Confirmed Trade: [TOR/PHI] Scott Laughton (50% retained), 4th round pick, 6th round pick for Nikita Grebenkin, cond. 2027 1st round pick

[The Shadow]

Dude it is WAY to soon to judge the trade.

It's been 9 days since he was acquired.

Like I said that 1st round pick isn't even going to be used until 2027, AND It's top 10 protected so it could be 2028.

We aren't going to be able to judge this trade for years.

We certainly can't judge it after 9 days

Demoted to the 4th line for tonight. Woohoo!

 

[AvroArrow]

He's been the worst player on the ice in maybe every single game.

We got scammed.

 

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

A 1st round pick for Scott Laughton LOL

Philly got to LAUGH a TON when Toronto offered a 1st for Laughton. LOL

 

[Leaf Fans]

A 1st round pick for Scott Laughton LOL

Philly got to LAUGH a TON when Toronto offered a 1st for Laughton. LOL

Probably not.

 

[Kshahdoo]

And Grebenkin scored in his first game for Phantoms...

 

[Leaf Fans]

And Grebenkin scored in his first game for Phantoms...

Good. He is a good player.

 

[bossram]

The Leafs have just got progressively worse year-by-year as they've leaned more and more into the gritensity/truculence model. They were better when they just freewheeled offensively.

They're problem forever has been scoring in the playoffs, and they keep trading more and more assets for guys who contribute negatively offensively. Like, it's baffling.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Dude it is WAY to soon to judge the trade.

It's been 9 days since he was acquired.

Like I said that 1st round pick isn't even going to be used until 2027, AND It's top 10 protected so it could be 2028.

We aren't going to be able to judge this trade for years.

We certainly can't judge it after 9 days

Doesn't matter what the pick becomes, it matters what value that pick had. Its one less thing the Leafs can use to improve their team going forward.

Certainly not to early to judge the trade.

 

[prototypical4thliner]

I think just about every flyer fan would have warned potential buyers Laughton just isn’t a great center. His most effective playing time has been at wing over the last two to three years.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Doesn't matter what the pick becomes, it matters what value that pick had. Its one less thing the Leafs can use to improve their team going forward.

Certainly not to early to judge the trade.

Of course it matters what the pick becomes.

If the pick is a top 6 forward, maybe even a star player then obviously It's a shit trade.

If the player does nothing in the league then It's a good deal.

And It's top 10 protected so if things did fall apart, due to injury or whatever then they keep the pick.

The chances of it becoming a bad trade are VERY low.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

If things are that bad for the Leafs a mere two years from now, being a potential lottery team, then they've got a lot more to worry about than Scott Laughton.

Agreed I don't expect it at all.

But maybe the injury bug hits and it falls apart for a year.

The pick is protected so the chances of it becoming a bad trade are VERY low

 

[Leaf Fans]

Agreed I don't expect it at all.

But maybe the injury bug hits and it falls apart for a year.

The pick is protected so the chances of it becoming a bad trade are VERY low

Sure, it might happen.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Sure, it might happen.

That's my point even if It did who cares? the pick is top 10 protected.

Chances are it won't be a top 10 pick so the player drafted isn't going to help them until about 2030 if ever.

It's damn near impossible for the Leafs to lose this trade.

 

[newsportsfan123]

The Leafs have just got progressively worse year-by-year as they've leaned more and more into the gritensity/truculence model. They were better when they just freewheeled offensively.

They're problem forever has been scoring in the playoffs, and they keep trading more and more assets for guys who contribute negatively offensively. Like, it's baffling.

They abandoned the analytical approach. They could use analytics to scout actual good players who are tall and can play in the bottom-6 if they wanted grit for the playoffs.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Grebenkin with 2 goals in 2 games in the AHL, but is somehow -4. He was -1 in 39 games in Toronto.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

They abandoned the analytical approach. They could use analytics to scout actual good players who are tall and can play in the bottom-6 if they wanted grit for the playoffs.

The Kyle Dubas analytical approach was abandoned yes, because it failed miserably.

And It's not going any better in Pittsburgh

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

He's been the worst player on the ice in maybe every single game.

We got scammed.

Nope. Guess again.

You guys just bought high for the millionth f***ing time. Sad. I don't know why your org is so obsessed with doing business that way. Could've had a couple great teams by now, but y'all are just content losing in round 1 or 2 it seems contrary to making actual noise.

 

[Norwegianoiler]

Of course it matters what the pick becomes.

If the pick is a top 6 forward, maybe even a star player then obviously It's a shit trade.

If the player does nothing in the league then It's a good deal.

And It's top 10 protected so if things did fall apart, due to injury or whatever then they keep the pick.

The chances of it becoming a bad trade are VERY low.

This is obviously an understandable viewpoint, but philosophically problematic. Judging only in hindsight leaves room for the best trade ever to be giving away McDavid for a 7th in the scenario where you by some chance draft Super-McDavid in his place. You may say "it turned out better" for one team or the other based on what comes along in the future, sure, but does it not matter what information was available at the time as well?

I'd still say I was making an unwise choice if I bet all my savings on roulette-green and won. It was not my skill, but luck that saved me. Now, the difference is that while roulette is odds only, the draft may be influenced in some way by skill. Does that mean if you trade your high pick to a team with terrible scouting, that you have done a better job because they will fumble the pick?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

This is obviously an understandable viewpoint, but philosophically problematic. Judging only in hindsight leaves room for the best trade ever to be giving away McDavid for a 7th in the scenario where you by some chance draft Super-McDavid in his place. You may say "it turned out better" for one team or the other based on what comes along in the future, sure, but does it not matter what information was available at the time as well?

I'd still say I was making an unwise choice if I bet all my savings on roulette-green and won. It was not my skill, but luck that saved me. Now, the difference is that while roulette is odds only, the draft may be influenced in some way by skill. Does that mean if you trade your high pick to a team with terrible scouting, that you have done a better job because they will fumble the pick?

I can't say yes to that definitively but it certainly increases the chances.


If you get better use out of that pick then you have done a better job.

Now some risks are Just plan stupid like your example of trading Mcdavid for a 7th round pick.

But I would ask if you DID take that 7th round pick and you somehow DID draft super Mcdavid and super Mcdavid puts up 250 points a year how could you argue with that result?

I will also say this because I forgot to mention it in the post you qouted.

If the Leafs win a championship I don't care if the Flyers draft the next Gretzky.

Because a championship trumps all.

 

[Norwegianoiler]

I can't say yes to that definitively but it certainly increases the chances.


If you get better use out of that pick then you have done a better job.

Now some risks are Just plan stupid like your example of trading Mcdavid for a 7th round pick.

But I would ask if you DID take that 7th round pick and you somehow DID draft super Mcdavid and super Mcdavid puts up 250 points a year how could you argue with that result?

I will also say this because I forgot to mention it in the post you qouted.

If the Leafs win a championship I don't care if the Flyers draft the next Gretzky.

Because a championship trumps all.

I couldn't argue with the result, but I surely wouldn't hire someone as GM based on such a decision, as it was chance alone that saved the decision from being horrendous.

Similarly, if I offered you 10 dollars for your house, you'd be stupid to take the deal. But if you used the 10 dollars on a lottery ticket and won, you'd be a genius? I don't see how that makes sense.

Championships does make everything better, but does it not matter if, for example, the player you traded for contributed nothing to the victory? You still won, and that's the bottom line, but if you were offered to reverse the deal, you'd likely still take the pick back. At least that's in line with the result-oriented evaluation of individual actions.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

They abandoned the analytical approach. They could use analytics to scout actual good players who are tall and can play in the bottom-6 if they wanted grit for the playoffs.

limited selections over the years trying to contend and you make it sound like its just easy to just find good players in the draft. you never know how a player with turn out especially since most take around 5 years to develop to NHL level

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I couldn't argue with the result, but I surely wouldn't hire someone as GM based on such a decision, as it was chance alone that saved the decision from being horrendous.

Similarly, if I offered you 10 dollars for your house, you'd be stupid to take the deal. But if you used the 10 dollars on a lottery ticket and won, you'd be a genius? I don't see how that makes sense.

Championships does make everything better, but does it not matter if, for example, the player you traded for contributed nothing to the victory? You still won, and that's the bottom line, but if you were offered to reverse the deal, you'd likely still take the pick back. At least that's in line with the result-oriented evaluation of individual actions.

If the Leafs win a championship in let's say the next 5 years I won't care what Philadelphia or Boston does with those picks.

I Just want see a damn championship

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

limited selections over the years trying to contend and you make it sound like its just easy to just find good players in the draft. you never know how a player with turn out especially since most take around 5 years to develop to NHL level

Exactly not every player becomes Matthew Knies.

 

[newsportsfan123]

limited selections over the years trying to contend and you make it sound like its just easy to just find good players in the draft. you never know how a player with turn out especially since most take around 5 years to develop to NHL level

Yes, you are not completely wrong. I don’t think it’s very hard to find a prospect in the draft if you just follow the Byron Bader model. Most guys who put up big points in their first year turn out to be good players and sometimes GMs pass over them because of size. I think Cole Reschny and Ben Kindel will be the players that fit that status this year. Outside of Petan and Patrick, most of these guys have became at the very least NHL players. We will see in a couple of seasons though if the others become productive NHLers. There’s nothing wrong with not drafting players who don’t put up a lot of points in their draft year, but I think the safe option is to draft based on points rather than athleticism/eye test. Why else do you think the Canes draft so well?

 

[newsportsfan123]

The Kyle Dubas analytical approach was abandoned yes, because it failed miserably.

And It's not going any better in Pittsburgh

I think Dubas abandoned the approach towards the end and I don’t even think he was very analytical in his moves anyway. A lot of the players he signed and drafted weren’t even good analytically. Canes have always built their bottom-6 based on analytics, whereas Dubas towards the end seeked out players like Clifford, Giordano, Muzzin, Holl.