Proposal: TOR TDL Moves

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ACC1224

Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
Aug 19, 2002
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Chara and Schenn on the same team?
They'd had to hit the ice for practice 10 minutes before everyone else just to get a head start on line rushes.
 
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Cogburn

Pretend they're yachts.
May 28, 2010
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Garland doesn't have the kind of value you hope he does. Hes a small complimentary winger who is feisty and draws penalties. Kerfoot is better defensively, is out producing him this year, is a better penalty killer, and is a better faster skater. The stats don't lie and they are more important then how Canucks fans feel. Miller is the only availible player on the Canucks worth an over pay.

Neither do the pieces offered have the value you think they do. Kerfoot has been hot garbage on the Leafs until this year, so he, a 22ish overall pick and an injury prone prospect isn't some kind of offer that can't be refused. It's not terrible, but it's not some overwhelming value, and it's a pile of assets that don't mean anything for us.

Miller is evidently not worth an overpay to fans, since I haven't seen a single overpay offer made from anyone asking about him.
 

Srsly

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Neither do the pieces offered have the value you think they do. Kerfoot has been hot garbage on the Leafs until this year, so he, a 22ish overall pick and an injury prone prospect isn't some kind of offer that can't be refused. It's not terrible, but it's not some overwhelming value, and it's a pile of assets that don't mean anything for us.

Miller is evidently not worth an overpay to fans, since I haven't seen a single overpay offer made from anyone asking about him.

Kerfoot was debatably the most consistent Leaf in the playoffs last season and was far from hot garbage. I’d rather keep him for the depth rather than gamble on Garlands slightly higher upside(that’s not proven at this point)
 

Hockey 4 Life

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Neither do the pieces offered have the value you think they do. Kerfoot has been hot garbage on the Leafs until this year, so he, a 22ish overall pick and an injury prone prospect isn't some kind of offer that can't be refused. It's not terrible, but it's not some overwhelming value, and it's a pile of assets that don't mean anything for us.

Miller is evidently not worth an overpay to fans, since I haven't seen a single overpay offer made from anyone asking about him.
Leafs would be foolish to give up those assets for Garland. Hes not worth the package and he doesn't really move the needle for the leafs. Hes an ok top 6 winger no more no less.
 

Cogburn

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Leafs would be foolish to give up those assets for Garland. Hes not worth the package and he doesn't really move the needle for the leafs. Hes an ok top 6 winger no more no less.

That's fine, I don't care about how Leafs fans feel, I have been speaking as a Canucks fan.
 

Cogburn

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Kerfoot was debatably the most consistent Leaf in the playoffs last season and was far from hot garbage. I’d rather keep him for the depth rather than gamble on Garlands slightly higher upside(that’s not proven at this point)

Fantastic. Now he can not be thrown in to every proposal for a Canucks, or other teams I'm sure, players.
 

Just a Fan

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Fantastic. Now he can not be thrown in to every proposal for a Canucks, or other teams I'm sure, players.
Wouldn’t matter, Leaf’s don’t have prime Gretzky and Bobby Orr that the Canucks would demand for their players…
 

AvroArrow

Mitch "The God" Marner
Jun 10, 2011
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Vancouver say no. Not enough of a return for them.
Isles say no. Extra hear on holl kills it.
Anaheim say no. Lateral move for the ducks to take back the worst player

At this stage Holl > Chara, Leafs say no. Chara is completely fried, he's just a giant pylon, absolutely 0 interest in him. Holl has actually been playing good hockey recently too.

Also I like Garland, but no from me. Over payment for him from our perspective. 1st + Robertson I would consider, but adding Kerfoot and a prospect no thanks. Kerfoot is a fine player for us, on pace for 57 points which is very respectable. Garland just isn't a need for us. For a big body player with the same level of impact, I would be ok with it but we just don't NEED Garland. That opens up another big hole on line 3, Robertson gone out as well so he cant fill that 3rd line role either. Just way too much going out for Garland. Creates more problems than it solves, we lose a prospect, 1st, a legitimate middle 6 winger and a very high end prospect in Robertson.
 

Djp

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I’m all ears. He is a great player and there is a reason the leafs (and me) want him but is it really more than what I offered? Kerfoot is playing at a higher PPG than Garland right now and it signed to a cheaper contract (albeit for 3 less years)

I understand Garland is a special player and is signed to a great contract but you’re telling me he is worth more than what basically amounts to 2 1sts and 2 2nds? (I’m being kind here and counting Kerfoot value as a 2nd which is low for a player on pace for 50 points signed under $4 mil for 1 more year)


Dermont and Kerfoot are useless/ garbage/ no interest asserts in a trade
1 st coukd be late in the round
Robertson is overvalued by toronto. I think he’s to small fir nhl and won’t be all that special as Totonto fans think.
 
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Just a Fan

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Feb 22, 2022
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Dermont and Kerfoot are useless/ garbage/ no interest asserts in a trade
1 st coukd be late in the round
Robertson is overvalued by toronto. I think he’s to small fir nhl and won’t be all that special as Totonto fans think.
Tell me, other than having a little more grit, what does Garland offer that's better than Kerfoot? Does he kill penalties? Play wing and center? Make 3.5 per? Has he out produced Kerfoot this season?

And in no way am i saying Van should do this trade, but if a multi purpose player that produces more and makes less than Garland is trash....what is Garland?
 

Hockey 4 Life

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Tell me, other than having a little more grit, what does Garland offer that's better than Kerfoot? Does he kill penalties? Play wing and center? Make 3.5 per? Has he out produced Kerfoot this season?

And in no way am i saying Van should do this trade, but if a multi purpose player that produces more and makes less than Garland is trash....what is Garland?
Garland really doesn't have anything other then age and term on kerfoot. Kerfoot is out scoring him, is better defensively, is a much better penalty killer, kerfoot is faster and has a smaller cap hit. Garland is a better shooter and draws more penalties. The grass isn't always greener.
 
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Djp

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Garland really doesn't have anything other then age and term on kerfoot. Kerfoot is out scoring him, is better defensively, is a much better penalty killer, kerfoot is faster and has a smaller cap hit. Garland is a better shooter and draws more penalties. The grass isn't always greener.

i st 50 getting what kerfoot gets woukd score more than he’s currently doing.
 

Hockey 4 Life

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i st 50 getting what kerfoot gets woukd score more than he’s currently doing.
You think, its only an opinion. Even if Garland did produce a little more kerfoot is better at every other meaningful facet of the game. Garland only has a bit more value because of age, potential, and a longer contract. It would be close to a lateral move for the leafs.
 

Boondock

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Feb 6, 2009
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To TOR
Connor Garland
Luke Schenn
2022 4th

To VAN
Alex Kerfoot
Travis Dermott
2022 1st
Nick Robertson
B Level Prospect (Kral, Abramov, Kokkonen, etc)


Trade Breakdown -
Kerfoot + 1st + Robertson + B Prospect for Garland and Dermott for Schenn + 4th. I believe this is fair value but I’m open to making changes



To TOR
Zdeno Chara
2022 5th

To NYI
Justin Holl
2023 4th

Trade Breakdown - Holl is a decent top 4 defenceman and really succeeds when playing with a defensively minded partner. Picks are included because Holl does cost more than Chara.


To TOR
Nick Deslauriers

To ANA
Kyle Clifford
C Prospect OR AHL/NHL Fringe Player (Joey Anderson/Brendan Mennel/Carl Dahlstrom, etc)

Trade Breakdown - Clifford is only here for Cap reasons. I would much rather have Deslaurier over Clifford. Deslaurier has been at the top of the league in hits almost every year. He is a UFA at the end of this year and the leafs are unlikely to resign him so this would basically be a rental for the leafs and if Anaheim wants him back they should have no problem doing so in the off-season.


Line Up After Trades

Bunting - Matthews - Marner

Garland - Tavares - Nylander

Mikheyev - Kampf - Kase

Engvall - Spezza - Simmonds

Deslauriers


Rielly - Liljegren

Brodie - Schenn

Sandin - Lyubushkin

Chara



For games that you know are going to be physical you swap out Liljegren and Chara and run

Rielly - Lyubushkin

Sandin - Schenn

Brodie - Chara

and you swap out Spezza and Deslauriers on the 4th line and play

Deslauriers - Engvall - Simmonds


I think this is the best way for the leafs to be harder to play against in the playoffs without sacrificing what makes them the leafs.


Thoughts?

I am a Canuck fan, and from a straight up value perspective, I think the argument could be made that this offer is actually a slight over pay. From a team construction and need perspective, the pieces coming back to Vancouver don't really fit what most Vancouver fans think the team needs. I know this has been discussed but Vancouver's biggest needs are young 2 way RHD that can pair with Hughes, young C prospects/players. Secondary needs are to clear cap and finally to add assets to our prospect pool. If the Canucks are using their assets to address areas of weakness or concern, this deal doesn't do that. Vancouver have enough wingers so lets move one to improve other areas of the team, but instead they add a winger and a wing prospect. Vancouver wants a long term solution to play beside Hughes, so they trade Hughes current partner for a player that wouldn't really fit with Hughes and doesn't add anything the team doesn't already have. Yes the pick is great, a late 1st so realistically you can expect a 3rd line winger or a 2nd pairing dman in 4-5 years. Yes Robertson is a very good prospect - unfortunately I have my concerns. He is undersized and has dealt with 2 significant injuries in his first 2 pro seasons. That hampers his development and raises durability issues. From a positional stand point, the Canucks have more wingers than other positions - as of today the Canucks have Garland (25 year old undersized winger signed for 4 more seasons), Boeser (24 yr old winger), Podkolzin (young winger), Hoglander (young undersized winger) - as for the very shallow prospect pool Klimovich and Lockwood are probably in the Canucks top 3-4 prospects and are both wingers.

Basically this trade doesn't help the Canucks re-allocate assets, it adds assets (especially Robertson and the pick) but it weakens the current roster and doesn't really accomplish what the Canucks need to be doing.
 
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Just a Fan

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Feb 22, 2022
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You think, its only an opinion. Even if Garland did produce a little more kerfoot is better at every other meaningful facet of the game. Garland only has a bit more value because of age, potential, and a longer contract. It would be close to a lateral move for the leafs.
It's not even really lateral, the grit/toughness, sure....but we'd lose Kerfoot's PK and defensive abilities while gaining 1.5ish in cap. I like Garland....but Kerfoot isn't trash.
 

Hockey 4 Life

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Feb 10, 2012
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I am a Canuck fan, and from a straight up value perspective, I think the argument could be made that this offer is actually a slight over pay. From a team construction and need perspective, the pieces coming back to Vancouver don't really fit what most Vancouver fans think the team needs. I know this has been discussed but Vancouver's biggest needs are young 2 way RHD that can pair with Hughes, young C prospects/players. Secondary needs are to clear cap and finally to add assets to our prospect pool. If the Canucks are using their assets to address areas of weakness or concern, this deal doesn't do that. Vancouver have enough wingers so lets move one to improve other areas of the team, but instead they add a winger and a wing prospect. Vancouver wants a long term solution to play beside Hughes, so they trade Hughes current partner for a player that wouldn't really fit with Hughes and doesn't add anything the team doesn't already have. Yes the pick is great, a late 1st so realistically you can expect a 3rd line winger or a 2nd pairing dman in 4-5 years. Yes Robertson is a very good prospect - unfortunately I have my concerns. He is undersized and has dealt with 2 significant injuries in his first 2 pro seasons. That hampers his development and raises durability issues. From a positional stand point, the Canucks have more wingers than other positions - as of today the Canucks have Garland (25 year old undersized winger signed for 4 more seasons), Boeser (24 yr old winger), Podkolzin (young winger), Hoglander (young undersized winger) - as for the very shallow prospect pool Klimovich and Lockwood are probably in the Canucks top 3-4 prospects and are both wingers.

Basically this trade doesn't help the Canucks re-allocate assets, it adds assets (especially Robertson and the pick) but it weakens the current roster and doesn't really accomplish what the Canucks need to be doing.
The offer is a vast overpay. Garlands a better shooter and draws more penalties thats literally it. Kerfoot is a much better penalty killer, hes better defensively, hes faster, and is out producing Garland this year. I wouldnt add much to kerfoot for Garland, only reason leafs would add at all is length of contract and age and potential.
 

Hockey 4 Life

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It's not even really lateral, the grit/toughness, sure....but we'd lose Kerfoot's PK and defensive abilities while gaining 1.5ish in cap. I like Garland....but Kerfoot isn't trash.
They are similar players yet Garland is worth a haul and kerfoot is lucky to return a 3rd according to hf.
 
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Boondock

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The offer is a vast overpay. Garlands a better shooter and draws more penalties thats literally it. Kerfoot is a much better penalty killer, hes better defensively, hes faster, and is out producing Garland this year. I wouldnt add much to kerfoot for Garland, only reason leafs would add at all is length of contract and age and potential.
your opinion - not shared by all. No interest in Kerfoot, no interest in a trade package that doesn't address needs regardless of how others feel - just my opinion, not shared by all.
 

Just a Fan

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Feb 22, 2022
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your opinion - not shared by all. No interest in Kerfoot, no interest in a trade package that doesn't address needs regardless of how others feel - just my opinion, not shared by all.
Question then….why are Canucks fans asking for 1st+Lysell from Boston? He isn’t a RHD…

And again, this isn’t me pushing any trade from TO.
 

Hockey 4 Life

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your opinion - not shared by all. No interest in Kerfoot, no interest in a trade package that doesn't address needs regardless of how others feel - just my opinion, not shared by all.
No its not my opinion its a fact based on actual stats. Garland is a average at best top 6 winger who admittedly plays with heart and draws a lot of penalties. Hes a 50 point undersized pest, no more and no less.
 

Hockey 4 Life

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Question then….why are Canucks fans asking for 1st+Lysell from Boston? He isn’t a RHD…

And again, this isn’t me pushing any trade from TO.
Of all the players rumored to be availible at the deadline that the leafs could aquire, Garland wouldnt even be in my top 10. Hes mediocre at best.
 

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