Confirmed Trade: [TOR/PHI] Scott Laughton (50% retained), 4th round pick, 6th round pick for Nikita Grebenkin, cond. 2027 1st round pick

[Twine Tickler]

It was always going to be an overpayment for Laughts unfortunately. That said, we have seen this story time and time again with GTA/Ontario born/raised players who are brought in with heightened expectations. It takes time for most of them to loosen the grip on the stick, and once they do they tend to show their worth.

Domi and Bertuzzi are the 2 that instantly come to mind.

I am not expecting Laughton to be a 50pt player. But I do expect him to turn a corner here shortly once he gets out of his own way. Just needs a bounce.

that said, we are almost guaranteed to lose this deal long term, but that is just the cost of competing. Not gunna lose sleep over it

 

[HockeyVirus]

Right now it appears to be a terrible trade which makes you wonder if our scouts even viewed the player and if they did and this is what he brings they should be fired.

BUT

Like others said it has been 10 days. Ultimately, we will see with 2 playoff runs with him what value he adds to the bottom 6. Certainly he is not soft which is a nice change from the Robertson (not exactly soft just small), Jarnkrok, Kampf, Holmberg, etc type bottom 6ers.

I think it is equally stupid to go into the Carlo thread declaring a victory because he played 4 games and 3 of them were really good. Just too soon.

 

[TheDoldrums]

I think Dubas abandoned the approach towards the end and I don’t even think he was very analytical in his moves anyway. A lot of the players he signed and drafted weren’t even good analytically. Canes have always built their bottom-6 based on analytics, whereas Dubas towards the end seeked out players like Clifford, Giordano, Muzzin, Holl.

Huh? Giordano, Muzzin and Holl typically had great analytics

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Yes, you are not completely wrong. I don’t think it’s very hard to find a prospect in the draft if you just follow the Byron Bader model. Most guys who put up big points in their first year turn out to be good players and sometimes GMs pass over them because of size. I think Cole Reschny and Ben Kindel will be the players that fit that status this year. Outside of Petan and Patrick, most of these guys have became at the very least NHL players. We will see in a couple of seasons though if the others become productive NHLers. There’s nothing wrong with not drafting players who don’t put up a lot of points in their draft year, but I think the safe option is to draft based on points rather than athleticism/eye test. Why else do you think the Canes draft so well?

You just cant predict exactly where a player will be in 5 years and how their development will go, you can make the best pick to your abilities but its on the player to turn into something. its all a crap shoot and Canes have had alot of busts as well they have done well but they arent perfect. it's not easy to just draft NHLers. hell its not even easy towards the end of the 1st round in most cases.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I think Dubas abandoned the approach towards the end and I don’t even think he was very analytical in his moves anyway. A lot of the players he signed and drafted weren’t even good analytically. Canes have always built their bottom-6 based on analytics, whereas Dubas towards the end seeked out players like Clifford, Giordano, Muzzin, Holl.

Muzzin wasn't towards the end he was Dubas's first big trade.

Dubas came in as GM in 2018, Muzzin was January 2019.

 

[quietbruinfan]

I always liked Laughton but he looks cooked.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Muzzin wasn't towards the end he was Dubas's first big trade.

Dubas came in as GM in 2018, Muzzin was January 2019.

Pretty crazy how under rated Muzzin still is. Leaf fans screamed from the roof tops how great he was for us and fans still pretend he was bad. Just because his career ended due to injuries doesn't mean he didn't give us 2+ years of top pair play

 

[cupdreaming]

Laughton has been awful but he was brought in for the playoffs. Score one big goal and all will be forgotten

 

[The Shadow]

The only positive thing I’ve seen Laughton do is last night in New York he drove the puck to the net for a scoring chance.

That’s it. He’s been more of a negative by far actually being responsible for several goals against

 

[newsportsfan123]

You just cant predict exactly where a player will be in 5 years and how their development will go, you can make the best pick to your abilities but its on the player to turn into something. its all a crap shoot and Canes have had alot of busts as well they have done well but they arent perfect. it's not easy to just draft NHLers. hell its not even easy towards the end of the 1st round in most cases.

Yes you can't predict where players will be. However, what I am saying is if you go by historical production and compare it to some of these players putting up numbers in these leagues, these guys often turn out to be NHLers. If I am a GM I am drafting the guy with the top production in the WHL in his draft year (unless he has major skating issues), because these guys like I said before turn out to become NHLers outside of Petan and Patrick and even they played NHL games. Reschny and Kindel have potential to be the next Seth Jarvis. They are hard working players who are good on both sides of the ice (Reschny mainly) and aren't going to be drafted top-15 because of size. Also, there is no way of drafting perfect, but the Canes take risk on these players and they pay off more than not. I guess we will see what happens with Artamonov and Poirier.

 

[FerrisRox]

Pretty crazy how under rated Muzzin still is. Leaf fans screamed from the roof tops how great he was for us and fans still pretend he was bad. Just because his career ended due to injuries doesn't mean he didn't give us 2+ years of top pair play

Are you responding to posts that nobody else is seeing?

Who is telling you that Jake Muzzin was a bad player? Fans are quite aware of Jake Muzzin. He was a huge contributor to the Los Angeles Kings cup championship club in 2014.

You are so desperate to play the victim now your manufacturing things to be outraged about with your Leafs?

 

[CraigBillington]

That's my point even if It did who cares? the pick is top 10 protected.

Chances are it won't be a top 10 pick so the player drafted isn't going to help them until about 2030 if ever.

It's damn near impossible for the Leafs to lose this trade.

The big downside for the Leafs in this is that it takes a significant bullet out of the chamber for next year's deadline. Value of what Philadelphia might gain in five years is irrelevant when it hurts the Leafs chances at making a significant trade in a year

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Yes you can't predict where players will be. However, what I am saying is if you go by historical production and compare it to some of these players putting up numbers in these leagues, these guys often turn out to be NHLers. If I am a GM I am drafting the guy with the top production in the WHL in his draft year (unless he has major skating issues), because these guys like I said before turn out to become NHLers outside of Petan and Patrick and even they played NHL games. Reschny and Kindel have potential to be the next Seth Jarvis. They are hard working players who are good on both sides of the ice (Reschny mainly) and aren't going to be drafted top-15 because of size. Also, there is no way of drafting perfect, but the Canes take risk on these players and they pay off more than not. I guess we will see what happens with Artamonov and Poirier.

No you cant, you dont have a crystal ball, would you have passed on drafting Amirov because he would pass away?
putting up big numbers in jr doesnt always result in good players either, fact is most bust and I HIGHLY doubt you would be this draft guru,

I take part a dynasty draft and we do our draft before the NHL does and I have heard many just like you before and guess what you look back at their 5 year draft history and most never even get a single game.

its not easy to just pick NHLers at really any point in the draft, around 15-20 is where it starts to turn into a crapshoot and the odds get worse the further you go

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Right now it appears to be a terrible trade which makes you wonder if our scouts even viewed the player and if they did and this is what he brings they should be fired.

BUT

Like others said it has been 10 days. Ultimately, we will see with 2 playoff runs with him what value he adds to the bottom 6. Certainly he is not soft which is a nice change from the Robertson (not exactly soft just small), Jarnkrok, Kampf, Holmberg, etc type bottom 6ers.

I think it is equally stupid to go into the Carlo thread declaring a victory because he played 4 games and 3 of them were really good. Just too soon.

It is, the early returns on Carlo have been significantly better he's been great.

But much like Laughton It's been 2 weeks.

It's far to early to judge.

 

[nbwingsfan]

That's my point even if It did who cares? the pick is top 10 protected.

Chances are it won't be a top 10 pick so the player drafted isn't going to help them until about 2030 if ever.

It's damn near impossible for the Leafs to lose this trade.

So by this logic if you traded the Wings a 1st round pick in 2029 for Tyler Motte it would be impossible for the Leafs to lose that trade?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

So by this logic if you traded the Wings a 1st round pick in 2029 for Tyler Motte it would be impossible for the Leafs to lose that trade?

Well are their protections on the picks like there are with the 2027 pick?

Because that's what makes it almost impossible to lose the trade, the fact that in the event that it does fall apart they keep the pick.

Also that's not even a good example because Scott Laughton is a much MUCH better hockey player then Tyler Motte

 

[nbwingsfan]

Well are their protections on the picks like there are with the 2027 pick?

Because that's what makes it almost impossible to lose the trade, the fact that in the event that it does fall apart they keep the pick.

Also that's not even a good example because Scott Laughton is a much MUCH better hockey player then Tyler Motte

But you’re saying that just because a player won’t help you for another 5+ years that there’s no way you can lose the trade.

So to re word it. Would the say 26th overall pick in 2028 mean it’s impossible for the Leafs to lose a trade regardless of who they target?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

But you’re saying that just because a player won’t help you for another 5+ years that there’s no way you can lose the trade.

So to re word it. Would the say 26th overall pick in 2028 mean it’s impossible for the Leafs to lose a trade regardless of who they target?

Well first of all if you read my actual post I have said almost impossible.

But to answer the question I would be comfortable giving up the 26th overall pick for most players.

I mean I'm not going to give that up for say Ryan Reaves because Ryan Reaves is not a regular NHL player, he's not capable of playing everyday.

But if you asked me would I give up 26th overall for Ryan Danoto, or Kyle Palmeri, or JG Pageau.

If a player with those skkill sets were available yeah I would.

Because that player makes me better now.

That 26th overall pick doesn't make me better now and there probably at least 50% chance he never will.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Well first of all if you read my actual post I have said almost impossible.

But to answer the question I would be comfortable giving up the 26th overall pick for most players.

I mean I'm not going to give that up for say Ryan Reaves because Ryan Reaves is not a regular NHL player, he's not capable of playing everyday.

But if you asked me would I give up 26th overall for Ryan Danoto, or Kyle Palmeri, or JG Pageau.

If a player with those skkill sets were available yeah I would.

Because that player makes me better now.

That 26th overall pick doesn't make me better now and there probably at least 50% chance he never will.

But Scott Laughton doesn't make you better. Some might argue he makes you worse. He's cooked.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

But Scott Laughton doesn't make you better. Some might argue he makes you worse. He's cooked.

And those people are wrong.

Those people would have called Brandon Carlo cooked after his first game because he debuted in the 7-4 loss to Colorado and that wasn't a good night for anybody.

Since then Carlo has been fantastic.

It takes time to judge a trade and you can't do over 2 years before that pick is made.

And you certainly can't judge a trade 2 weeks after It's made.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

And those people are wrong.

Those people would have called Brandon Carlo cooked after his first game because he debuted in the 7-4 loss to Colorado and that wasn't a good night for anybody.

Since then Carlo has been fantastic.

It takes time to judge a trade and you can't do over 2 years before that pick is made.

And you certainly can't judge a trade 2 weeks after It's made.

You can certainly tell that he's cooked. He was cooked coming into this trade. The return the Flyers got was an absolute fleecing. Unbelievable.

 

[The Burdened]

you should never be trading first round picks for bottom 6 players

 

[Martin Skoula]

you should never be trading first round picks for bottom 6 players

I get it if you’re in a sellers market for a guy with some sort of standout trait like a Nick Paul or a prime Grabner/Hagelin that gives your bottom 6 a completely different look. A different flavor of average is never worth it.

 

[Puckstuff]

And those people are wrong.

Those people would have called Brandon Carlo cooked after his first game because he debuted in the 7-4 loss to Colorado and that wasn't a good night for anybody.

Since then Carlo has been fantastic.

It takes time to judge a trade and you can't do over 2 years before that pick is made.

And you certainly can't judge a trade 2 weeks after It's made.

The people who are calling the Laughton trade a bust after 7 games don’t have a clue. But it’s hfboards after all.

Obviously Laughton hasn’t played well and he hasn’t meshed with the team yet, but there’s still time to find a line that works for him and to get him going. I’ll judge the trade by December next season, not now.