Confirmed Signing with Link: [TOR] John Tavares signs with the Leafs (7 years, $11M AAV) Part III

[boredmale]

When you're in a good spot but considering jumping to something better you don't rock the boat until you're sure, then you give your notice. He had a script he had to follow unless he wanted to burn a bridge that he wanted open.

That's exactly how it feels, he basically used us to get what he wanted then f'd us over

 

[AppsSyl]

Have a link? That sounds like pure gold as far as I'm concerned. Can't bump it either due to it being locked.

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/isles-may-have-good-news-on-john-tavares-as-well.2505921/

 

[Dustin]

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/isles-may-have-good-news-on-john-tavares-as-well.2505921/

Thank you. Get my laughs for the day.

 

[Tavares to Marner]

Funny how his contract wasn't a problem when the Islanders were offering him 8 years on the same cap hit of $11 mill. But now when he's signed with the leafs, it's suddenly a contract that might be a problem.

you'll never see anyone mention this

11 mill for an open UFA elite - borderline franchise center is completely fair, not good but not bad

 

[Cor]

 

[kk87]

no you got it wrong he didn't request a trade.

he went to ownership and requested NOT TO BE TRADED and assured management again and that "I WANT TO BE AN ISLANDER. The were his own unsolicited words. As captain. Management had every right to believe the man who said he believed in Loyalty Leadership and Commitment.

As leaf fans you can keep making excuses for him but it doesn't make him any less of a liar

Yup, I get that - but there's no evidence whatsoever to suggest that his desire to be an Islander at that time was insincere or disingenuous in any way, no matter how much some people might want to believe that

 

[Gary Nylund]

you'll never see anyone mention this

11 mill for an open UFA elite - borderline franchise center is completely fair, not good but not bad

Nothing borderline about Tavares. Franchise centre all the way.

 

[AppsSyl]

Do you have anything to back this up besides one tweet from someone who's credibility seems to highly questionable?

You earlier said his fiancee was "actively pushing" for Tavares to leave, I asked you to provide a source which you have ignored. Do you understand that until you retract that comment or provide a source you have zero credibility yourself?

Attacking the man's fiancee is the lowest of lows. I'm glad to see not all NYI fans are willing to stoop that low but a little disappointed that so many are.

This beat writer Gross has only been an Isles beat writer since Feb 21st (a week before the trade deadline) and previously was a NJ writer. Seems hard to believe he would be privy to inside Isles knowledge prior to the trade deadline when he had been n the job about a week.

 

[Cor]

you'll never see anyone mention this

11 mill for an open UFA elite - borderline franchise center is completely fair, not good but not bad

I'd say 11 mill for John Tavares is pretty good. Especially considering San Jose were reportedly offering up to 13 Million, and the Islanders were offering more as well.

 

[NYI Fan 73]

wow a lot of talk ref Tavares. Hard to follow & read/associate each one. It might be helpful knowing who is an islander fan and who is not (when reading the comments), well at least for me it would. I've taken the JT issue seriously and therefore I'm not impressed by his actions. Actions some of you call personal life decisions in order to possibly help justify your acceptance of what JT actually did. Debate all you want, it was ok or was not ok; as it will never be proved one way or other but I have followed, backed, supported, paid much, sacrificed much and fought much, for "my" Islanders... and I think JT has shown the hockey world he is not a loyal teammate or team-player. In the hockey world he is no longer a trustworthy player and more selfish than any average player. it is what it is. Why do so many of you sugar coat all this?

 

[macleod50]

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/isles-may-have-good-news-on-john-tavares-as-well.2505921/

This is where he said Tavares was locked up? That's a reach.

 

[Dustin]

This is where he said Tavares was locked up? That's a reach.

Such a good read.

 

[4thline]

That's exactly how it feels, he basically used us to get what he wanted then f'd us over

Well what he wanted was to keep the door open to stay on the island as long as he could, because he liked it there and wasn't going to jump ship blindly. Terrible human being.

 

[macleod50]

Such a good read.

Oh absolutely.

 

[AppsSyl]

This is where he said Tavares was locked up? That's a reach.

That tweet followed (1st one below) was followed by a second one (2nd tweet below), which I believe initially didn't include the warning (in bold quoted below) at the end, until Dreger tweeted he is close to the situation and said absolutely nothing is close to being done in rebuttal to what was circulating as a result of the Gross tweets.

"To repeat, though, JT not a done deal and still a lot can change."

 

[Silver91]

Oh so you were in the room? Ownership said he asked not to be traded.team mates claim he lied or misled them including Dobson and Wahlstrom. c'mon yourself

Were you in the room? Also, what has been said by Dobson and Wahlstrom? That JT welcomed them to the organization he was still Captain of? If anything, that further proves that he hadn't decided he was leaving yet, as he wanted to reach out to the new players in the organization.

The smear campaign from a select group of Islanders fans is astonishing. Twisting quotes and stories to fit the "snake" narrative are just incredible.

If it had gone how so many Isles fans claim to wish, he would have been labeled a fraud and disloyal for wanting to be traded at the deadline. If he had said he wasn't sure if he wanted to be back, he would have been lambasted all year until a trade occurred.

I'm just going to keep posting this.

So one beat writer posting that Tavares supposedly made the request not to be traded? With absolutely zero quotes from anyone?

It's been mentioned several times that Snow asked JT if he wanted to be traded, and/or told him he wouldn't be. Tavares had no control over that, other than to provide 8 teams he wouldn't have gone to. If anyone thinks that JT actively prevented a trade, then actual proof might be nice.

 

[Mach85]

This is where he said Tavares was locked up? That's a reach.

It definitely doesn't say he's locked up, but as a member of the media who knows how to be precise with his words, Gross knew exactly what he was doing with what he was implying. He left himself a lot of wiggle room, and critical thinkers wouldn't have taken what he said there as gospel. But knowing what we do now in hindsight, that tweet is hard evidence that Gross either a) likes to talk out of his ass, b) has poor sources, or c) makes faulty assumptions and then tweets them out.

 

[Jordan Belfort]

Tried to delve down into per-minute stats for the guys that Tavares gets credit for boosting their scoring. This still is far from a perfect analysis, but it's better than the PPG stuff posted above.

Going to look only at Even Strength scoring here.

Parenteau

Age 27 NYI: 1.64p/60, 1.23p1/60
Age 28 NYI: 1.96p/60, 1.52p1/60
Age 29 COL: 2.13p/60, 1.74p1/60
Age 30 COL: 2.03p/60, 1.48p1/60

Don't think we can give any credit to Tavares for Parenteau, since he was more productive at even strength both years in Colorado than he was in his 2 years in NYI.

Okposo

Age 26 NYI: 2.03p/60, 1.57p1/60
Age 27 NYI: 1.86p/60, 1.45p1/60
Age 28 BUF: 1.28p/60, 1.09p1/60
Age 29 BUF: 1.28p/60, 0.97p1/60

well, there's very clear massive difference. Maybe Okposo just gave up on hockey after getting the big contract, but this looks like a pretty good example of a player's production falling off a cliff without Tavares.

Moulson

Age 28 NYI: 1.95p/60, 1.53p1/60
Age 29 NYI: 2.22p/60, 1.73p1/60
Age 30 MIX: 1.66p/60, 1.44p1/60 (half the season with BUF, quarter seasons with NYI and MIN)
Age 31 BUF: 1.58p/60, 1.20p1/60
Age 32 BUF: 0.98p/60, 0.75p1/60

Not as extreme as the Okposo example, but still a good example of Tavares likely boosting his production significantly.

other examples like Bailey and Lee we'll have a better idea of after this season, but right now we don't really have a point to compare on. I tried to look into the Vanek example, but i couldn't get a split of just his short time in NYI - and really, looking at his production with other teams that same year, I doubt it would show much Tavares boost - Vanek was really, really productive long before he played with Vanek.

But the Moulson and Okposo examples seem legit to me.

I don’t think it’s that significant. More than likely Okposo just kind of packed it in.

 

[Dustin]

Were you in the room? Also, what has been said by Dobson and Wahlstrom? That JT welcomed them to the organization he was still Captain of? If anything, that further proves that he hadn't decided he was leaving yet, as he wanted to reach out to the new players in the organization.

The smear campaign from a select group of Islanders fans is astonishing. Twisting quotes and stories to fit the "snake" narrative are just incredible.

If it had gone how so many Isles fans claim to wish, he would have been labeled a fraud and disloyal for wanting to be traded at the deadline. If he had said he wasn't sure if he wanted to be back, he would have been lambasted all year until a trade occurred.



So one beat writer posting that Tavares supposedly made the request not to be traded? With absolutely zero quotes from anyone?

It's been mentioned several times that Snow asked JT if he wanted to be traded, and/or told him he wouldn't be. Tavares had no control over that, other than to provide 8 teams he wouldn't have gone to. If anyone thinks that JT actively prevented a trade, then actual proof might be nice.

Nah. He just has sources that we have to accept without any verification.

 

[Gary Nylund]

It definitely doesn't say he's locked up, but as a member of the media who knows how to be precise with his words, Gross knew exactly what he was doing with what he was implying. He left himself a lot of wiggle room, and critical thinkers wouldn't have taken what he said there as gospel. But knowing what we do now in hindsight, that tweet is hard evidence that Gross either a) likes to talk out of his ass, b) has poor sources, or c) makes faulty assumptions and then tweets them out.

"makes faulty assumptions and then tweets them out" - this sounds correct.

I had a quick peek at the thread linked to earlier started by LOLTWS and found Gross re-tweeting a tweet by Brian Compton saying that he doesn't think Lou takes the NYI job without having a good idea JT is staying and that with Trotz in the fold it's all falling to place. Gross says he "secconds" what Brian is saying and suggests that people "connect the dots".

Not a lot of credibility here so macleod50, keep copy-pasting the same tweet all you like but I don't think you're convincing anyone.

 

[Notsince67]

That's exactly how it feels, he basically used us to get what he wanted then f'd us over

There is some evidence that Lamoriello was trying to strong arm JT.
First of all, he wouldn't leave cali after the Islander presentation. He also ruled out a sign and trade. He could have easily procured something but he chose to be a hard ass.

 

[macleod50]

It definitely doesn't say he's locked up, but as a member of the media who knows how to be precise with his words, Gross knew exactly what he was doing with what he was implying. He left himself a lot of wiggle room, and critical thinkers wouldn't have taken what he said there as gospel. But knowing what we do now in hindsight, that tweet is hard evidence that Gross either a) likes to talk out of his ass, b) has poor sources, or c) makes faulty assumptions and then tweets them out.

The "locked up" talk was from another poster.

I agree he worded it carefully. It would shock me if a journalist didn't word something like that with some gray area. I would put it to poor sources since the beat writer is a mouthpiece of the team/Snow. Source from the team says, "we're close on Tavares." This is the result of it.

 

[DanM]

Were you in the room? Also, what has been said by Dobson and Wahlstrom? That JT welcomed them to the organization he was still Captain of? If anything, that further proves that he hadn't decided he was leaving yet, as he wanted to reach out to the new players in the organization.

The smear campaign from a select group of Islanders fans is astonishing. Twisting quotes and stories to fit the "snake" narrative are just incredible.

If it had gone how so many Isles fans claim to wish, he would have been labeled a fraud and disloyal for wanting to be traded at the deadline. If he had said he wasn't sure if he wanted to be back, he would have been lambasted all year until a trade occurred.



So one beat writer posting that Tavares supposedly made the request not to be traded? With absolutely zero quotes from anyone?

It's been mentioned several times that Snow asked JT if he wanted to be traded, and/or told him he wouldn't be. Tavares had no control over that, other than to provide 8 teams he wouldn't have gone to. If anyone thinks that JT actively prevented a trade, then actual proof might be nice.

This is HFBoards, proof has no place on here lol only people who have emotional outbursts and temper tantrums.

Not much class when you see writers posting crap with zero source.

 

[macleod50]

"makes faulty assumptions and then tweets them out" - this sounds correct.

I had a quick peek at the thread linked to earlier started by LOLTWS and found Gross re-tweeting a tweet by Brian Compton saying that he doesn't think Lou takes the NYI job without having a good idea JT is staying and that with Trotz in the fold it's all falling to place. Gross says he "secconds" what Brian is saying and suggests that people "connect the dots".

Not a lot of credibility here so macleod50, keep copy-pasting the same tweet all you like but I don't think you're convincing anyone.

It wasn't to convince anybody.

Someone asked for evidence and I threw the tweet out there. You can take of it what it will. We were having some nice discourse, but hey start throwing out the emojis now.

 

[boredmale]

There is some evidence that Lamoriello was trying to strong arm JT.
First of all, he wouldn't leave cali after the Islander presentation. He also ruled out a sign and trade. He could have easily procured something but he chose to be a hard ass.

Still it would have been much easier being happy for him and wishing him all the best if he cut the cord with the team and moved on before the deadline(say like Vanek who I have 0 issues with because he was at least honest with the team) then we could say well sucks tavares left, I don't blame him thankfully we got a decent package of futures so hope something pans out there.

Instead you feel like he was playing us using the fans and the desperation of ownership as a Plan B