Confirmed with Link: [TOR/COL] Nazem Kadri, Calle Rosen for Tyson Barrie (50% retain), Alex Kerfoot trade (continued)

[HoweHullOrr]

Let muzzin go will get slower the older he gets. and resign Barrie because Rd are harder to get .. then we have sandin / lil to fill

Ya I would be shocked if the leafs paid Ceci 4.5 million to play bottom pairing minutes.

Ya, guess that would be the plan. Still, Muzzin is a pretty good defenseman and not easily replaced. Sandin/Lil are our future on the blueline though. No doubt of that.

 

[deletethis]

Since when has it been determined that Dermott can successfully play on the right side in the top 4?

 

[Lethalsniper007]

Gardiner is waiting on the Leafs, per reports.

And also am I back at elementary school? Ermahgerd the username! I was surrounded by idiots now same as then.

No cap remaining unless we make some trades

 

[nuck]

I think we will see Spezza at center regardless

Perhaps, but he had only 8g the last two seasons so the other younger top 9 options are not likely to give up a lot of minutes if they are healthy. Kerfoot produced a lot more goals in only a little more TOI so I would think he is #3 guy on paper unless he finds Babcock's doghouse.

 

[gcjag]

Interesting. Mirtle said there was a proposed deal for TJ Brodie that Kadri would not waive his no-trade clause for. Both him and Barrie are UFAs next year...

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Sorry, I read your post quickly did not catch that
I really disagree with the balanced lines approach, though.

....and that's perfectly fair and reasonable. I'm just saying "know your coach" in assuming Nylander's salary has anything to do with where he will play.

 

[Mess]

Fun Fact:

The last time the Leafs had a RHD that put up more points than Tyson Barrie 14 goal 59 points last season, was Larry Murphy in 1995-96 when he recorded 12 goals and 61 points.

High scoring right hand shooting dmen is not something that happens very often in Toronto, as one has to go back over 20 years to find one that has produced at Tyson Barrie level.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Playing Nylander with Matthews or playing with Kerfoot... which one give Nylander a better chance to rack up the points? There is rolling lines with similar ATOI and then there is rolling lines with elite centers as your linemate

Is anybody arguing this?

Again, I lliterally said this might not maximize your output but knowing what your coach has done three years running, don't be shocked if salary has no bearing on his approach.

 

[Apotheosis]

The more I look at this, the more I like this.

Rielly - Barrie

Dermott - Muzzin (or whoever plays the RD) -> This is god damn solid and probably the best top 4 D we have ever had in the last 20 years.

Then use Kerfoot as a defensive C, Spezza in a sheltered role, and roll Matthews-Nylander and Tavares-Marner 20+ minutes a night.

 

[Cotton]

No, he isn't.

Usage is the differentiator.

Gardiner is astronomically better defensively. (Consistently the best on this team too, btw)

And I'm sure you believe that.

 

[Bluelines]

No, he isn't.

Usage is the differentiator.

Gardiner is astronomically better defensively. (Consistently the best on this team too, btw)

Surprised GM's are not rushing to throw the bank at the consistently best defender on a 100 point team (7th best OA), you'd think a d-man that is "consistently the best" would have signed by now. #freejake

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Since when has it been determined that Dermott can successfully play on the right side in the top 4?

The same thought was going through my mind. The idea that Ceci is pushed down to the 3rd line and/or traded (before the season begins) is something I'd wonder about.

 

[nuck]

I literally just said it might not maximize his potential but this is how our coach likes to roll lines. Not sure what you disagree with (as you seemed to repeat what I said)?

Unless you are referring to the "zero fifference", which was referencing what he makes.

Kadri was a little over 16:00 TOI the last two seasons where the top two were over 18:30 last year. The new center Kerfoot played under 15:00 and Spezza around 13:00 in their last roles so I am assuming that spot drops under 15:00 for the year. Kerfoot is no Kadri offensively and Spezza is coming off back to back 8 goal seasons.

 

[Bluelines]

Is anybody arguing this?

Again, I lliterally said this might not maximize your output but knowing what your coach has done three years running, don't be shocked if salary has no bearing on his approach.

It wont maximize his output, if know executives, and I do, they have value metrics for each player. Why would I pay a guy almost $7 mil to score 50 points when I can pay another guy $3.4 mil to score the same?

Not to mention Nylander is already looking at his next contract and he wants to be put in the best possible situation to score as many goals as possible, thinking his agent and daddy might be pretty vocal about Nylander playing with 2 scrubs vs Nylander plaything with elite linemates, don't forget Nylanders agent represents other players, treat my client bad and I'm going to suggest that my other clients don't consider Toronto.

If Babcock puts Nylander on the third line it would be utterly stupid.

 

[deletethis]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Nylander and Kerfoot on the same line (3rd line) with one taking the draws on one side of the ice and the other on the other side. And it won't be entirely clear which one is the 3rd line center as it will switch up during the game and maybe during the play.

 

[deletethis]

No cap remaining unless we make some trades

I guess that's why he's waiting (if true).

 

[Bluelines]

The more I look at this, the more I like this.

Rielly - Barrie

Dermott - Muzzin (or whoever plays the RD) -> This is god damn solid and probably the best top 4 D we have ever had in the last 20 years.

Then use Kerfoot as a defensive C, Spezza in a sheltered role, and roll Matthews-Nylander and Tavares-Marner 20+ minutes a night.

Rielly and Barrie are virtually the same player, which one of them stays back and protects the house while the other one wheels?

 

[Sypher04]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Nylander and Kerfoot on the same line (3rd line) with one taking the draws on one side of the ice and the other on the other side. And it won't be entirely clear which one is the 3rd line center as it will switch up during the game and maybe during the play.

If Nylander is not playing with Matthews the pitchforks should come out for Babs.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Kadri was a little over 16:00 TOI the last two seasons where the top two were over 18:30 last year. The new center Kerfoot played under 15:00 and Spezza around 13:00 in their last roles so I am assuming that spot drops under 15:00 for the year. Kerfoot is no Kadri offensively and Spezza is coming off back to back 8 goal seasons.

Not arguing it shouldn't. Just requires Babs to take more of a top two / bottom two approach.

 

[MyBudJT]

Maybe. Dermott comes back, Ceci down to the bottom pairing, and then traded by the deadline.


But I'm not convinced he's traded at some point this summer for a cheaper RHD, or even traded for a pick, and Girardi is signed for around 1M instead.

Honestly, I want to give Ceci a chance.

All some players need is a change of scenery and a second chance elsewhere. Lots of stories of defencmen on poor teams excelling elsewhere. Petry is a classic example of that.

Edit: So I'd wait until the TDL. If Ceci turned a corner, you keep him. If he hasn't so much, you look to flip him.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

It wont maximize his output, if know executives, and I do, they have value metrics for each player. Why would I pay a guy almost $7 mil to score 50 points when I can pay another guy $3.4 mil to score the same?

Not to mention Nylander is already looking at his next contract and he wants to be put in the best possible situation to score as many goals as possible, thinking his agent and daddy might be pretty vocal about Nylander playing with 2 scrubs vs Nylander plaything with elite linemates, don't forget Nylanders agent represents other players, treat my client bad and I'm going to suggest that my other clients don't consider Toronto.

If Babcock puts Nylander on the third line it would be utterly stupid.

You would do it for the same reason I presume Babcock has all long...to make the team much more difficult to match up against. Executives might not care about personal metrics as much as team ones.

Not saying it is right or wrong but not really sure how you can ignore it after living through 3 years of it?

 

[Cor]

If Gardiner is "waiting on the Leafs per reports" (lol) then he ain't very bright. The only way the Leafs can afford him now is if they trade Nylander. All other options have been exhausted.

Oh. One more thing. Try as you might, you can't make the condescending snark shtick work. So stop.

Well, not really.

If Toronto flipped Ceci for a draft pick, and we sign a 3 year deal worth around 8M, we could technically bring Gardiner back for 4.5M.

It's extremely farfetched, and I do agree that it's probably not happening, but there could be a scenario where Gardiner could come back, for a discounted price.

 

[nuck]

Why does a 4C have to play PK? Either way he's good on the draws and will go to the bench if he wins the draw and gets an icing.

In the Leafs scheme of 8:00 a night for the #4, there is no offensive opportunity and they were second in the league on faceoffs so no desperate need to make a change. I can see him doing a few D zone draws but I think he was acquired for the O zone opportunities and more to support Kerfoot who split his face off duties last season with Compher.

 

[Nylander88]

Rielly and Barrie are virtually the same player, which one of them stays back and protects the house while the other one wheels?

I've thought about this too. If a Muzzin-Barrie and Rielly-Ceci pairing would be the better approach stylistically. Then again i feel the issue with Ceci is he's been asked to play a shutdown role with typically little help or an offensive partner. Which is why I thought Muzzin-Ceci would make a good big body shutdown pair. People compare Zaitsev and Ceci, and Zaitsev looked far better when he finally got beside Muzzin as the go to shutdown pair against Boston's top line. So maybe the same would happen for Ceci. And maybe we're overthinking Rielly-Barrie as a pairing. They both have high hockey IQ and I'm sure could figure it out. Guess we'll find out in October! Either way I'm much happier with the top 4 today than I was yesterday morning

 

[Gatorbait19]

Let muzzin go will get slower the older he gets. and resign Barrie because Rd are harder to get .. then we have sandin / lil to fill

I think you’d be better off re-signing Muzzin instead of Barrie (at least depending upon what Muzzin is looking for).

Barrie will be 29 when his new deal kicks in and wants at least $8m/yr. He’s a defensive liability that never plays PK or has any defensive zone starts. He’s not the kinda dman that will improve with age as his game is heavily predicated upon his speed (and some Avs fans think his speed has already started to decline). There’s a decent chance that his contract becomes a huge anchor in 2-3 years once he really starts to decline.