Confirmed Trade: [TOR/STL/MIN] O'Reilly, Acciari, Pillar to TOR; Abramov, Gaudette, ‘23 1st, ‘23 3rd, ‘24 2nd to STL; ‘25 4th to MIN

[TimeZone]

"WELL ACKTUALLY THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 31 AND 35 MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE"

Drop the corny debatelord schtick. There's 2 players on that list that isn't in the NHL right now and 1 was drafter last season and playing in the NCAA. There are 3 players with PPG seasons and 2 1Cs. There's value in those picks and the Amateur scouting department for the Blues has shown they can find that.

I'm literally not going to include players who were drafted outside of the range where the St. Louis Blues are capable of drafting with the Toronto Maple Leafs first round selection, because it quite literally makes zero sense to do so.

Where do we draw the line, shall we start including their third and fourth selections as well? 6th rounders? No.

The Leafs pick is likely to be around the 25-28 range, I don't care about Kyrou who was picked 10 slots later bro, I truly don't.

 

[EK392000]

except everyone knew that was a stupid comment case he was gonna fork up a 1st.

Could’ve just been a negotiating tactic. Treat the first as untouchable so that the other party thinks they’re getting more out of you than you’re willing to give up. That’s my best guess.

 

[Bluesish]

You should actually take the time to look into the Blues Draft history before posting.

Thompson and Thomas were homeruns, how about the rest of their picks in that range over the last 10-15 years? It's safe to assume those picks are anomalies, not the rule of thumb. And evidently the Blues weren't so high on Thompson either, as he was flipped without a second thought.

The proof is in the puddling

St. Louis Blues Draft History at hockeydb.com

So now we're going to ignore the word 'recent' and go back 10+ years?

Also, your argument against Thompson is irrelevant and a strawman. The argument is about drafting quality NHL players (100 games played by your data's standard) not how an organization values them. This is coupled with you moving the goalposts (again) by stating we've only had 2 homerun picks in that range, when your data's argument was based on games played.

The question is simple: do the Blues have recent success in drafting in the 20+ range? Blues fans will vehemently agree.

I am happy with another 1st round pick in this draft because our scouting staff has shown they can identify talent. And if we miss on our picks? So what. We aren't making this year's playoffs anyway so I'd rather a wasted pick than a 12th place finish and value wasted.

 

[McShogun99]

Toronto had to do something big before the playoffs. They know their path is thru Tampa and Boston and need every advantage they can get.

 

[PocketNines]

You should actually take the time to look into the Blues Draft history before posting.

Thompson and Thomas were homeruns, how about the rest of their picks in that range over the last 10-15 years? It's safe to assume those picks are anomalies, not the rule of thumb. And evidently the Blues weren't so high on Thompson either, as he was flipped without a second thought.

The proof is in the puddling

St. Louis Blues Draft History at hockeydb.com

"Your chances if (sic) playing 100+ games in the NHL being drafted in the back 10 picks of the first round are extremely low" – YOU

Here are all of the Blues picks in the 20-35 range in the cap era:

2022 – Snuggerud (you're straight up dishonest not to recognize how great this pick was)
2020 – Neighbours is 20 and has 37 games and barring injury is going to reach 100 games easy
2018 – Bokk 0 games
2017 – Thomas 292 games and counting
2017 – Kostin 84 games and counting
2016 – Thompson 276 games and counting
2016 – Kyrou 224 games and counting (a team can easily trade down from the late 20s for a pick like this)
2014 – Fabbri 320 games and counting
2014 – Barbashev 405 games and counting
2012 – Schmaltz 42 games (bad defenseman good thing they got Parayko in round 3)
2011 – Rattie 99 games (you called it! 100 games! lol ... )
2008 – McRae 15 games
2008 – Allen 384 games and counting
2007 – Perron 1027 games and counting
2006 – Berglund 717 games
2006 – Kana 6 games
2005 – Oshie 939 games and counting

The Blues higher picks than that range have been:

2006 – Erik Johnson, Cup champion and still playing, 908 games
2007 – Lars Eller, Cup champion and still playing, 925 games
2007 – Ian Cole, Cup champion and still playing, 721 games
2008 – Alex Pietrangelo, Cup champion and still playing, 925 games
2009 – David Rundblad (traded for the Tarasenko pick and played 113 games)
2010 – Jaden Schwartz, Cup champion and still playing, 643 games
2010 – Vladimir Tarasenko, Cup champion and still playing, 648 games
2021 – Zach Bolduc (one of Wheeler's current top 50)

Not only have the Blues CRUSHED the first round of the draft in the cap era, they have blown your terrible, unrelentingly dishonest argument to smithereens.

Please familiarize yourself with STL Blues draft history, here you go:

St. Louis Blues Draft History at hockeydb.com

 

[Thallis]

You should actually take the time to look into the Blues Draft history before posting.

Thompson and Thomas were homeruns, how about the rest of their picks in that range over the last 10-15 years? It's safe to assume those picks are anomalies, not the rule of thumb. And evidently the Blues weren't so high on Thompson either, as he was flipped without a second thought.

The proof is in the puddling

St. Louis Blues Draft History at hockeydb.com

Maybe you should take a look yourself. In that 20-35 Range, the Blues have hit on 10/15 of those picks since the lockout. 66% is pretty good, and only goes up if you expand to include all spots that miss the playoffs in the 1st round.

I'm literally not going to include players who were drafted outside of the range where the St. Louis Blues are capable of drafting with the Toronto Maple Leafs first round selection, because it quite literally makes zero sense to do so.

Where do we draw the line, shall we start including their third and fourth selections as well? 6th rounders? No.

This isn't how drafting works. Teams will have wildly different draft boards and select depending on their picks and who's available. If a team likes a guy in that range, it doesn't matter if they're picking at 28 or 34, they'll pick that guy there. You're splitting hairs to try and win an internet argument instead of creating positive discussion.

 

[TimeZone]

So now we're going to ignore the word 'recent' and go back 10+ years?

Also, your argument against Thompson is irrelevant and are strawman. The argument is about drafting quality NHL players (100 games played by your data's standard) not how an organization values them. This is coupled with you moving the goalposts (again) by stating we've only had 2 homerun picks in that range, when your data's argument was based on games played.

The question is simple: do the Blues have recent success in drafting in the 20+ range? Blues fans will vehemently agree.

I am happy with another 1st round pick in this draft because our scouting staff has shown they can identify talent. And if we miss on our picks? So what. We aren't making this year's playoffs anyway so I'd rather a wasted pick than a 12th place finish and value wasted.

Your issue here is you're clearly cherry picking sample sizes, you have two great selections in the 20-32 range over the last decade and a half, but when we look at decades worth of data we can see league wide that the odds of selecting an impact player in this range are quite low.

When we look at the broader range of selections made from the St. Louis Blues in this regard, we can conclude they've been good, however we can also conclude that players like Tage Thompson and Robert Thomas are anomalies, not the norm as we have a significant amount of data from their general selections as well. How the organization values their selection should be indicative of future success regarding future selections, generally speaking you don't move assets who you view as to having 40+ goal potential, Tage is a massive outlier and this is pretty indisputable.

Perhaps they'll hit a homerun with this pick, but statistically, it's simply far less likely to transpire than you're acting due to a couple of obvious outliers.

 

[Zur En Arrh]

"Contender"

1. HF is filled with many different opinions and isn't a person.
2. matthew >>>>Drai ainec. WTF are you talking about? Why are you so mad at the world.

All I ever said originally is that HF doesn't just have one opinion. There are thousands upon thousands of differnet views in here and you've been going off talking about nonsense. I get you are mad that people are Leaf haters. BUt seriously. Just relax and enjoy the game.
Just be happy you got a really good player. lol

Not mad at the world. Yes hf is made up of a lot of opinions. Not leafs tho. Leafs opinions are basically just trollathons and whining. I'm not mad bro lol. I just like to rub faces in their own garbage. The main boards are just insufferable and I love when they're wrong (usually are) and right now is one of those yummy momemts. Feels good man, not mad, happy!! Bwahaha suck it hf!!

 

[NewEraGM]

as much as I dislike the leafs, they are fascinating to follow!
They are a far better team today than yesterday. But…..
If they can’t get out of round 1, tear it down after this

 

[Kranix]

Keefe says he has spoken to O'Reilly, briefly, and ROR gave him a lot of respect in that call

 

[PocketNines]

Your issue here is you're clearly cherry picking sample sizes, you have two great selections in the 20-32 range over the last decade and a half, but when we look at decades worth of data we can see league wide that the odds of selecting an impact player in this range are quite low.

When we look at the broader range of selections made from the St. Louis Blues in this regard, we can conclude they've been good, however we can also conclude that players like Tage Thompson and Robert Thomas are anomalies, not the norm as we have a significant amount of data from their general selections as well. How the organization values their selection should be indicative of future success regarding future selections, generally speaking you don't move assets who you view as to having 40+ goal potential, Tage is a massive outlier and this is pretty indisputable.

Perhaps they'll hit a homerun with this pick, but statistically, it's simply far less likely to transpire than you're acting due to a couple of obvious outliers.

Also the Blues have done the opposite of your argument to such a degree that their last two head scouts became NHL GMs.

The Blues turned around from dead last in 2006 and despite being able to attract almost no UFAs (Jay McKee and a late stage Paul Kariya) won more regular season games than any team in the West during the 2010s because their drafting was (and remains) excellent.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

This is the most elite trade I've seen this weekend.

Will there be elite dominoes falling now?

Which elite player is next?

 

[AvroArrow]

as much as I dislike the leafs, they are fascinating to follow!
They are a far better team today than yesterday. But…..
If they can’t get out of round 1, tear it down after this

What if they make it out of the 1st ? Or the conference final ? Or cup final ?

 

[Canadienna]

This is the most elite trade I've seen this weekend.

Will there be elite dominoes falling now?

Which elite player is next?

Mike Hoffman is outscoring ROR this year.

I'm guessing he's the next "elite" player to go

 

[EK392000]

I wonder what the narrative would've had Tampa acquired ROR. Surely more optimistic than this one.

People hate how much they see Leafs news but come here just to hate LOL you're doing it to yourself sometimes.

 

[Canadienna]

I wonder what the narrative would've had Tampa acquired ROR. Surely more optimistic than this one.

People hate how much they see Leafs news but come here just to hate LOL you're doing it to yourself sometimes.

This thread is full of neutral fans saying they like the trade.

I think your negativity bias is showing. If Tampa made the move, there would absolutely be some people shitting on it.

 

[NewEraGM]

What if they make it out of the 1st ? Or the conference final ? Or cup final ?

Conference final or SCF the season is a success and they continue. I’d say conference finals is the minimum.

For me, what is far more important than the ROR acquisition, is the big boys need to produce when it matters. (Game 5-6-7)

 

[AvroArrow]

Conference final or SCF the season is a success and they continue. I’d say conference finals is the minimum.

For me, what is far more important than the ROR acquisition, is the big boys need to produce when it matters. (Game 5-6-7)

Agree 100%.

 

[ole ole]

This is the most elite trade I've seen this weekend.

Will there be elite dominoes falling now?

Which elite player is next?

Which elite player will be the 1st to move if any.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Mike Hoffman is outscoring ROR this year.

I'm guessing he's the next "elite" player to go

Not so fast.

Court records reveal how events unfolded before Karlsson-Hoffman dispute became public

Caryk also maintains in her factum that she has not been contacted for any Senators investigation into the allegations.

ottawacitizen.com

 

[ole ole]

I wonder what the narrative would've had Tampa acquired ROR. Surely more optimistic than this one.

People hate how much they see Leafs news but come here just to hate LOL you're doing it to yourself sometimes.

If healthy it's a good trade but Damn he's so injury prone.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

You knew that Dubas was going to make a big move as this is his last chance and he needs to prove himself.
And Toronto's window is wide open so he needs to make a move every year to improve their odds.
To his credit, at least he just acquired a rental rather than trading for a long term contract that would have handcuffed his successor.
The price paid was high but fair imo. The only real remaining question is whether ROR was the correct target. That we can only wait and see.

 

[hamzarocks]

Just curious why Vatrano wouldn't be a good option? He's been productive as a secondary scorer for the Ducks

Honestly I thought he'd be a guy who fades out in tbe playoffs but just stat watching he had 13 in 20 for the Rangers last

 

[Bluesish]

Your issue here is you're clearly cherry picking sample sizes, you have two great selections in the 20-32 range over the last decade and a half, but when we look at decades worth of data we can see league wide that the odds of selecting an impact player in this range are quite low.

When we look at the broader range of selections made from the St. Louis Blues in this regard, we can conclude they've been good, however we can also conclude that players like Tage Thompson and Robert Thomas are anomalies, not the norm as we have a significant amount of data from their general selections as well. How the organization values their selection should be indicative of future success regarding future selections, generally speaking you don't move assets who you view as to having 40+ goal potential, Tage is a massive outlier and this is pretty indisputable.

Perhaps they'll hit a homerun with this pick, but statistically, it's simply far less likely to transpire than you're acting due to a couple of obvious outliers.

Actually you're the one that is cherrypicking the draft range and sample size because draft boards transcend rounds. A guy selected 28th by one team could be 35th on another teams board. See McIlrath, Dylan as a prototypical example of how different teams value players differently and why having a rigid draft range is disingenuous.

And once again you are ignoring and failing to address what YOUR DATA said constituted a quality, late first round pick: 100+ NHL games played. See Pocket99s exhaustive list to show the Blues consistently beat this metric.

Stop moving the goalposts by saying it has to be a homerun pick. Your arguments are not even disingenuous anymore, they have slipped into outright dishonesty.

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

If healthy it's a good trade but Damn he's so injury prone.

injury prone? pls explain