Confirmed with Link: [TOR/OTT] Matt Murray (25% retention), a 3rd in 2023 and a 7th in 2024 for Future Considerations.

[RoadWarrior]

I'm genuinely shocked at the amount of fans that have been able to rationalize and see the logic in Kyle's previous moves. There's definitely some, and they are a vocal crowd, but there are way more than I thought that blindly trusted everything he has done to date.

It's normal human psychology to try and rationalize what cannot be rationalized if people feel powerless to do anything because the alternative is feeling pain.

People want to believe the best in others or assign those characteristics to them even with an absence of evidence supporting it.

The bottom line is that Dubas has failed to address the elephant in the room on this team and that is he overpaid star players in a flat cap world which is hurting their ability to remain competitive.

Everything he's done since is just band aid solutions. In that sense the Murray move is entirely consistent with everything else he's done.

 

[rocketman588]

That's another risk with Husso, he just lost his starting job.

No clue which is best, but every goalie available has some risk attached to them.

I mean if we're going with the low term goalie that's a risk it's better to get the one that hasn't been injured for three years.

Giving him credit for getting a "low term goalie" is stupid when there were ones with way fewer risks

Just get Reimer at that point and you can have a low term goalie making nothing. Then we can all applaud him for being a team player.

 

[notbias]

They can't afford any significant UFA d-man. Schenn could be a trade option making only $800k, but I doubt he wants to leave Vancouver and I doubt they move him as he's more valuable next to Hughes than he is anywhere else. Those two were great together in both of Schenn's Vancouver stints

They have 4 million in cap space with a 20-man roster right now... who costs more than 5-6 million, that we want?

I mean if we're going with the low term goalie that's a risk it's better to get the one that hasn't been injured for three years.

Giving him credit for getting a "low term goalie" is stupid when there were ones with way fewer risks

Just get Reimer at that point and you can have a low term goalie making nothing. Then we can all applaud him for being a team player.

I don't see a good option, I don't like the option we chose either, I really don't know what to do, but Husso was not the answer.

 

[rocketman588]

Well in that scenario they would give up a draft pick and have to sign an extra year.

In this case they gain two draft picks, with one less year.

Husso has nice numbers but is 27, with 66 games under his belt. And he wasn’t that good in the playoffs.

Who’s a bigger risk? Hard to say but the Leafs at least gained assets in assuming their risk.

It’s almost the same with Georgiev

Tht difference is it's the same cap hit for a guy who is at least guaranteed to play games for you.

Murray gets hurt we're blowing assets anyways.

 

[Trapper]

Worth noting the eldest goalie here - Forsberg - has just 102 NHL career games played. Will he replicate his career best level of play as he did last season? Or will he regress significantly? I wouldn't feel comfortable better on either option with certainty

Forsberg could certainly be a question mark as well.
The difference, Ottawa does not have the expectations of the Leafs and shed nearly 5 million to put in other areas.
We are taking the same question mark and removing 5 million in other areas. If it works, it’s great.
Both teams are gambling, only Ottawa won’t be burnt as bad if it fails.

 

[rocketman588]

They have 4 million in cap space with a 20-man roster right now... who costs more than 5-6 million, that we want?



I don't see a good option, I don't like the option we chose either, I really don't know what to do, but Husso was not the answer.

He may not be the answer but he's a better answer then the solution that we came up with

 

[notbias]

He may not be the answer but he's a better answer then the solution that we came up with

I guess it depends, I am not convinced he does. Murray has higher upside for sure.

 

[Go4soda]

he gave up our 1st to get out from under his mrazek signing, and then traded for a more expensive mrazek.. kk

 

[Nineteen67]

Mrazek has chronic groin issues. That’s never going to get better, and will be a risk every time he stretches to make a save.

Murray has a history of concussion issues. Sure, that’s bad, but as long as he doesn’t get run, it’s not a risk of a re-occurring injury, by moving the wrong way.

Campbell’s biggest risk is his mental health. He’s shown a history of not being in the right place mentally, to excel as an athlete. Campbell wanted five years, which is far too much term to gamble on, given the history.

So the choices, within these three, was to gamble on a wonky groin, someone with concussion history, or someone struggling with mental health wanting a five year term.

To me, assuming all else is equal, the two year term is the lower risk, and I’d choose concussion risk, over chronic groin risk. The groin will fail, that is guaranteed. The concussion risk, depends on getting hit, so less absolute.

But if someone hits him, they better pay. Douglas?

Also, not defending the trade, it should have been far better.

The real issue is that he’s pretty much left with these options because of how he’s managed the cap.

 

[rocketman588]

So the excuses are now
- there were few options
- goalies are voodoo
- we had terrible goaltending last year
- it's only 2 years
- he had better stats in 1/2 the games compared to Soup
- someone will overpay for Soup, Dubas didn't

"He's putting the team ahead of the job by only having this horrific contract on the books for two years"

 

[Nineteen67]

I believe this season they would be paid tomorrow.

From the 2021-22 Transition rules
"Any contract “extensions” entered into following the execution of these 2021-22 Transition Rules that begin with the 2022-23 season and provide for Signing Bonus attributable to the 2022- 23 season, may not provide for Signing Bonus payments in advance of July 13, 2022. "

Thanks for that. That’s a good thing.

 

[RoadWarrior]

You don't think it's simply because he played in the Soo? I think that's the be all and end all of the matter. Don't think the 2 years left was even a thought.

The Soo connection was definitely a factor. No question there but I think term was an equal consideration.

 

[Menzinger]

Forsberg could certainly be a question mark as well.
The difference, Ottawa does not have the expectations of the Leafs and shed nearly 5 million to put in other areas.
We are taking the same question mark and removing 5 million in other areas. If it works, it’s great.
Both teams are gambling, only Ottawa won’t be burnt as bad if it fails.

Though the Leafs aren't the only competitive team making gambles on their goaltending. The defending champs front office decided it was best to go with an untested younger guy too - which is pretty telling of the goalie market as a whole. Other than maybe a couple of guys around the league, nothing is a sure thing for that position.

Doesn't make the Dubas' front office free of criticism of the deal. But any available option so far comes with big question marks

 

[Menzinger]

Tht difference is it's the same cap hit for a guy who is at least guaranteed to play games for you.

Murray gets hurt we're blowing assets anyways.

If Murray is hurt they can stash him away on LTIR and go from there.

If Husso plays like rubbish, being healthy doesn't matter. If anything it makes it harder to find a solution

 

[Neutrinos]

I have to believe that Dubas and Murray have spoken, and they have an understanding that if he struggles in Toronto, he's going on LTIR

So, with that in mind, it's an acceptable gamble by the Leafs provided they can acquire a #1 in-season if Murray falters

 

[Mess]

What if Woll is good?

They knew they had goaltending issues 6 yrs ago - and didn’t fix it - at this point what’s the diff between throwing the Woll/Kallgren dart or some other one?

Wouldn't be surprised.. Almost be quite fitting really.

In 2016 entry draft Lou Lam drafted generational franchise #1C Matthews the NHL's Hart trophy MVP in the 1st and he drafted Joseph Woll [round 3 #62 overall 2016 NHL Entry Draft].

Matthews can carry the Leafs upfront and Woll can be Leafs goalie of the future and carry them from the back end.

 

[Fogelhund]

The real issue is that he’s pretty much left with these options because of how he’s managed the cap.

I mean... are there really any better choices in UFA?

2024 NHL Free Agents

Tracking the status and signings of all NHL free agents.

www.spotrac.com

I'd say no. We can all come up with better choices, but they are all still with their existing teams...

 

[Funk21]

Just some food for thought, Campbell had the worst Sv% of high danger chances out of 32 starters in the NHL. If EDM is willing to pay him 5+ on a 5 year deal good luck with that.

I’m not dismissing the fact that this Murray trade was not very good from a retention stand point and what we squeezed out of Dorian in terms of picks. There are a lot of if and buts. That is if Murray regains his form and stays healthy this trade will be looked favourably.

 

[DueDiligence]

Some wanted Forsberg at the TDL but Sens extended him. More proof that Sens were moving on from Murray. Dubas blew the negotiations but it is what it is. Until we see Murray in action this trade is going to sting.

Murray played a number of very good games last year for the Sens but he did have an issue with getting injured and missing significant time on fairly "innocent" plays. He also seemed to lose the support of the room last season and the team rallied around Forsberg.

 

[rocketman588]

I guess it depends, I am not convinced he does. Murray has higher upside for sure.

Murray is also the biggest risk of any one we could have gotten however.

He's a bigger risk then us getting two dudes at 1.5 in an attempt to go all in on spending in every other area but goaltending.

Dude hasn't played more then 40 games since 2018 and he was not great that year.

We picked the biggest gamble on the board

 

[Sypher04]

So the excuses are now
- there were few options
- goalies are voodoo
- we had terrible goaltending last year
- it's only 2 years
- he had better stats in 1/2 the games compared to Soup
- someone will overpay for Soup, Dubas didn't

there are undeniable risks here that precisely no one is ignoring, but what of the bolded isn’t true?

 

[Nineteen67]

They have 4 million in cap space with a 20-man roster right now... who costs more than 5-6 million, that we want?



I don't see a good option, I don't like the option we chose either, I really don't know what to do, but Husso was not the answer.

if you include Engvall (1.25) and Kallgren (750) they have 19 players and 4.36 million left.

 

[notbias]

Murray is also the biggest risk of any one we could have gotten however.

He's a bigger risk then us getting two dudes at 1.5 in an attempt to go all in on spending in every other area but goaltending.

Dude hasn't played more then 40 games since 2018 and he was not great that year.

We picked the biggest gamble on the board

No argument there, we chose the highest risk and highest reward, let us see what happens. Hopefully, it works out.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Wouldn't be surprised.. Almost be quite fitting really.

In 2016 entry draft Lou Lam drafted generational franchise #1C Matthews the NHL's Hart trophy MVP in the 1st and he drafted Joseph Woll [round 3 #62 overall 2016 NHL Entry Draft].

Matthews can carry the Leafs upfront and Woll can be Leafs goalie of the future and carry them from the back end.

I'd just like to congratulate Josef Woll for becoming the next starter for the TML. Murray gets 30 games next season. Woll probably gets most of the rest.

 

[rocketman588]

if you include Engvall (1.25) and Kallgren (750) they have 19 players and 4.36 million left.

That cap hit also includes Robertson/Wayne and Clifford all of who we might have to pay to upgrade over