Confirmed Signing with Link: [TOR] F Auston Matthews signs extension with the Maple Leafs (4 years, $13.25M AAV)

[Zur En Arrh]

I dont think so, I would guess the cap the next 4 years goes roughly ~87M, ~90M, ~93M, ~96M... So then he's a UFA at $99-100M.


But either way whether it's $95M or $105M he's getting the bag in 4 years.


He might honestly be the first guy to get a $20M aav.

Na

There will be a ton of pressure from the NHLPA for Drai to hit the next new high... He won't take less value cause he is the next big superstar to set the new level

If he leave Edmonton I feel really bad for that team. He will Be playing the best defenseman and won't have mcd to sneak on his line/pp. Eeeek

View attachment 738949View attachment 738950View attachment 738951

Nice!!!

 

[Skolman]

No, the money isn't the issue. The issue for mcd is he's surrounded by dog shit. Aside from the guy he turned into a hart Winner it's pretty thin...

Matthews contract is fine from a cap percentage point of view. Mcd is stuck in the mud hauling an 18 wheeler of dogshit up a frozen hill... Its admirable but useless. He's gotta get out of there like yesterday

You literally make zero sense.

If McDavid resigns in Edmonton, it means he doesn't care about winning a cup?

Matthews resigned in Toronto, which means?

Leafs have won 1 playoff series since he's been there, and it's well advertised the last time the Leafs won the cup.

Your hypocrisy is really showing

 

[Zur En Arrh]

8 years would lower the cap hit. He actually signed basically the same cap% as Mackinnon. And Matthews is a better player than MacKinnon or at the very least they are the same level.

Not sure how people can try and pretend Matthews isn't there. Well I do know why, a combo of not watching the player and Leaf hate. Matthews had a meh season with his 40 goals last year, apparently that is all it takes to wipe out 3 seasons of 60+ goal paces and being the highest g/pg player since he entered the league while having size and being a good two way center

Forty goals with 1 wrist...yeah... He's better...

 

[Zur En Arrh]

Top 5? Yikes

Top 2.

 

[TS Quint]

Nope! We have him for five more years, the most productive of his career. I'm also very happy that hf is having a hard time coping. Everyone said he was leaving, in fact they all said he was bad out one side of the mouth and also said, prayed he was leaving out the other side...

bwahahah *dx chops hf*

I always said he was going to sign with the Leafs. They were going to give him the most money on the shortest term and he doesn’t have to hold any of the responsibility that should bring to his team or his fans. As long as he brings the entertainment of scoring a hat trick in February against the Coyotes everyone is happy. It’s wins all around. Never let anyone else tell you how to enjoy hockey. Playoffs and Cups aren’t everything.

 

[Zur En Arrh]

Imagine not being able to lock down your franchise player for more than 4 years.

Bahahahaha.

Imagine having one..

Dx chop!

 

[Zur En Arrh]

Lmao no they won't he's 25...4 years takes him right to his prime for a huge payday.

Nah bro, he's in his prime now. We will have his ENTIRE prime....haha

 

[LilySmoov]

Ya, that's obvious and thus you missed the point. Cheers.

You responded to a post saying AM's averaging 51 goals per 82 games over his career with the phrase "Yep the old pace argument". Playoffs - which you repeatedly bring up when I ask you if you understand the basic concept of gpg over a significant sample size - were not mentioned by either party in that exchange. Not sure why you post on a message board when you can't even keep up with your own posts but to each their own.

 

[ACC1224]

You'll be a ghost the week he resigns in Edmonton, as will a lot of Leafs fans on here.

Don't worry, we'll keep receipts

Are they kept in the 'Matthews is walking the first chance he gets' drawer?

 

[HoweHullOrr]

You responded to a post saying AM's averaging 51 goals per 82 games over his career with the phrase "Yep the old pace argument". Playoffs - which you repeatedly bring up when I ask you if you understand the basic concept of gpg over a significant sample size - were not mentioned by either party in that exchange. Not sure why you post on a message board when you can't even keep up with your own posts but to each their own.

PLAYOFFS. If you want to talk about AM's PLAYOFF pace, point percentage per PLAYOFF game, etc., then go ahead. That's what I've been focused on throughout this entire thread. The link in #1838 should help you get you started.

 

[Skolman]

Are they kept in the 'Matthews is walking the first chance he gets' drawer?

Not sure why you're quoting me.

I never stated Matthews is leaving

 

[LilySmoov]

PLAYOFFS. If you want to talk about AM's PLAYOFF pace, point percentage per PLAYOFF game, etc., then go ahead. That's what I've been focused on throughout this entire thread.

Well it clearly isn't because the post I originally responded to didn't mention playoffs, the post you quoted didn't mention playoffs, and the post he quoted didn't mention playoffs either. They were all about his regular season scoring rate. Once you've learned what sample sizes are, maybe you should brush up on some basic communication skills.

Edit: And I already readily acknowledged Matthews has underperformed in the playoffs. You legitimately don't know how conversations work do you?

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Are they kept in the 'Matthews is walking the first chance he gets' drawer?

I like how this guy gets upset for suggesting Matthews leaving, but then believes McDavid is leaving to Toronto.

The lack of awareness of Leafs fans like this one lol

 

[mkatcherin00]

The most entertaining part of all this, to me, will be Toronto management turning around and trying to tell Nylander that he's not worth ~$9M.

I believe Nylander is the only player of the core 4 who's playoff ppg goes up the other three go down.

 

[leafs in five]

There are two generational players currently playing in the league and Matthews is not even close to being one of them but he is getting paid like it.

maybe in the next CBA there can be a generational player allowance like how the NBA has it with bird rights etc. and there can be a panel to determine whether a player is generational or just an poll on HF national hockey league talk.

 

[Skolman]

The real question here is what McDavid‘s AAV and term will be when he comes home to a Toronto in a few seasons.


McDavid is coming home to Toronto when he is a UFA. Book it.

I'll play, based on what?

 

[Magic Man]

5 more years in the playoffs guaranteed or 4 years in the playoffs + a trade haul is better than starting the party now and ending the contending window.

A lot can happen in 5 years. McDavid could be a Leaf by the time Matthews is ready to expire. Will Matthews want to leave in 5 years if they still have that great a chance to win?

 

[34]

5 more years in the playoffs guaranteed or 4 years in the playoffs + a trade haul is better than starting the party now and ending the contending window.

A lot can happen in 5 years. McDavid could be a Leaf by the time Matthews is ready to expire. Will Matthews want to leave in 5 years if they still have that great a chance to win?

You better believe it.

I'll play, based on what?

Born in Toronto, raised in Toronto, family is still there, grew up a Leafs fan…
Toronto is the hockey Mecca, biggest in the world. That is just to name a few.

 

[Nothingbutglass]

You better believe it.


Born in Toronto, raised in Toronto, family is still there, grew up a Leafs fan…
Toronto is the hockey Mecca, biggest in the world. That is just to name a few.

Nah. 0.0% chance he joins the Leafs circus. If he leaves, it will be on to bigger and better things. Likely NE corridor team in US so he can be on prime time in the east.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Respectfully - there's so much misinformation in this post, I'm not even sure where to begin. But let's try to clear up some of the misconceptions:

You can’t just declare arizona as your primary residence.

Well, yeah - obviously. Who said it's just a matter of "declaring" Arizona as Matthews' residence? There are specific steps that Matthews needs to undertake in order to structure his affairs. If he does it, the benefit is saving (ballpark) a million dollars per year.

Here's a good article that goes into some of the considerations that are relevant.

I also specifically address the question "why doesn't every NHL player do this?" in this post. (The short answer is - a lot of facts need to align for this strategy to be beneficial).

Have to lock your money up in an rca which just DEFERS your taxes until you take it out (still pay) and have to move to a tax friendly place and take it out in drips.

Say he has it in an rca and bieber wants him to invest in some company. He will get taxed Canadian money when he takes it out. He doesn’t just not pay taxes. He defers his taxes temporarily and has a lower standard of living in limited environments to try to save taxes at a later date

Just so that everyone can follow, you're now talking about an unrelated topic - the RCA.

Deferral is one of the most basic forms of tax planning. Would you rather pay $5M in income tax today, or pay $4M, and invest the additional $1M and let it compound over years (or even decades)? It's not a trick question. Tax advisors have a professional responsibility to their clients to make them aware of ways they can defer tax.

Saying that an RCA "just" provides deferral is like telling a doctor not to treat someone's cancer because it "just" defers their death by another decade.

For the record, we have no idea if Matthews has an RCA or not. Also, we don't actually know if Matthews has taken the position, in his tax filings, that he's a non-resident of Canada. All we can do is speculate, and note that he's structured his past two contracts in exactly the way that would facilitate that strategy).

Look at Bautista. He has been gone for what 8 years? The government is going after him NOW for their money. For playing for the blue jays in like 2015

Again, you're confusing yourself because you're mixing up different, unrelated tax planning strategies.

The main tax planning tool would be for Matthews to structure his affairs in order to be a resident of Arizona (for tax purposes). There's an enormous amount of case law about determining an individual's residency. In contrast, CRA is going after Bautista for whether his RCA contributions are "reasonable". That's a vague concept which hasn't (yet) been refined through dozens of court cases. You're conflating two separate topics here - and the one which is most relevant to Matthews has been well defined by case law for several decades now.

People can write fancy articles all they want. Just like nutritionists can claim they can have a diet that out performs steroids.

“Natural bodybuilding works with my system”.
It’s just not reality.

I think this is your attempt to discredit subject matter experts because you either don't like, or don't understand, how tax planning works.

Look, tax planning can be a very complex area. This website is about hockey, not finance, and I don't fault anybody for not knowing about how this works. But you should ask questions here, rather than making declarations about a topic that (respectfully) you clearly don't understand.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

It could be as simple as his agent using that tax narrative for leverage when it's not there. We as fans can't pretend to be accountants... unless you do this for a living? I don't, I'm in engineering.

I think Matthews' agent took Dubas for a ride when his previous contract was signed in 2019.
Forget about the dollar value and term - everything about how the contract was negotiated favours Matthews.

From a tax standpoint, it allowed him to structure his affairs in such a way that he'll save millions of dollars in income tax over the course of his career (by potentially enabling him to pay tax on the majority of his income at Arizona rates, which is more than 10% lower than Ontario's top rate).

From a finance standpoint, the contract was frontloaded. Matthews collected 53% of his earnings in the first 13 months of a five year contract. That's stunning. It means Matthews received and could start investing his earnings sooner. Over the course of his career, the impact on his net worth would be substantial.

From a leverage standpoint, Matthews was given a NMC (granted, only for the final year). This is the least of the concerns.

I don't fault Matthews for this. In fact, I've commended him for getting good advice. But you'd think that by offering these huge advantages to Matthews, Dubas would have been able to negotiate a lower AAV.

If I were in Dubas's place, negotiating with Matthews, I would have said something like - "Auston, we think you're one of the best players in the league, and we want you in Toronto long-term. I've spoke to the Board, and we're going to front load your contact, so you'll be getting more than half your money in just over one-fifth of the term. And we'll play ball with you, so that your advisors can put an extra million dollars in your pocket annually, by ensuring you're an Arizona resident for tax purposes. Plus, we'll give you the NMC that you requested. And we'll agree to only a five year term, even though we would have wanted longer.

But we're not willing to make you the 3rd highest player in the league next year. First, I'm already offering you these two substantial advantages that will save you millions of dollars. That has to be taken into account when we determine your salary. Second, you're asking for more money than Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Kane, MacKinnion, Kucherov, etc - but you've never placed in the 20 (let alone the top 10) in scoring. We can't pay for potential, we need results. Third, you're averaging 44 points per 82 games in the playoff. Granted, small sample size, but this city hasn't won a playoff series in almost two decades, and we need to see results in the spring. Fourth, you're an RFA, so you don't have a ton of leverage here if I don't play ball with this."

Instead, Dubas gave Matthews a huge salary, structured the contract in a way that adds millions of dollars of value on top of that, and ignored the leverage he had given Matthews' RFA status. In turn, this raised the salary expectations for Marner and Nylander. Having so much money tied up in three or four forwards (Tavares) hasn't proven to be a winning strategy (for any team) during the salary cap era. I think the Tavares contract was the first step, but Matthews' 2019 contract, in many ways, was even worse. (Matthews' new contract suffers from many of these flaws from the Leafs' perspective - but it would be hard for a new GM to try to negotiate back from what Dubas already agreed to, especially since they no longer have leverage given his impending UFA status).

 

[MTL Dirty Birdy]

Haha yeah. Except I will consistently put them in the corner and take the biggest payday. The leafs will never win a cup tying up so much money on him and others

 

[Legion34]

Respectfully - there's so much misinformation in this post, I'm not even sure where to begin. But let's try to clear up some of the misconceptions:

Well, yeah - obviously. Who said it's just a matter of "declaring" Arizona as Matthews' residence? There are specific steps that Matthews needs to undertake in order to structure his affairs. If he does it, the benefit is saving (ballpark) a million dollars per year.

Here's a good article that goes into some of the considerations that are relevant.

I also specifically address the question "why doesn't every NHL player do this?" in this post. (The short answer is - a lot of facts need to align for this strategy to be beneficial).


Just so that everyone can follow, you're now talking about an unrelated topic - the RCA.

Deferral is one of the most basic forms of tax planning. Would you rather pay $5M in income tax today, or pay $4M, and invest the additional $1M and let it compound over years (or even decades)? It's not a trick question. Tax advisors have a professional responsibility to their clients to make them aware of ways they can defer tax.

Saying that an RCA "just" provides deferral is like telling a doctor not to treat someone's cancer because it "just" defers their death by another decade.

For the record, we have no idea if Matthews has an RCA or not. Also, we don't actually know if Matthews has taken the position, in his tax filings, that he's a non-resident of Canada. All we can do is speculate, and note that he's structured his past two contracts in exactly the way that would facilitate that strategy).


Again, you're confusing yourself because you're mixing up different, unrelated tax planning strategies.

The main tax planning tool would be for Matthews to structure his affairs in order to be a resident of Arizona (for tax purposes). There's an enormous amount of case law about determining an individual's residency. In contrast, CRA is going after Bautista for whether his RCA contributions are "reasonable". That's a vague concept which hasn't (yet) been refined through dozens of court cases. You're conflating two separate topics here - and the one which is most relevant to Matthews has been well defined by case law for several decades now.


I think this is your attempt to discredit subject matter experts because you either don't like, or don't understand, how tax planning works.

Look, tax planning can be a very complex area. This website is about hockey, not finance, and I don't fault anybody for not knowing about how this works. But you should ask questions here, rather than making declarations about a topic that (respectfully) you clearly don't understand.

I am stating what nhl agents players accountants and GMs have said. This topic gets covered probably monthly during the season

There are actual accountants for NHL players who have went through the residency thing. They have showed how much a player can do on the same contract

Canadian playing in Canada
American playing in Canada
euro as well

The actual NHL accountant with players in Canada said it basically works for a year for most and they don’t follow up. I am very clear on how residency works.



It is well documented. The residency and RCAs are commonly suggested as the strategy.

I am not conflating the two. I am combining them as this is what has been recommended by some in articles and Allan Walsh (whose own accountant disagreed on his podcast). More importantly. I believe that this was part of the article that specifically discussed Tavares. I have read so many I could be wrong. But I am pretty sure that one addresses residence plus rca

Tax deferral is not the same as not being taxed cash in hand

 

[bert]

Glad he’s signed. Those wanting more years is fair, but shorter terms generally favor the team. If he keeps getting paid, its bc hes worth it.

Not for elite players when the cap goes up. This narrative is not true but now that is suits the leafs we see it all over the site. Why can't leaf fans come to terms with reality? Every thread its constant denial. They convinced Murray to go on the LTIR instead of having to buy him out.... Very obvious that's a good thing for the leafs. Matthews is overpaid on the shortest term compared to players like Mackinnon and Pasternak. It's flat out factual. But on the other hand they have retained their top 10 player so that's good. These are the realities that most of the fan base argues that simply make no sense.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Not for elite players when the cap goes up. This narrative is not true but now that is suits the leafs we see it all over the site. Why can't leaf fans come to terms with reality? Every thread its constant denial. They convinced Murray to go on the LTIR instead of having to buy him out.... Very obvious that's a good thing for the leafs. Matthews is overpaid on the shortest term compared to players like Mackinnon and Pasternak. It's flat out factual. But on the other hand they have retained their top 10 player so that's good. These are the realities that most of the fan base argues that simply make no sense.

Murray is injured. That is why he is on LTIR. Matthews sighed for 4 more tears. Those are facts. Why can't you accept this reality?