Confirmed Signing with Link: [TOR] T.J. Brodie signs with the Maple Leafs (4 years, $5M AAV)

[Suntouchable13]

It's a series winning top 3 D. You guys might need better than Holl, but there's always the trade deadline for that. If I were a Leafs fan I'd be hoping Liljegren takes a huge step forward as that #4 guy

I am not sold Liljegren that he can do that yet. He looked really green last season, to me anyway.

 

[NoName]

I bet Barrie will end up getting less than what Brodie signed for. Toronto didn't re-sign Barrie because he's too expensive... they declined to sign him because he sucks defensively and they already have too many players like that.

I would be very surprised if there isn't a team willing to offer Barrie a contract better the $5million a year. Being able to move the puck and generate a lot of offense out of the blue line, QB a powerplay are pretty sought after skills (even if, admittedly they aren't the skills the Leafs have the greatest need for right now) and won't come cheap. I can't see Barrie getting a contract less then Krug.

 

[Suntouchable13]

To really bolster their defence and solidify their chances to contend, I agree that there needs to be an upgrade on Holl. Push him down to third pair as a guy that step up during injuries, sure. Maybe that guy is already there in Sandin, but think a veteran addition is needed.

Maybe, I am just not counting on it.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

I am not sold Liljegren that he can do that yet. He looked really green last season, to me anyway.

I just feel like that greenness is nothing some regular icetime can't fix. Gotta try it. Muzzin - Liljegren is a pairing that should really work.

 

[kabidjan18]

So, if I've got this straight, you're comparing a 23 year old Dman to 3 30 year old Dmen and expecting the 23 year old to be: as good defensively, as defined a product as they are, all while having played less professional hockey by a period of 4-500 games. Heck of an analysis.

First of all, 23 years old is younger, it is not eminently young. Zach Werenski is 23 years old. Zach Whitecloud is 23 years old. Miro Heiskanen is 21 years old. Eik Cernak is 23 years old. Mikhael Sergachev is 22 years old. Ivan Provorov is 23 years old, Philippe Myers is 23 years old, Quinn Hughes is 20 years old, Cale Makar is 21 years old. Charlie McAvoy is 22 years old. Brandon Carlo is 23 years old. 23 is on the younger side, but there was absolutely no prohibition on 23 and under defensemen in the later rounds of the playoffs this year, far from it, they were there in large numbers.

Also, to return to the initial post that started this conversation. The argument that Dermott might be as good years from now doesn't help you when talking about trades today. The initial proposal was a trade proposal Weegar for Dermott and Johnsson. Let me get this straight. You're conceding that Dermott is not as good as Schenn defensively now, but in 7 years when he's 30, he will be as good as Schenn. Gee where do the panthers sign up for this incredible deal. They could have a solid defenseman now, or they could wait 7 years for Dermott to become a competent 5/6 guy, not to mention the practical reality that Dermott wouldn't even be around the team by then because he'd long be a UFA by then.

 

[SnizzNasty88]

Andersen has been the best Leafs Goalie since they had Ed Belfour. However the problem is he also let's some bad goals get past him on shots he should have saved, especially in the playoffs and it's something Bryan Hayes said during the TSN free agent frenzy show.

Yeah sure eat up whatever the Toronto media says man. While he does let in some bad goals at key times, it doesn’t mean he’s not good, we’d be a lottery team without him. He’s not even close to the problem. Team toughness and defensemen who can actually defend are the problem.

 

[Mickey Marner]

I just feel like that greenness is nothing some regular icetime can't fix. Gotta try it. Muzzin - Liljegren is a pairing that should really work.

You'd think so, but Dermott hasn't been promoted in three years, and Sandin was paired with Barrie and Liljegren during his callup.

For a team that integrates forwards so well, the Leafs defensive development has been absolute shit.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Don't worry Leafs fans. You can still get Pietrangelo.

In NHL 20/21.

I can't speak for anybody else but I just wanted a couple pieces on defense Brodie is a top pair D, now just get a depth guy and I'm good

 

[The CyNick]

If you look at the sad history of Morgan Rielly D partners, Brodie is a great addition.

Hunwick, Franson, Hainsey, Marincin, Ceci, Polak, etc. Hainsey is the only legitimate top 4 dman he's played with, and that was a very slow Hainsey near end of his career.

Hainsey was his partner the only years Reilly looked like a top pair D.

 

[Vergil]

We were nowhere near ready to be able to sign Pietrangelo anyways. It’s unfortunate that our GM still believes you can win a Cup while paying 4 forwards half your cap. Had Dubas been wiser, he wouldn’t have done this.
As for your team, congratulations on winning the Cup!
What are your thoughts on all the NMC and NTC that a lot of your players have?

My thoughts? We got a cup. JBB will figure it out. Don't really care. Thanks for the well wishes!

 

[biotk]

You'd think so, but Dermott hasn't been promoted in three years, and Sandin was paired with Barrie and Liljegren during his callup.

For a team that integrates forwards so well, the Leafs defensive development has been absolute shit.

Yup, and sadly enough 5 years ago Dubas outlined the ways in which the team had previously damaged the development of prospects, and how they were now a professional organization that no longer did those things - and then since becoming GM has done everything he said not to do with his young D's.

 

[seanlinden]

You'd think so, but Dermott hasn't been promoted in three years, and Sandin was paired with Barrie and Liljegren during his callup.

For a team that integrates forwards so well, the Leafs defensive development has been absolute shit.

Q-F-T -- Seriously.

They've got 4 reasonably young defencemen who need to play (Lehtonen, Dermott, Liljegren and Sandin), but realistically, only room for 1 because they all play the same style.

I think the problem is -- since Dubas took over, they have seemingly built from the middle-pair of the defence, outwards, rather than prioritizing the top of their D, and then figuring out ways with which to integrate the youth they have.

You have a quite competent top pair of Morgan Rielly & Ron Hainsey. A mediocre 2nd pair of Gardiner & Zaitsev, and a decent bottom pair with Dermott's upside & Ozhiganov -- knowing that Liljegren is coming soon. You know Gardiner is leaving, and probably suspect that Zaitsev wants out.

He could have said to himself-- let's get a high quality, defensive minded, right shot who can maybe play with Rielly on the top pair, maybe play with Dermott on the 2nd pair, regardless give us flexibility to move Hainsey down the lineup as he gets older -- and accept that maybe Ron Hainsey is the ideal partner for a Timothy Liljegren to come into the lineup next year.

No, instead he goes out and gets Jake Muzzin, only to find out that he & Rielly both really need to be on the left side; so now he's stuck rebuilding his 2nd pair; and goes off and trades for 1 year of Tyson Barrie to give the team even more offence from the backend -- because he & Muzzin should have made for a good 2nd pair.

At this point, the Leafs have built their top 4 with Rielly, Brodie, Muzzin & Holl, and it's really not a bad one especially when you consider that I think Brodie & Holl may be interchangable.

Beyond that, they've gotta take the 4 potential guys they have -- and key-in on one or two of them as "we're going to develop this player". One will be the #5/6 defenceman, the other can be #7, and let Rosen/Marincin battle it out for #8.

The others need to be jettisoned before their value drops to zero, and they need to bring in an experienced body to help foster that development -- somebody who compliments whomever you've picked. At this point, I do believe that you have to move on from Dermott, he needs more opportunity than playing behind Muzzin & Rielly are going to give him. Sandin is a more logical fit on the 3rd pair.

 

[Rubi]

Who are all these other dmen who suck defensively?

Seriously? Go to the Leafs HF page. You will find lots of complaints about all of them...
Its a well known fact that one of the Leafs biggest problems has been their poor defense and if Craig Anderson isn't bailing them out they're usually screwed unless they're fortunate enough to score their way out of trouble.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Seriously? Go to the Leafs HF page. You will find lots of complaints about all of them...
Its a well known fact that one of the Leafs biggest problems has been their poor defense and if Craig Anderson isn't bailing them out they're usually screwed unless they're fortunate enough to score their way out of trouble.

I don't even want to think about where the Leafs would be without Craig Anderson

 

[Rubi]

I would be very surprised if there isn't a team willing to offer Barrie a contract better the $5million a year. Being able to move the puck and generate a lot of offense out of the blue line, QB a powerplay are pretty sought after skills (even if, admittedly they aren't the skills the Leafs have the greatest need for right now) and won't come cheap. I can't see Barrie getting a contract less then Krug.

We shall see I guess. I look at Barrie as the used car with transmission problems that the Avalanche sold Toronto... but those problems don't show up until after driving a few miles down the road.

 

[biotk]

Q-F-T -- Seriously.

They've got 4 reasonably young defencemen who need to play (Lehtonen, Dermott, Liljegren and Sandin), but realistically, only room for 1 because they all play the same style.

Some of them should be moved out. Dubas also had a problem with refusing to move out forwards when he had too many. Trade Sandin and/or Dermott.

 

[Rubi]

I would be very surprised if there isn't a team willing to offer Barrie a contract better the $5million a year. Being able to move the puck and generate a lot of offense out of the blue line, QB a powerplay are pretty sought after skills (even if, admittedly they aren't the skills the Leafs have the greatest need for right now) and won't come cheap. I can't see Barrie getting a contract less then Krug.

Sounds like he's going to sign a 1 year "show me" contract for $4 mil. He needs to prove he's better than what he showed in Toronto. If he doesn't, his contract with the Avs/Leafs will be the high point of his career.

 

[TheGreatOne11]

Seriously? Go to the Leafs HF page. You will find lots of complaints about all of them...
Its a well known fact that one of the Leafs biggest problems has been their poor defense and if Craig Anderson isn't bailing them out they're usually screwed unless they're fortunate enough to score their way out of trouble.

Craig is so good I rarely ever notice him playing most nights.

 

[meefer]

First of all, 23 years old is younger, it is not eminently young. Zach Werenski is 23 years old. Zach Whitecloud is 23 years old. Miro Heiskanen is 21 years old. Eik Cernak is 23 years old. Mikhael Sergachev is 22 years old. Ivan Provorov is 23 years old, Philippe Myers is 23 years old, Quinn Hughes is 20 years old, Cale Makar is 21 years old. Charlie McAvoy is 22 years old. Brandon Carlo is 23 years old. 23 is on the younger side, but there was absolutely no prohibition on 23 and under defensemen in the later rounds of the playoffs this year, far from it, they were there in large numbers.

Also, to return to the initial post that started this conversation. The argument that Dermott might be as good years from now doesn't help you when talking about trades today. The initial proposal was a trade proposal Weegar for Dermott and Johnsson. Let me get this straight. You're conceding that Dermott is not as good as Schenn defensively now, but in 7 years when he's 30, he will be as good as Schenn. Gee where do the panthers sign up for this incredible deal. They could have a solid defenseman now, or they could wait 7 years for Dermott to become a competent 5/6 guy, not to mention the practical reality that Dermott wouldn't even be around the team by then because he'd long be a UFA by then.

You missed Chabot. Come on, if you're going to use the cream of the crop, go all the way. Perhaps, just for the fun of it, you might want to include the majority of young defensemen who have played 160 odd games in the NHL and not solely present the best of the bunch. The argument wasn't based on age 30 it was based on experience and talent, and if, as I suppose you to be, you are a fan of the Panthers, you might wish to consider the fact that your D corp is aging and you're not exactly flush with prospects to recharge your group. Further, while you've slagged Dermott's defensive abilities, I'd ask you to compare Stillman (who I suspect would be you 3rd pairing LD) against Dermott, while at the same time acknowledging that your strength at LW is...lacking. Perhaps you'd consider two upgrades at positional need to be less harmful than the loss of at one position. That, of course, is up to you.

 

[WillTheThrill]

Even the hate from Habs and Sens fans has calmed down a lot.

But those Western teams you listed - it's like they hate the Leafs more than they cheer for their own team. Bizarre stuff.

It really is quite the inferiority complex isn’t it.

 

[kabidjan18]

You missed Chabot. Come on, if you're going to use the cream of the crop, go all the way. Perhaps, just for the fun of it, you might want to include the majority of young defensemen who have played 160 odd games in the NHL and not solely present the best of the bunch. The argument wasn't based on age 30 it was based on experience and talent, and if, as I suppose you to be, you are a fan of the Panthers, you might wish to consider the fact that your D corp is aging and you're not exactly flush with prospects to recharge your group. Further, while you've slagged Dermott's defensive abilities, I'd ask you to compare Stillman (who I suspect would be you 3rd pairing LD) against Dermott, while at the same time acknowledging that your strength at LW is...lacking. Perhaps you'd consider two upgrades at positional need to be less harmful than the loss of at one position. That, of course, is up to you.

I didn't miss Chabot because if you'd actually read further (into the part you bolded) you'd have seen the phrase "in the later rounds of the playoffs this year."

I'm not a cats fan but I'll play along. Why am I presenting the "best of the bunch?" Because you're trying to exchange one of Florida's top pairing defensemen, for Dermott. You say I should include the majority of young defensemen who've played 160 odd games in the NHL. That's the point. If I'm a cats fan, I wouldn't even consider trading my top pairing defenseman for one of the many inexperienced and, to be frank, bad defensemen in the league, for my top pairing guy. It's not like I say no to Dermott but I'd jump all over Mirco Muller. I am including the majority of these bad trade targets and rejecting them. Upgrading my #6 D at the cost of downgrading my top pairing is patently absurd. Not to mention that the extent to which that is an actual upgrade is so small, that it would be absurd to even compare it to the downgrade of having to promote a player like Yandle to the top line, and then having to replace him. Top pairing defensemen are the most important players in the game, ironically so much so that, that's why you're trying to trade for Weegar in the first place. Those downgrades, shifting someone up to the first pair and then shifting someone up to the second pair to replace that guy, compared to the tiny defensive upgrade of getting Dermott, to be quite frank I'd prefer Holl to Dermott, and that's no compliment to Holl. Also, you haven't been paying attention to the transfers, because "we" just signed Radko Gudas. We traded far Markus Nutivaara. "We" won't have to play Stillman unless there is an injury, and the upgrade Dermott would be to Stillman as the #7 injury substitute defensemen is even smaller, because that player isn't expected to play a significant amount. And Left Wing is not a serious problem. There's Huberdeau, Vatrano can play left wing, Denisenko is playing with the top team this year. And so forth.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

His OVR in NHL21 is not high enough

That's actually true he's only 83 should probably be 85-86

 

[Price is Wright]

Great signing for the Leafs.

Good thing he didn't have to deal with Babcock.

 

[Yackiberg8]

I didn't miss Chabot because if you'd actually read further (into the part you bolded) you'd have seen the phrase "in the later rounds of the playoffs this year."

I'm not a cats fan but I'll play along. Why am I presenting the "best of the bunch?" Because you're trying to exchange one of Florida's top pairing defensemen, for Dermott. You say I should include the majority of young defensemen who've played 160 odd games in the NHL. That's the point. If I'm a cats fan, I wouldn't even consider trading my top pairing defenseman for one of the many inexperienced and, to be frank, bad defensemen in the league, for my top pairing guy. It's not like I say no to Dermott but I'd jump all over Mirco Muller. I am including the majority of these bad trade targets and rejecting them. Upgrading my #6 D at the cost of downgrading my top pairing is patently absurd. Not to mention that the extent to which that is an actual upgrade is so small, that it would be absurd to even compare it to the downgrade of having to promote a player like Yandle to the top line, and then having to replace him. Top pairing defensemen are the most important players in the game, ironically so much so that, that's why you're trying to trade for Weegar in the first place. Those downgrades, shifting someone up to the first pair and then shifting someone up to the second pair to replace that guy, compared to the tiny defensive upgrade of getting Dermott, to be quite frank I'd prefer Holl to Dermott, and that's no compliment to Holl. Also, you haven't been paying attention to the transfers, because "we" just signed Radko Gudas. We traded far Markus Nutivaara. "We" won't have to play Stillman unless there is an injury, and the upgrade Dermott would be to Stillman as the #7 injury substitute defensemen is even smaller, because that player isn't expected to play a significant amount. And Left Wing is not a serious problem. There's Huberdeau, Vatrano can play left wing, Denisenko is playing with the top team this year. And so forth.

I'm a big fan of Weegar due to being a Moosehead fan but you might need to pump the breaks on the top pairing defenceman talk for now. At this point, you want him as a middle pairing guy on your team not on the top pair.

 

[tsujimoto74]

I can't speak for anybody else but I just wanted a couple pieces on defense Brodie is a top pair D, now just get a depth guy and I'm good

When he was being carried around by Giordano, he was. Who's doing that work for him in Toronto?