Confirmed Trade: [TOR/SEA] Mark Giordano (50% retained) and Colin Blackwell for 2022 2nd, 2023 2nd, 2024 3rd

[Jared Dunn]

Lol this such a horrendous take that it's barely worth a response. 31 teams are not winning the cup this year, no matter how many assets they spent to accomplish that mission. All you can do is use the cap space you have, the assets you have and try to put yourself in a position to compete. Toronto is a playoff team, whose defense core has gotten better through two trades this year, and whose goaltending has gotten worse, simultaneously. Shit happens. Hopefully Dubas can try to address the goaltending tomorrow. Regardless, the Leafs are still not likely a true contender this year, but the Lyubushkin trade and the Giordano trade both made them better, without giving up any assets that are detrimental towards their continued attempt to build a winner.

That's about as an objective a take as it gets, from a partisan fan.

Not to mention, just imagine one of the Florida teams runs into a significant injury and Dubas picked that year to sit on his hands and say "there's not enough out there to get us over the hump"

Doubt he's going to do much on the goaltending front as there just isn't enough available. I wondered about Craig Anderson because of his meager salary and weird ability to seemingly play better behind defensively loose teams lol

 

[Just Linda]

After the Kase injury last night, I'm just hoping he can be a steady contributor for us.

Kase was on pace for a 20+ goal and 40+ point season for us, playing for peanuts on our third line, with the ability to move up the lineup when needed. He just couldn't overcome the head injuries though and the one he suffered last night might very well end his career.

Just hoping that Blackwell can give gives us a little bit of what we lost.

That's a bit much to ask from Blackwell. Blackwell won't be playing in your top 6 (or shouldn't be) but he can bring a lot to your bottom 6.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Not to mention, just imagine one of the Florida teams runs into a significant injury and Dubas picked that year to sit on his hands and say "there's not enough out there to get us over the hump"

Doubt he's going to do much on the goaltending front as there just isn't enough available. I wondered about Craig Anderson because of his meager salary and weird ability to seemingly play better behind defensively loose teams lol

Mrazek and Andersen are good at playing behind loose teams and stopping breakaways, that's the problem. We funnel a lot of shots to the outside and they can't seem to stop harmless looking point shots consistently.

 

[Jared Dunn]

My logic is that they should put an actual effort into changing the dynamic of their team into becoming winners. They've had the same problem for multiple years and have been scale goating the wrong people. Muzzin was a brilliant trade, Brodie was a good signing, I love when they transformed their bottom 6 with Spezza and that bunch. They just never built a winner, they can't seem to identify the pieces that winners have an get them. Gio has great microstats, he's not the piece that wins you a cup though at 38.

The difference between Tampa, Florida, Boston, and Toronto's moves is that the first 3 identified why their team struggled at times and sought to fix that whereas Toronto just grabbed the biggest d name on the market. Florida got someone who just was top pairing on one of the worst teams in decades to make the cup finals, Boston found a dman who fits their system and plays their style better than current options, Tampa added depth that they lost, Toronto added a redundant piece.

Toronto lost the arms race.

Boston still didn't address their primary need of competent secondary scoring, I think the Lindholm move was excellent by them don't get me wrong but if they're done they certainly did not win any arms race

 

[IrishInOntario]

That's a bit much to ask from Blackwell. Blackwell won't be playing in your top 6 (or shouldn't be) but he can bring a lot to your bottom 6.

Don't expect him too. All I'm hoping for is for him to slot onto the 4th line with Spezza. Our third line will likely be Mikheyev / Kampf / Engvall. Not fantastic, but serviceable. Blackwell and Engvall can compete for that 3W spot that Kase is vacating.

Robertson-Spezza-Blackwell might very well be our 4th line.

 

[Just Linda]

Don't expect him too. All I'm hoping for is for him to slot onto the 4th line with Spezza. Our third line will likely be Mikheyev / Kampf / Engvall. Not fantastic, but serviceable. Blackwell and Engvall can compete for that 3W spot that Kase is vacating.

Robertson-Spezza-Blackwell might very well be our 4th line.

Kerfoot on the second line then?

That makes sense. Sounds reasonable.

 

[Daz28]

Lol this such a horrendous take that it's barely worth a response. 31 teams are not winning the cup this year, no matter how many assets they spent to accomplish that mission. All you can do is use the cap space you have, the assets you have and try to put yourself in a position to compete. Toronto is a playoff team, whose defense core has gotten better through two trades this year, and whose goaltending has gotten worse, simultaneously. Shit happens. Hopefully Dubas can try to address the goaltending tomorrow. Regardless, the Leafs are still not likely a true contender this year, but the Lyubushkin trade and the Giordano trade both made them better, without giving up any assets that are detrimental towards their continued attempt to build a winner.

That's about as an objective a take as it gets, from a partisan fan.

I get what you're saying, but you're under the assumption it gets easier as time goes on. I'd argue it gets more difficult. The Leafs core has been in place, and the window SHOULD be open now. They also have given up assets going forward, but none of them are difference makers. Let me ask you this, if they get knocked out of the first round again, will you just sleep well knowing 31 other teams didn't win, or will you then think maybe it's time for a shake up? This Leafs team has talent, and for me the only mission accomplished would be a cup while this window is open.

 

[Rydgar]

Good trade for Toronto especially after seeing the price point for Chiarot.

 

[Jared Dunn]

Mrazek and Andersen are good at playing behind loose teams and stopping breakaways, that's the problem. We funnel a lot of shots to the outside and they can't seem to stop harmless looking point shots consistently.

I think that's fairly off the mark tbh, and putting Andersen and Mrazek in the same box seems disingenuous, Andersen was their MVP almost every year he played in Toronto (last year was a mess of course) and has gone on to thrive in one of the most defensively sound teams in the league, so I really don't think that's it. Mrazek put up some of the worst NHL goalie performances I've ever seen in succession, don't even know where to start with him this year.

 

[seanlinden]

As a Leaf fan, I think the Leafs paid a pretty reasonable price for the defenceman that Giordano is; and the way the market has been going. The fact that the 3rd rounder is a 2024, where the Leafs are keeping WPG's 2022 3rd rounder, seems like a bit of a bonus to me -- as Toronto is obviously woefully short on picks this year and last.

In terms of Colin Blackwell, my preference would've been for a depth player with a bit more size / physicality (Appleton? Sheahan?); but it is what it is... that's never really been the Leafs game in Dubas' tenure unfortunately... obviously, "some" of the value in this deal was towards Blackwell.

That being said, I am concerned with the series of other moves made, notably the apparent unwillingness to use Muzzin's LTIR and bring him back for game 1... I don't believe Giordano does enough; and would have much rather seen them go for a much bigger fish up front.

 

[Leafsfan74]

Francis doesn't seem very good at this "trade negotiations" thing.

Francis: "We want a 1st for Giordano"

Dubas: "We'll give you two 2nds"

Francis: "Add a 3rd and we'll throw in Blackwell and retain 50% on Gio"

Dubas: "Uh ... oh okay, that works too.

It wasn't a bad haul by any stretch of the imagination. He picked up three early round draft picks for two impending UFAs. Is there any other team that would have wanted Blackwell at the deadline?

If it weren't a deadline deal Seattle doesnt receive tnis return. If it wasn't for Florida, Tampa and others overpaying, this looks like a great return.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Kerfoot on the second line then?

That makes sense. Sounds reasonable.

He's going to have to be. Ideally we'd have cap room for a retained JT Miller type, but we don't. That's just reality.

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Kerfoot-Tavares-Nylander
Mikheyev-Kampf-Engvall
Robertson-Spezza-Blackwell
Simmonds

That's likely what it looks like up front. Wish we had room to add top 6 LW and move Kerfoot into Engvall's spot and Engvall into Robertson's, but that's what we've got.

 

[Leafsfan74]

He's going to have to be. Ideally we'd have cap room for a retained JT Miller type, but we don't. That's just reality.

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Kerfoot-Tavares-Nylander
Mikheyev-Kampf-Engvall
Robertson-Spezza-Blackwell
Simmonds

That's likely what it looks like up front. Wish we had room to add top 6 LW and move Kerfoot into Engvall's spot and Engvall into Robertson's, but that's what we've got.

You think Kase is finished?

 

[Daz28]

Boston still didn't address their primary need of competent secondary scoring, I think the Lindholm move was excellent by them don't get me wrong but if they're done they certainly did not win any arms race

You do realize Boston is on fire right now, right? They've only gone pointless in 2 of last 14. I wouldn't expect them to knock the cart over. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see them double back for Rakell, either. In the last 3 weeks the Leafs have lost to Buffalo 5-2 and 5-1. I'd say they have a lot bigger concerns right now than Boston. I mean if they have to at least get Anderson, and hope for lightning in a bottle, right?

 

[Hitemwith4]

its crazy that leafs trade has 44 pages lmao no other thread is this long,

Seems like the leafs are on everyone's mind

 

[Suntouchable13]

Even one series win is not enough. 1 series win in 6 years is simply not good enough. I like the move for Gio, but I don't know what Dubas thinks he has here. The core players do not perform when it matters. How will Gio help? If they don't get to ECF, then either he has to be fired or he will have to move Nylander or Marner.

 

[Dion TheFluff]

He's going to have to be. Ideally we'd have cap room for a retained JT Miller type, but we don't. That's just reality.

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Kerfoot-Tavares-Nylander
Mikheyev-Kampf-Engvall
Robertson-Spezza-Blackwell
Simmonds

That's likely what it looks like up front. Wish we had room to add top 6 LW and move Kerfoot into Engvall's spot and Engvall into Robertson's, but that's what we've got.

Kase? or is he out long term now?

 

[Daz28]

It wasn't a bad haul by any stretch of the imagination. He picked up three early round draft picks for two impending UFAs. Is there any other team that would have wanted Blackwell at the deadline?

If it weren't a deadline deal Seattle doesnt receive tnis return. If it wasn't for Florida, Tampa and others overpaying, this looks like a great return.

Some of these retentions are over valued too. 1.7 for Gio for 20 games isn't a big deal. The only somewhat big retention was John Moore at 2.7 this and next year too. That was a 2nd, which was the same as Ritchie so fair value.

 

[Hitemwith4]

its crazy that leafs trade has 44 pages lmao no other thread is this long,

Seems like the leafs are on everyone's mind

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Ok, so this is a fine trade (especially not giving up a 1st - credit Dubas there), but I don't think it pushes the Leafs over the top. They've been dealt a tough hand in the division they play in. Unless they do something tomorrow to fix the goaltending, I just can't see them beating Tampa or Florida in a 7 game series. I guess if you're Dubas and the Leafs you have to "go for it," so from that perspective the trade makes sense, but if they go out one and done again it'll kind of hurt seeing those 2nd's go for nothing. But I guess that's the risk any contending team takes when bringing in a rental at the deadline.

Methinks Dubas goes after Varlymov. The cap situation is a bit tough right now, and I'm not even sure where it's at, at this point, but Varly will be moved and Dubas obviously knows Lou well. I'd suggest Fleury too but it doesn't sound like he wants to move again.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Good trade for Toronto. No clue what the f*** Holland is doing that he couldn’t make the exact same trade

 

[Deedog99]

Florida and Tampa playing chess. Leafs playing fish. Lol

 

[seanlinden]

My logic is that they should put an actual effort into changing the dynamic of their team into becoming winners. They've had the same problem for multiple years and have been scale goating the wrong people. Muzzin was a brilliant trade, Brodie was a good signing, I love when they transformed their bottom 6 with Spezza and that bunch. They just never built a winner, they can't seem to identify the pieces that winners have an get them. Gio has great microstats, he's not the piece that wins you a cup though at 38.

The difference between Tampa, Florida, Boston, and Toronto's moves is that the first 3 identified why their team struggled at times and sought to fix that whereas Toronto just grabbed the biggest d name on the market. Florida got someone who just was top pairing on one of the worst teams in decades to make the cup finals, Boston found a dman who fits their system and plays their style better than current options, Tampa added depth that they lost, Toronto added a redundant piece.

Toronto lost the arms race.

I think it would have been a lot harder for the Leafs to "fix" their needs than it was / is for the Bruins... simply because of cap space.

The Leafs are very limited in what they can spend on players with term (or on rentals with the vision of resigning them). Boston had cap space, and more importantly, the ability to easily create more in the offseason with a redundant $3m defenceman or two.

The Lightning and Panthers somewhat obliterated their future flexibility by trading all of the draft picks that they did.

- Could the Leafs have gone out and traded for Lawson Crouse? sure.
- Could they have gone out and traded for Connor Murphy (before he got hurt) or Damon Severson? sure.
- Could they have gone out and traded for Marc Andre Fleury? maybe, depending on Fleury's NTC.
- Could they have done all 3? probably yes, esp if they were going to hold off Muzzin until the playoffs.

But... doing so would have likely completely obliterated any and all future flexibility they had. Crouse would have been a 1st+. Murphy or Severson a 1st+ as a well. Fleury, likely one, maybe both of the 2nds they gave up for Giordano.

Should they have taken that route? I think that's the tougher question; as it basically means you're committing yourself to trading a guy like Muzzin in the offseason, and possibly more, to accommodate the raise for Crouse, keeping Murphy/Severson, etc.

Ultimately, my hope is that Giordano is not the only move they make. They were seemingly tactical in today's acquisition(s) -- protecting their 1st this year, protecting all of their prospects, and likely only moving down in this year's draft by about 20 places from late 2nd round to mid-3rd... they very well still could go after a Severson or Crouse.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

The first like 20 pages of this thread are f***ing gold. Bunch of fans, just the toxic type.

 

[Fledgemyhedge]

if they pick up a goalie now they’ll be in decent shape. Is fleury possible? Does he not want to go there?