff opponents easily wash out these type of additions even though these additions keep us competitive on the NHL scope.

We needed to surround the core with full time warriors like how Tampa does every single year, even when they have zero draft picks. We've known this for 4+ years now and still never do it. Maybe 2024 is when we finally get our Coleman, Goodrow, Jeannot etc. depth warriors, or still-in-their-prime impact player like Horvat or Lindholm.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

There is no such thing as having a dominating team in hockey if this trait exists.

Going off on my own rant from this point, rest of the post isn't targeted towards you.

I mean, it's different year same shit. Our top guys are top tier in the whole league so they can mask all flaws when they have good games. Our top guys are being taken for granted at this point. You can surround them with any crap you want and we'll finish top 10 every single time. We just need Matthews and Marner alone to have peak level games to dominate an entire team. Mix in Nylander and Tavares and it's game over.

This always breaks down in the playoffs. Boggles my mind we didn't go all in with additions like Horvat or Jeannot. The headlines say we went "all in" yet all I see is a bunch of old guys and sideways players. Our management continuously fails to realize the gold mine they are sitting on and opt for these weird money puck moves all the time. O'Reilly falls in that category. We went for the 32 year old, "look how smart our cap specialists are" move instead of the younger Horvat who has found a new gear in the scoring department. Acciari is already in preservation mode, rationing when he can be a bottom 6 warrior and when he needs to re-charge. If we were choosing the old man route then Patrick Kane was the no.1 choice. At least bring in the no.1 choice for the route you're taking. We needed a top 4 and they went the usual cute route getting McCabe and Lafferty instead. Our playoff opponents easily wash out these type of additions even though these additions keep us competitive on the NHL scope.

We needed to surround the core with full time warriors like how Tampa does every single year, even when they have zero draft picks. We've known this for 4+ years now and still never do it. Maybe 2024 is when we finally get our Coleman, Goodrow, Jeannot etc. depth warriors, or still-in-their-prime impact player like Horvat or Lindholm.

Even when there was no cap you can't win by finishing your team with old guys, no matter how good that old guy used to be.

I think O'Reilly falls in exception group though. He has one good playoffs in him being the no.5 here. Sheltered so can strive. With Blues he had to be no.1 C. I would swap horvat in with zero hesitation if I have choice so I see where you're coming from.

Agree with the rest. No "all in" killer instinct for the bottom 6 and defence. I like Acciari and want to re-sign him but I was hope for a Jeannot or equivlent. Something resemble the Goodrow like additions Tampa always finish their team off with. Acciari alone not enough at 31 turning 32 this year. He was never a top tier bottom 6 guy to begin with, just steady. Will need to drop O'Reilly into bottom 6 to make it above average.

 

[Shooter2x]

Even when there was no cap you can't win by finishing your team with old guys, no matter how good that old guy used to be.

I think O'Reilly falls in exception group though. He has one good playoffs in him being the no.5 here. Sheltered so can strive. With Blues he had to be no.1 C. I would swap horvat in with zero hesitation if I have choice so I see where you're coming from.

Agree with the rest. No "all in" killer instinct for the bottom 6 and defence. I like Acciari and want to re-sign him but I was hope for a Jeannot or equivlent. Something resemble the Goodrow like additions Tampa always finish their team off with. Acciari alone not enough at 31 turning 32 this year. He was never a top tier bottom 6 guy to begin with, just steady. Will need to drop O'Reilly into bottom 6 to make it above average.

Don't agree with O'Reilly. He has lost a step.

Tavares went 1/1 for a reason he's still a beast at his age. If we traded for Tavares to add to the core this season I'd consider that an exception.

O'Reilly plays like he's 32 now. He's going to need to ration himself in the playoffs like how Simmonds needed to ration himself when he was brought in as our grit leader. We are not in a position to go the rationing route. I thought we were over this by now and would be sticking to killer instinct moves only. They should have paid the premium on Horvat and cleared out whatever cap was needed instead of getting cute. Draft picks continuously leak out with nothing worthwhile coming in.

27 year old Horvat, 26 year old Meier, the assets to get them and players we can safely cut to make the cap room......and we took the 32 year old because of what he did in the past, not what he can still do. That's Leafs 101 level stupidity.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I feel like people are living in fantasy land talking about us not being able to hold a lead or collapsing. Like facts don't support that. People are also acting like Samsonov doesn't exist. We play like that we win 9 out of 10 games. It sucks we lost but that kind of effort is what we need to beat Tampa, put Sammy in net and we win. I don't see the reason for losing my shit over it.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

Don't agree with O'Reilly. He has lost a step.

Tavares went 1/1 for a reason he's still a beast at his age. If we traded for Tavares to add to the core this season I'd consider that an exception.

O'Reilly plays like he's 32 now. He's going to need to ration himself in the playoffs like how Simmonds needed to ration himself when he was brought in as our grit leader. We are not in a position to go the rationing route. I thought we were over this by now and would be sticking to killer instinct moves only. They should have paid the premium on Horvat and cleared out whatever cap was needed instead of getting cute. Draft picks continuously leak out with nothing worthwhile coming in.

27 year old Horvat, 26 year old Meier, the assets to get them and players we can safely cut to make the cap room......and we took the 32 year old because of what he did in the past, not what he can still do. That's Leafs 101 level stupidity.

Not going to come at someone who wants to add good players to the team. You're asking for top level players that were available and top level depth that was available. Stupid for me to fight against that

Truce.

 

[weems]

Disappointing result but was impressed with how the team responded after getting wrecked to start the game.

Problem is the game consists of 60 minutes and too often this team doesn't start the game with the needed intensity or focus. When we stepped up our intensity and pace, Carolina had lots of problems dealing with us and we started to really dominate.

What are people's thoughts on Schenn so far? I know his advanced stats aren't great but I feel he's been steady and shown he's not just some useless plug.

 

[Hellcat]

If the Leafs are thinking of their forwards and dmen in 5 man units, I don't think you can have all three of Rielly, Nylander and Tavares together on the ice at the same time 5 on 5...

Rielly, my god no player has fallen off the cliff as quickly as Rielly, at this point is he even a #4?

That 3rd goal , WTF was he doing , he was headed towards the blue line in the high slot area and his guy, who scored BTW, is 10 feet behind him wide open.

It's like Sandin's ghost has possessed Riellys body. If I'm Keefe, I'm sticking Rielly in defensive crap minute situations until he gets the point that a defenceman plays DEFENCE occasionally. Like I tell Rielly, your partner will drive the play you stay back and support him defensivly, you are not to pinch, go down low, if I see you within 10 feet on the faceoff dots on the offensive zone you are going to be benched. This is not an overreaction when I say this, when he is on the ice he is like a fourth forward for the opposing team., there is nothing currently in his game that helps our team..

He wants all the glory of a #1 and none of the dirty boring hard down low work that makes a #1 a #1. If he plays any meaningful minutes in the playoffs, we lose in round one.

 

[Shooter2x]

Not going to come at someone who wants to add good players to the team. You're asking for top level players that were available and top level depth that was available. Stupid for me to fight against that

Truce.

This place is just so weird to me now. Last year I had so many allies beside me fighting to add warriors to the team. We see guys like Jeannot, Hathaway and sand paper scoring options like Bertuzzi get added to our rivals and people are okay with it because we added Acciari and Lafferty and got rid of Engvall? Am I dreaming? If those are the moves we're making we should be keeping all our picks and drafting our own help.

 

[Hellcat]

Disappointing result but was impressed with how the team responded after getting wrecked to start the game.

Problem is the game consists of 60 minutes and too often this team doesn't start the game with the needed intensity or focus. When we stepped up our intensity and pace, Carolina had lots of problems dealing with us and we started to really dominate.

What are people's thoughts on Schenn so far? I know his advanced stats aren't great but I feel he's been steady and shown he's not just some useless plug.

Love Schenn's game so far, quiet, responsible and has a presence that keeps players on their toes in front of our net.

I feel like people are living in fantasy land talking about us not being able to hold a lead or collapsing. Like facts don't support that. People are also acting like Samsonov doesn't exist. We play like that we win 9 out of 10 games. It sucks we lost but that kind of effort is what we need to beat Tampa, put Sammy in net and we win. I don't see the reason for losing my shit over it.

Sammy cant make up the gap Morgan Rielly creates. That 3rd goal, the GWG, was 100% on Rielly.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

This place is just so weird to me now. Last year I had so many allies beside me fighting to add warriors to the team. We see guys like Jeannot, Hathaway and sand paper scoring options like Bertuzzi get added to our rivals and people are okay with it because we added Acciari and Lafferty and got rid of Engvall? Am I dreaming? If those are the moves we're making we should be keeping all our picks and drafting our own help.

Lafferty isn't going to scare any of the playoff teams and all his current metrics since he joined put him at scrub level. Agree.

I don't know where that zeke guy went but he got me in all these fancy stats and Laffertys are puke with zero offensive upside to make up for it

 

[Hellcat]

Don't agree with O'Reilly. He has lost a step.

Tavares went 1/1 for a reason he's still a beast at his age. If we traded for Tavares to add to the core this season I'd consider that an exception.

O'Reilly plays like he's 32 now. He's going to need to ration himself in the playoffs like how Simmonds needed to ration himself when he was brought in as our grit leader. We are not in a position to go the rationing route. I thought we were over this by now and would be sticking to killer instinct moves only. They should have paid the premium on Horvat and cleared out whatever cap was needed instead of getting cute. Draft picks continuously leak out with nothing worthwhile coming in.

27 year old Horvat, 26 year old Meier, the assets to get them and players we can safely cut to make the cap room......and we took the 32 year old because of what he did in the past, not what he can still do. That's Leafs 101 level stupidity.

Most of what you said I'm in agreement with, O'Rielly is not Horvat or Meier, he is how ever a very usefull forward if Keef can figure out how to use him, I was against bringing ROR here.

With that said ROR still has his hands (kind of), is among the best FO men in the league, that will help keep the puck out of Kucherov, Stamkos, Points hands. Since he's been a Leaf he's won 79 and lost 38, good for 67.5%. His defensive abilities more than makes up for JT and Willies inabilities without the puck. Not sure Horvat and Meier brings what we needed. It was a big miss passing on Ekholm.