Confirmed Trade: [TOR/SEA] Mark Giordano (50% retained) and Colin Blackwell for 2022 2nd, 2023 2nd, 2024 3rd

[Isaac Nootin]

I'm saying that because Toronto and Boston are literally 2 points apart, their draft pick values are VERY similar. It's not that hard to comprehend.

Yes it is when you're adding multiple picks, from multiple round, in multiple years.

I'd love to see the math behind your theory though.

Strange hill to die on.

 

[EichHart]

As a Sabres fan I like this trade for the Leafs. They have more than enough offense. Giordano is still a top 4 dman and a veteran for the locker room during their playoff run.

 

[goldnblack]

i don't know what a "true" rental is but I'm pretty sure he's going to be open to signing a cheap extension if the leafs want him going forward

Let us hope it's for 3+ years

 

[Daz28]

I guess the GM's have a magic 8 ball to know where next years pick and the year after are going to land....

also, by your logic Florida traded for Chiarot Hagg Giroux.. could have had Jack E and Lindholm

GM's absolutely have a good idea what value those picks hold. Please stop trying to put words in my mouth with my logic

 

[capfit9]

Solid deal for the Leafs. No 1st rd pick, no prospects. Plus they added some depth with Blackwell.

Sure but they did have to bury a $3.8M Mrazek to make it work

 

[Daz28]

Yes it is when you're adding multiple picks, from multiple round, in multiple years.

I'd love to see the math behind your theory though.

Strange hill to die on.

Sure it gets trickier, but a GM can look at a roster, and get an idea where they'll be next year. Do you think maybe by some chance Colorado will be good next year??? Draft pick value doesn't differ wildly from GM to GM, they leave that to HF posters.

 

[Daz28]

Solid deal for the Leafs. No 1st rd pick, no prospects. Plus they added some depth with Blackwell.

That's the catch here. If they can make a move for some goaltending, and maybe Rakell, then it will make the Gio deal look a lot better. In a vacuum it doesn't do much.

 

[Jared Dunn]

Blackwell could be a sneaky good addition for Toronto, played with Panarin a bit last year did he not? 2nd line could use a guy who will play like a bulldog and feels like he could be that.

It's a pretty fair trade though I think Seattle could have done marginally better with another trade partner, but never the worst idea to show potential future players that you'll make an attempt to keep their best interest in mind

 

[IrishInOntario]

What I find most baffling is that fans of opposing teams spent multiple years bitching at Leafs fans about how they're defense core was terrible and how they had spent all their money on forwards. Dubas goes out this year, in a rather cash strapped position and adds Luybushkin and Giordano, who are obvious upgrades to Toronto's defense core. Such enormous upgrades that it's earth shattering? Of course not, but genuine upgrades regardless, without giving up a 1st round pick, or any of Toronto 4-5 best prospects.

Reilly-Lyubushkin
Giordano-Brodie
Muzzin-Sandin
Liljegren-Holl

That's a legitimate playoff defense core. Is it top of the league good? Of course not, but it's much better than the Leafs had, for a reasonable price.

Of course, however, rather than simply evaluate that fact for what it is, goalposts immediately shift to "Terrible trade.You still can't compete with Tampa Bay and Florida" . That could be objectively true, but that hasn't been the conversation. Dubas has been trying to make the team better defensively and he's undeniably done that, without breaking the bank and while navigating the cap.

Newsflash for the league. One of your team's are going to win the Cup, while most of yours, despite their best efforts, will not. At the end of the day, it's deeply unlikely that if you're reading this (Toronto fans included) that the moves your GM made at the deadline this year will put you over the top. Only the fans of one team will be able to say that... For that reason, I've never seen any point in evaluating a trade beyond what it is and what it was designed to do. In this case, Toronto continues to try to upgrade their top 4. I think this move is a "mission accomplished", at a reasonable price.

 

[Daz28]

Blackwell could be a sneaky good addition for Toronto, played with Panarin a bit last year did he not? 2nd line could use a guy who will play like a bulldog and feels like he could be that.

It's a pretty fair trade though I think Seattle could have done marginally better with another trade partner, but never the worst idea to show potential future players that you'll make an attempt to keep their best interest in mind

Playing on the second line, he may look good, but it's about consistency. Will he be the 9 or 19% shooter or the 46 or 56% FO guy? Doesn't hurt to add him, but he's def not going to be Giroux

 

[david999]

4 million to do what? Get a capable goalie and a dman that can clear the crease/ win battles.

They have the same holes today that they had 2 months ago.

Gio doesn't move the needle for them, he's not the guy who helps them win in the playoffs. 2 years ago he was, anyone who's watched a few of his games can see that he's a step behind nowadays.

They need more players like Muzzin and instead doubled down on the type of player they already had. They didn't get better from this trade and gave up assets to do it.

You claimed the Leafs deal hurt because of assets given up, plus the loss of cap space. When Muzzin returns it will be the best defence they have had in at least 20 years.
Brodie Gio / Reilly Bush/. Muzin Holl/ Sandin Lilly

 

[Just Linda]

Giordano and Blackwell collectively are more of an improvement than Brandon Hagel. Hagel's value is that he's super cheap and signed for years.

Chariot and Lindholm are just insanely overrated imo. The idea that they've significantly improved those teams while Toronto hasn't is just silly but whatever.

Florida getting Giroux was indeed a huge move but they've spent multiple 1sts and still might go out in the 1st, the East is brutal.

Blackwell is a neutral asset. He's a sparkplug sure, but he's small and he's not much more than a tweener. He's a journeyman forward. I hate to say it but Leafs have better players on their 4th line already. He's going to be fine in the role he gets but he's hardly a difference maker, he's a 4th liner.

There's a reason why nobody beat the Leafs offer for Gio. I'd argue the Leafs overpaid for him, he's a depth option at this point. He's going to fit nicely into that second pairing role. That's not the reason people are mocking the trade.

Everyone sees Toronto giving up a lot of goals and a lot of goals from the slot, those are playoff style goals. Toronto needs to be better at that and at winning dman battles. Gio isn't the guy who's going to do that.

They spent assets not improving. The players will fit in nicely but they won't change the complexion of a team that needs serious change to be taken seriously.

 

[bukwas]

A fair deal by the looks of it.
Leafs improve and Seattle gets some needed picks.

 

[Just Linda]

You claimed the Leafs deal hurt because of assets given up, plus the loss of cap space. When Muzzin returns it will be the best defence they have had in at least 20 years.
Brodie Gio / Reilly Bush/. Muzin Holl/ Sandin Lilly

That's the 4th best d group of playoff teams in the Atlantic.

 

[Daz28]

What I find most baffling is that of opposing teams spent multiple years bitching at Leafs fans about how they're defense core terrible and how they had spent all their money on forwards. Dubas goes out this, in a rather cash strapped position and adds Luybushkin and Giordano, who are obvious upgrades to Toronto's defense core. Such enormous upgrades that it's earth shattering? Of course not, but genuine upgrades regardless, without giving up a 1st round pick, or any of Toronto 4-5 best prospects.

Reilly-Lyubushkin
Giordano-Brodie
Muzzin-Sandin
Holl-Liljegren

That'a a legitimate playoff defense core. Is it top of the league good? Of course not, but it's much better than the Leafs had, for a reasonable price.

Of course, however, rather than simply evaluate that fact for what it is, goalposts immediately shift to "Terrible trade.You still can't compete with Tampa Bay and Florida" . That could be objectively true, but that hasn't been the conversation. Dubas has been trying to make the team better defensively and he's undeniably done that, without breaking the bank and while navigating the cap.

Newsflash for the league. One of your team's are going to win the Cup, while most of yours, despite their best efforts, will not. At the end of the day, it's deeply unlikely that if you're reading this (Toronto fans included) that the moves your GM made at the deadline this year will put you over the top. Only the fans of one team will be able to say that... For that reason, I've never seen any point in evaluating a trade beyond what it is and what it was designed to do. I this case, Toronto continues to try to upgrade their top 4. I think this move is a "mission accomplished".

Sounds like you talked yourself into this one. Dubas may still make the necessary decisive moves, but for now it's an Iraq level mission accomplished. Put the banner on the carrier already

 

[david999]

That's the 4th best d group of playoff teams in the Atlantic.

Well by your logic the Leafs should just show up and throw their sticks in the middle of the ice and leave

 

[Jared Dunn]

Playing on the second line, he may look good, but it's about consistency. Will he be the 9 or 19% shooter or the 46 or 56% FO guy? Doesn't hurt to add him, but he's def not going to be Giroux

Nah certainly not, and I really don't know enough about him but the impression I'd gotten out of his time in New York was he's a hard working guy, good skater, not afraid of dirty areas and plays well enough with star players which is what Tavares and Willy probably need most. I thought they might kick tires on Copp but I'd think with this move they're done unless there's a reasonable goalie move out there

 

[TheDoldrums]

Blackwell is a neutral asset. He's a sparkplug sure, but he's small and he's not much more than a tweener. He's a journeyman forward. I hate to say it but Leafs have better players on their 4th line already. He's going to be fine in the role he gets but he's hardly a difference maker, he's a 4th liner.

I mean Kyle Clifford played last night. The only 4th liner they have that might be better is Spezza but they bring such different things. A lot of Rangers fans seemed to like Blackwell when he was there and his underlying stuff in Seattle has been really good, I'm optimistic about him.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Sounds like you talked yourself into this one. Dubas may still make the necessary decisive moves, but for now it's an Iraq level mission accomplished. Purt the banner on the carrier already

Lol this such a horrendous take that it's barely worth a response. 31 teams are not winning the cup this year, no matter how many assets they spent to accomplish that mission. All you can do is use the cap space you have, the assets you have and try to put yourself in a position to compete. Toronto is a playoff team, whose defense core has gotten better through two trades this year, and whose goaltending has gotten worse, simultaneously. Shit happens. Hopefully Dubas can try to address the goaltending tomorrow. Regardless, the Leafs are still not likely a true contender this year, but the Lyubushkin trade and the Giordano trade both made them better, without giving up any assets that are detrimental towards their continued attempt to build a winner.

That's about as an objective a take as it gets, from a partisan fan.

 

[Marmoset]

I think the issue is teams like the Leafs arent true contenders, but theyre the next tier, so they feel obligated to get into these arms races. Of course, they could still go on a run, but with their goaltending, lack of TEAM defense, and lack of offensive depth- they really need a lot to go right for them.

So, these deal dont really move the needle into contender category for them, but again- they feel obligated to get involved in the arms race. Probably wouldve been better hadnt they made all these 'chasing the cup' deals because those cheap rookie contracts can come in handy down the road and it's been pretty clear bandaid fixes like this deal are far unlikely to bring them a cup.

Still, The deal its self is fair for both sides, so Im not shitting on them- a lot of teams get caught up in these traps of buying at the deadlines when the team is a classic case of being good but not good enough.

They may or may not be contenders but every indication is that they believe they are. Therefore, in their minds they wouldn't be making a deal out of obligation like you say, but because this gives them a better chance to win the Cup.

You somewhat allude to what I see as the problem. It's not any one deal, but it's the cumulative effect of making these deals over multiple seasons. The lack of those draft picks and rookie contracts impacts future deals. Of course, if the Leafs experience significant playoff success then it's worth it, so we will have to wait and see what happens this spring.

 

[Amadeus]

I was in the no trading 1st rounders, Matt Knies, Nick Robertson, Topi Niemela camp, and to acquire a top 4 RHD, along with a depth bottom six piece without giving up any of those is an astute move from Kyle Dubas. I'm impressed!

 

[The Marquis]

Blackwell has been one of the guys us Kraken fans have actually liked pretty consistently. He and Gourde had tremendous chemistry so we're sad to see him go. Hoping the Kraken re-sign him in FA.

 

[Just Linda]

Well by your logic the Leafs should just show up and throw their sticks in the middle of the ice and leave

My logic is that they should put an actual effort into changing the dynamic of their team into becoming winners. They've had the same problem for multiple years and have been scale goating the wrong people. Muzzin was a brilliant trade, Brodie was a good signing, I love when they transformed their bottom 6 with Spezza and that bunch. They just never built a winner, they can't seem to identify the pieces that winners have an get them. Gio has great microstats, he's not the piece that wins you a cup though at 38.

The difference between Tampa, Florida, Boston, and Toronto's moves is that the first 3 identified why their team struggled at times and sought to fix that whereas Toronto just grabbed the biggest d name on the market. Florida got someone who just was top pairing on one of the worst teams in decades to make the cup finals, Boston found a dman who fits their system and plays their style better than current options, Tampa added depth that they lost, Toronto added a redundant piece.

Toronto lost the arms race.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Blackwell has been one of the guys us Kraken fans have actually liked pretty consistently. He and Gourde had tremendous chemistry so we're sad to see him go. Hoping the Kraken re-sign him in FA.

After the Kase injury last night, I'm just hoping he can be a steady contributor for us.

Kase was on pace for a 20+ goal and 40+ point season for us, playing for peanuts on our third line, with the ability to move up the lineup when needed. He just couldn't overcome the head injuries though and the one he suffered last night might very well end his career.

Just hoping that Blackwell can give gives us a little bit of what we lost.

 

[Just Linda]

I mean Kyle Clifford played last night. The only 4th liner they have that might be better is Spezza but they bring such different things. A lot of Rangers fans seemed to like Blackwell when he was there and his underlying stuff in Seattle has been really good, I'm optimistic about him.

You should be. He's a good 4th liner, he's a good depth pickup for a playoff team. Even though he's small, he's an energetic player. He's east to root for lol.

He's not a difference maker at all but getting him snuck in the trade was good thinking by Dubas. I'll criticize the trade overall but getting Blackwell as part of it was nice.