Proposal: TOR TDL Moves

[LucicAndChong]

To TOR
Connor Garland
Luke Schenn
2022 4th

To VAN
Alex Kerfoot
Travis Dermott
2022 1st
Nick Robertson
B Level Prospect (Kral, Abramov, Kokkonen, etc)

Trade Breakdown -
Kerfoot + 1st + Robertson + B Prospect for Garland and Dermott for Schenn + 4th. I believe this is fair value but I’m open to making changes



To TOR
Zdeno Chara
2022 5th

To NYI
Justin Holl
2023 4th

Trade Breakdown - Holl is a decent top 4 defenceman and really succeeds when playing with a defensively minded partner. Picks are included because Holl does cost more than Chara.


To TOR
Nick Deslauriers

To ANA
Kyle Clifford
C Prospect OR AHL/NHL Fringe Player (Joey Anderson/Brendan Mennel/Carl Dahlstrom, etc)

Trade Breakdown - Clifford is only here for Cap reasons. I would much rather have Deslaurier over Clifford. Deslaurier has been at the top of the league in hits almost every year. He is a UFA at the end of this year and the leafs are unlikely to resign him so this would basically be a rental for the leafs and if Anaheim wants him back they should have no problem doing so in the off-season.


Line Up After Trades

Bunting - Matthews - Marner

Garland - Tavares - Nylander

Mikheyev - Kampf - Kase

Engvall - Spezza - Simmonds

Deslauriers


Rielly - Liljegren

Brodie - Schenn

Sandin - Lyubushkin

Chara



For games that you know are going to be physical you swap out Liljegren and Chara and run

Rielly - Lyubushkin

Sandin - Schenn

Brodie - Chara

and you swap out Spezza and Deslauriers on the 4th line and play

Deslauriers - Engvall - Simmonds


I think this is the best way for the leafs to be harder to play against in the playoffs without sacrificing what makes them the leafs.


Thoughts?

Click to read more...

 

[Mrfenn92]

Vancouver say no. Not enough of a return for them.
Isles say no. Extra hear on holl kills it.
Anaheim say no. Lateral move for the ducks to take back the worst player

 

[Holymakinaw]

 

[LucicAndChong]

Vancouver say no. Not enough of a return for them.
Isles say no. Extra hear on holl kills it.
Anaheim say no. Lateral move for the ducks to take back the worst player

Appreciate the feedback
1) What would be a fair trade for Garland? I don’t see how getting a 50 point player + Robertson + A 1st + Another Prospect is undervalue

2) Holl can be moved during FA next year if the Islanders don’t like him. Someone will take him if the Islanders don’t want him.

3) I understand it’s a lateral move but I’m assuming the ducks aren’t making the playoffs here so they’re basically getting a C Prospect to do a lateral trade. I don’t see how that’s a bad trade for them but again I’d like to be proven wrong

 

[Just a Fan]

Appreciate the feedback
1) What would be a fair trade for Garland? I don’t see how getting a 50 point player + Robertson + A 1st + Another Prospect is undervalue

2) Holl can be moved during FA next year if the Islanders don’t like him. Someone will take him if the Islanders don’t want him.

3) I understand it’s a lateral move but I’m assuming the ducks aren’t making the playoffs here so they’re basically getting a C Prospect to do a lateral trade. I don’t see how that’s a bad trade for them but again I’d like to be proven wrong

Don't ask.....you won't like the response.

 

[LucicAndChong]

View attachment 512395

I don’t think my trade evaluations are bad enough to require a metaphorical beat down lol.

If anything I think people will say no because this is a series of trades that involve making the leafs better and everyone on here that’s not a leafs fan wants to see the leafs suffer so unless we are trading Knies + Niemela + 3 1sts people are going to say it’s not a fair deal

 

[Mrfenn92]

Appreciate the feedback
1) What would be a fair trade for Garland? I don’t see how getting a 50 point player + Robertson + A 1st + Another Prospect is undervalue

2) Holl can be moved during FA next year if the Islanders don’t like him. Someone will take him if the Islanders don’t want him.

3) I understand it’s a lateral move but I’m assuming the ducks aren’t making the playoffs here so they’re basically getting a C Prospect to do a lateral trade. I don’t see how that’s a bad trade for them but again I’d like to be proven wrong

First Trade I could be off admittedly.
Second trade just trade for Chara outright. No reason for the isles to take holl back.
Pulock, Dobson and Mayfield as righties on the roster already.
Trade 3 getting a c level prospect does nothing for them. They could trade deslauriers for a draft pick.

 

[LucicAndChong]

Don't ask.....you won't like the response.

I’m all ears. He is a great player and there is a reason the leafs (and me) want him but is it really more than what I offered? Kerfoot is playing at a higher PPG than Garland right now and it signed to a cheaper contract (albeit for 3 less years)

I understand Garland is a special player and is signed to a great contract but you’re telling me he is worth more than what basically amounts to 2 1sts and 2 2nds? (I’m being kind here and counting Kerfoot value as a 2nd which is low for a player on pace for 50 points signed under $4 mil for 1 more year)

 

[LucicAndChong]

First Trade I could be off admittedly.
Second trade just trade for Chara outright. No reason for the isles to take holl back.
Pulock, Dobson and Mayfield as righties on the roster already.
Trade 3 getting a c level prospect does nothing for them. They could trade deslauriers for a draft pick.

I appreciate the constructive feedback.

For the Chara trade, it’s mainly so the leafs can clear some extra cap space. I guess we could do 2 separate trades, one where we trade Holl for a pick to some team who wants him and then flip that pick back to NYI to get Chara. I was just hoping it would be easier to get it all done in one trade.

as for Deslaurier I see where you’re coming from but for the kind of pick Deslaurier would be worth by himself, aren’t you hoping that it turns into a player like the ones I’m offering? The chances of hitting it big with a 4th/5th pick and slim. What I’m offering is basically the same thing except 3 years of additional development for the pick

 

[Mrfenn92]

I appreciate the constructive feedback.

For the Chara trade, it’s mainly so the leafs can clear some extra cap space. I guess we could do 2 separate trades, one where we trade Holl for a pick to some team who wants him and then flip that pick back to NYI to get Chara. I was just hoping it would be easier to get it all done in one trade.

as for Deslaurier I see where you’re coming from but for the kind of pick Deslaurier would be worth by himself, aren’t you hoping that it turns into a player like the ones I’m offering? The chances of hitting it big with a 4th/5th pick and slim. What I’m offering is basically the same thing except 3 years of additional development for the pick

Just don’t see the isles having any interest in holl’s extra year. Better off trading him separately.
Anaheim Deal they would probably prefer to pick their own guy. Advanced development won’t mean much if your offering a lower liked prospect. Rather roll the dice on their own.

 

[Just a Fan]

I’m all ears. He is a great player and there is a reason the leafs (and me) want him but is it really more than what I offered? Kerfoot is playing at a higher PPG than Garland right now and it signed to a cheaper contract (albeit for 3 less years)

I understand Garland is a special player and is signed to a great contract but you’re telling me he is worth more than what basically amounts to 2 1sts and 2 2nds? (I’m being kind here and counting Kerfoot value as a 2nd which is low for a player on pace for 50 points signed under $4 mil for 1 more year)

In the Boston/Van thread, they are asking for 1st+Lysell....

 

[LucicAndChong]

Just don’t see the isles having any interest in holl’s extra year. Better off trading him separately.
Anaheim Deal they would probably prefer to pick their own guy. Advanced development won’t mean much if your offering a lower liked prospect. Rather roll the dice on their own.

While I don’t agree with your opinions, I can understand and respect them. Thanks for having a constructive conversation about this

In the Boston/Van thread, they are asking for 1st+Lysell....

I don’t follow other teams prospects so what’s the evaluation on Lysell?

 

[Just a Fan]

While I don’t agree with your opinions, I can understand and respect them. Thanks for having a constructive conversation about this




I don’t follow other teams prospects so what’s the evaluation on Lysell?

Lysell is an excellent prospect for Boston, one of their best. 41 points in 35 games this season in the WHL.

 

[LucicAndChong]

Lysell is an excellent prospect for Boston, one of their best. 41 points in 35 games this season in the WHL.

Fair enough. Is Robertson not a comparable? And if not, is there really such a gap between them that Kerfoot + B Prospect on top of Robbie and a 1st doesn’t close the gap?

 

[Donuts]

keep it simple

halak for leafs 1st

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

1) What would be a fair trade for Garland? I don’t see how getting a 50 point player + Robertson + A 1st + Another Prospect is undervalue

Outside perspective but it seems like an overpayment to me. Kerfoot is one of the Leafs main penalty killers for forwards isn't he? On a pretty good penalty killing team overall. Seems pretty responsible defensively and produces pretty well 5v5. Not sure the gap between them is a decent prospect, a 1st and another B prospect.

 

[Just a Fan]

Fair enough. Is Robertson not a comparable? And if not, is there really such a gap between them that Kerfoot + B Prospect on top of Robbie and a 1st doesn’t close the gap?

They will look at Kerfoot as a negative cap dump….

 

[Just a Fan]

keep it simple

halak for leafs 1st

Along with Vancouver’s 1st+…correct?

 

[Makaveli]

If that is the price for Garland, I would gladly pass. Not worth it for the Leafs.

 

[Yackiberg8]

They will look at Kerfoot as a negative cap dump….

The Canucks fans will but someone who knows hockey will not.

 

[Yackiberg8]

To TOR
Connor Garland
Luke Schenn
2022 4th

To VAN
Alex Kerfoot
Travis Dermott
2022 1st
Nick Robertson
B Level Prospect (Kral, Abramov, Kokkonen, etc)

Trade Breakdown -
Kerfoot + 1st + Robertson + B Prospect for Garland and Dermott for Schenn + 4th. I believe this is fair value but I’m open to making changes



To TOR
Zdeno Chara
2022 5th

To NYI
Justin Holl
2023 4th

Trade Breakdown - Holl is a decent top 4 defenceman and really succeeds when playing with a defensively minded partner. Picks are included because Holl does cost more than Chara.


To TOR
Nick Deslauriers

To ANA
Kyle Clifford
C Prospect OR AHL/NHL Fringe Player (Joey Anderson/Brendan Mennel/Carl Dahlstrom, etc)

Trade Breakdown - Clifford is only here for Cap reasons. I would much rather have Deslaurier over Clifford. Deslaurier has been at the top of the league in hits almost every year. He is a UFA at the end of this year and the leafs are unlikely to resign him so this would basically be a rental for the leafs and if Anaheim wants him back they should have no problem doing so in the off-season.


Line Up After Trades

Bunting - Matthews - Marner

Garland - Tavares - Nylander

Mikheyev - Kampf - Kase

Engvall - Spezza - Simmonds

Deslauriers


Rielly - Liljegren

Brodie - Schenn

Sandin - Lyubushkin

Chara



For games that you know are going to be physical you swap out Liljegren and Chara and run

Rielly - Lyubushkin

Sandin - Schenn

Brodie - Chara

and you swap out Spezza and Deslauriers on the 4th line and play

Deslauriers - Engvall - Simmonds


I think this is the best way for the leafs to be harder to play against in the playoffs without sacrificing what makes them the leafs.


Thoughts?

First trade is an overpayment from Toronto imo.

 

[Just a Fan]

The Canucks fans will but someone who knows hockey will not.

In the real world? I agree....but on this site? Kerfoot will be viewed as a cap dump....even though he has 38 points in 54 games, while Garland has 31 in 51.

 

[LucicAndChong]

Outside perspective but it seems like an overpayment to me. Kerfoot is one of the Leafs main penalty killers for forwards isn't he? On a pretty good penalty killing team overall. Seems pretty responsible defensively and produces pretty well 5v5. Not sure the gap between them is a decent prospect, a 1st and another B prospect.

First trade is an overpayment from Toronto imo.

Honestly I also think my own proposal is an overpayment but as a leafs fan on HFBoards you’re not taken seriously and can’t have constructive conversations if you’re not overpaying.

Overpay = Equal Value
Equal Value = Underpay

But still, Garland is younger, signed long term and brings a Physical/Pest factor that Kerfoot doesn’t and I am willing to overpay for that.

Also for the fact that Garland looks to be a 20G/30A/50P player in the future.

IMO I don’t think I need to include the B Prospect but honestly if this is what it takes to get Garland and Schenn I won’t lose sleep over it.

Dermott isn’t a part of our future and while Kerfoot is like the Swiss Army knife of players, he isn’t really a part of our future anyway. Garland is what we hope Robbie turns into (but with a less lethal shot) and our Management group has shown that we can draft great players without needing 1st round picks.

is it an overpay? Yes. But it’s one that IMO I am comfortable with

 

[Cogburn]

Kerfoot means very little to me and a good number of Canucks fans. He is in this trade, I assume, as a cap consideration, as Vancouver isn't retaining for 4 more years after this one. Robertson is a fine prospect, but prior to recent news I'd have preferred Amirov. The first is what ever, the Maple Leafs will end the season well enough into the playoff picture to make it very low. The "B" level prospects don't hold a lot of interest either, unless Knies or Niemela have fallen into that category in recent days. This part isn't the worst offer for Garland that's been made.

Schenn and Dermott makes no sense here though. Drop Dermott entirely, and if Schenn is essential to the trade then...well I guess he has to be included. He is closer to the value of a mid second round pick to us though (contract, role, value, chemistry) and we have LHD that are earning close to Dermott's cap hit for what he will provide for us, even without Schenn.

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

Kerfoot means very little to me and a good number of Canucks fans. He is in this trade, I assume, as a cap consideration, as Vancouver isn't retaining for 4 more years after this one. Robertson is a fine prospect, but prior to recent news I'd have preferred Amirov. The first is what ever, the Maple Leafs will end the season well enough into the playoff picture to make it very low. The "B" level prospects don't hold a lot of interest either, unless Knies or Niemela have fallen into that category in recent days. This part isn't the worst offer for Garland that's been made.

Schenn and Dermott makes no sense here though. Drop Dermott entirely, and if Schenn is essential to the trade then...well I guess he has to be included. He is closer to the value of a mid second round pick to us though (contract, role, value, chemistry) and we have LHD that are earning close to Dermott's cap hit for what he will provide for us, even without Schenn.

Garland doesn't have the kind of value you hope he does. Hes a small complimentary winger who is feisty and draws penalties. Kerfoot is better defensively, is out producing him this year, is a better penalty killer, and is a better faster skater. The stats don't lie and they are more important then how Canucks fans feel. Miller is the only availible player on the Canucks worth an over pay.