Proposal: Tor - ana - wpg

[Hally BlackWood]

What are you talking about?

WPG
In: Fowler, Dermott, TOR 2nd 2017, Holland
OUT: Trouba, Pavelec

You're only getting 1 forward back in Holland. I altered the original trade proposal to take into account the LHD need. Fowler is a top 2-3D but plays the left side which helps balance your pairings.

Dermott is a great top 4D prospect, a low 2nd, and a top 9 forward in Holland.

Shedding the Pavelec contract is the cherry on the cake in this deal.

Winnipeg gets too much value here. The difference between Trouba and cam Fowler isn't Dermott, 2nd , Holland. Then Toronto has to Swallow Pavelec contracts. People can say oh were not paying to dump Pavelec, Well thats the thing no one wants him for free so ya its a cap dump. Toronto doesn't need him they can sign enroth for nothing.

 

[Omac13]

To Winnipeg:
Cam Fowler
Kasperi Kapanen

To Toronto:
Jacob Trouba

To Anaheim:
James Van Riemsdyk

Winnipeg Fans have Troubas value up there with McDavid so they will never agree to anything but a huge overpayment. Maybe they are just preparing themselves for a 7-7.5 mill per year contract for a player who has never been a Allstar, Career high 29 points in a season and has only played 4 playoff games in his Career. Sounds crazy I know, they are hoping for a contract similar to Morgan Rielly but its not happening if he was going for a deal like that he would have it already.

Trouba is playing hard ball with them, he is demanding money he's not worth, Jets fans are demanding packages of trades he is not worth. You cant sit there and tell me that Trouba should get more than Nathan Mackinnon. In Terms of Value this trade is fair for all parties , Not saying it fits Winnipegs needs but the Value is Fair

 

[Hally BlackWood]

It was a general comment. Perhaps shouldn't have quoted that proposal, though I can't understand why anyone would think that a forward like Holland has any value for the Jets.

ok, I really think he was just added to move a contract. Hes a fourth line guy in my eyes and people are just trying to move him to create room for the youth. cheap depth guy at best, leafs might as well just cut him. I bet Winnipeg would just demote him.

 

[Whileee]

Winnipeg gets too much value here. The difference between Trouba and cam Fowler isn't Dermott, 2nd , Holland. Then Toronto has to Swallow Pavelec contracts. People can say oh were not paying to dump Pavelec, Well thats the thing no one wants him for free so ya its a cap dump. Toronto doesn't need him they can sign enroth for nothing.

Winnipeg needs to keep the quality, not quantity. They have enough depth that they are not going to give up the best player in a deal, especially if the best player is 22 years old and has high potential.

"Value" is really dependent on a team's needs.

If the Jets were really concerned about Pavs' contract, they could have bought him out. His cap hit is only $3.9 million and he expires after this season. They really don't have any concerns about the cap.

 

[Huffer]

Zero sense? Give your head a shake boy.

1 top 2-3 LHD (a need)
A top LHD prospect (a need)
a 30-35th 2nd round pick
Holland (worth a 3rd-5th depending on who you ask)

Trouba leaves, and yes he's a damned good player.

Pavelec (cap dump) departs too and let's the Jets roll with Helleybuck and Hutchinson.

Not sure why you would resort to name calling, but it's clear you don't have a clue of what's good for the Jets.

 

[Liferleafer]

Way too much for Trouba

Hard pass from Toronto

I kind of feel this way as well. I like Trouba, but i am trying to figure out why his value is so high (overall in other threads...not particularly this thread). I feel Rielly is a higher valued player (even more so with his new contract)...and if Leaf fans valued him the same, we'd be roasted.

EDIT: I do however understand the desire to not move Trouba, young D with upside are a very hot commodity.

 

[Hally BlackWood]

Winnipeg needs to keep the quality, not quantity. They have enough depth that they are not going to give up the best player in a deal, especially if the best player is 22 years old and has high potential.

"Value" is really dependent on a team's needs.

If the Jets were really concerned about Pavs' contract, they could have bought him out. His cap hit is only $3.9 million and he expires after this season. They really don't have any concerns about the cap.

Ok that's fair enough I can understand that logic of We have the quantity but we need the Quality.

 

[Whileee]

Winnipeg Fans have Troubas value up there with McDavid so they will never agree to anything but a huge overpayment. Maybe they are just preparing themselves for a 7-7.5 mill per year contract for a player who has never been a Allstar, Career high 29 points in a season and has only played 4 playoff games in his Career. Sounds crazy I know, they are hoping for a contract similar to Morgan Rielly but its not happening if he was going for a deal like that he would have it already.

Trouba is playing hard ball with them, he is demanding money he's not worth, Jets fans are demanding packages of trades he is not worth. You cant sit there and tell me that Trouba should get more than Nathan Mackinnon. In Terms of Value this trade is fair for all parties , Not saying it fits Winnipegs needs but the Value is Fair

It doesn't fit the Jets' needs at all. Fowler is a lesser LD than Trouba (Trouba will play LD with Buff this season - he excelled at that in the latter part of last season). Kapanen would fight for a bottom-6 spot with a bunch of young wingers with better pedigrees than him.

Saying that rejecting Fowler and Kapanen is valuing Trouba "up there with McDavid" is just silly and inflammatory. That's actually a pretty mediocre package, all things considered.

Trouba is not the only RFA unsigned. I don't see people clamouring to say that Ristolainen, Lindholm, Monahan, Gaudreau, Ceci, Rakell, Dumba, Girgensons, Strome, Kucherov, etc. are going to create problems. The Jets and Trouba's camp have both said they are interested in a long-term deal. Maybe we should stop with all of these Trouba trade proposals and start making them for other RFAs who aren't signed.

 

[Whileee]

I kind of feel this way as well. I like Trouba, but i am trying to figure out why his value is so high. I feel Rielly is a higher valued player (even more so with his new contract)...and if Leaf fans valued him the same, we'd be roasted.
EDIT: I do however understand the desire to not move Trouba, young D with upside are a very hot commodity.

How about Rielly for Fowler and Rakell?

Fowler becomes your #2-3 at only $4M per year, and Rakell is a very good young RFA forward (better than Kapanen).

That would be about the equivalent of Trouba for Fowler and Kapanen.

 

[tony d]

JVR to Anaheim for Fowler is the deal that should be made, no need to drag Winnipeg into this.

 

[Whileee]

Zero sense? Give your head a shake boy.

1 top 2-3 LHD (a need)
A top LHD prospect (a need)
a 30-35th 2nd round pick
Holland (worth a 3rd-5th depending on who you ask)

Trouba leaves, and yes he's a damned good player.

Pavelec (cap dump) departs too and let's the Jets roll with Helleybuck and Hutchinson.

He's not really an impending UFA though, you have 2 years of contractual time with him. I am actually starting to think you could sign Fowler to an extension for cheaper then a long term deal with Trouba the longer the contract isn't signed.

Additional assets that come your way in this deal (that I think are being understated by Jet's fans) really make it a slam dunk along with losing Pavelec. If seeing Holland come your way is so bad, simply move him and maybe an additional asset to help land a better bottom pairing defenseman or a pick.

My 2 cents, but either way, I've had my fun in this thread.

The conclusion I've drawn from this is that Jets fans are overvaluing Trouba greatly, but sometimes you simply don't want to move a guy off your roster.

The simple conclusion is that the Jets are in a position where they won't want to give up quality for quantity. They have no need to move salary at this point, and they definitely don't need forwards or uncertain futures.

 

[Whileee]

JVR to Anaheim for Fowler is the deal that should be made, no need to drag Winnipeg into this.

Agreed.

 

[crosscheck2]

JVR to Anaheim for Fowler is the deal that should be made, no need to drag Winnipeg into this.

JVR soft player in a garbage team. It would be a disaster in the West. Ducks pass.

 

[Liferleafer]

JVR to Anaheim for Fowler is the deal that should be made, no need to drag Winnipeg into this.

As i posted in another thread, only if Fowler can play both sides well. I'd also prefer Vatenen over Fowler if JVR is moving straight up.

 

[Liferleafer]

JVR soft player in a garbage team. It would be a disaster in the West. Ducks pass.

Also known as "I've NEVER watched JVR play a single minute of ice hockey".

 

[Hally BlackWood]

JVR to Anaheim for Fowler is the deal that should be made, no need to drag Winnipeg into this.

That would be a more likely scenario.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

JVR to Anaheim for Fowler is the deal that should be made, no need to drag Winnipeg into this.

I wish Fowler was RH.
Rielly-____
Gardiner-___

We could really use some help on the right side. Zeitsev may get some top4 mins, but he is still in transition. A RH dman that can log big mins and is sound defensively, is what we need; think Fowler is more O-minded.

 

[Whileee]

I wish Fowler was RH.
Rielly-____
Gardiner-___

We could really use some help on the right side. Zeitsev may get some top4 mins, but he is still in transition. A RH dman that can log big mins and is sound defensively, is what we need; think Fowler is more O-minded.

(Jets fans whistle softly and walk quietly in the other direction).

 

[Liferleafer]

(Jets fans whistle softly and walk quietly in the other direction).

Jets aren't moving Trouba unless his demands remain stupid....they will sign him to a Rielly type contract, and all of this lunacy will go away.

 

[Jetsfan87]

The simple conclusion is that the Jets are in a position where they won't want to give up quality for quantity. They have no need to move salary at this point, and they definitely don't need forwards or uncertain futures.

This. If we trade Trouba its for a similar defensemen in terms of age/development/upside or for a decent(preferably top plus a high upside LHD prospect or for 2 good prospects (long shot as JEts need someone who can play this year)

That being said if the Jets could get a guy like Werenski from Columbus or Provorov/Sanheim from Philly thats a good start (deal would need to be tweaked but Im sure the Jets would be listening)

 

[Whileee]

Jets aren't moving Trouba unless his demands remain stupid....they will sign him to a Rielly type contract, and all of this lunacy will go away.

In truth, I don't think anyone really knows what the contract demands are. The one article that suggested outrageous demands looks pretty off-base in retrospect (Buff signed for 40% less than the article suggested he was asking).

Trouba has a hard-case agent, so it won't be easy. But there are lots of unsigned RFAs so I don't know why everyone seems so focused on Trouba. Scheifele was signed just last week, and two more Jets RFAs were signed today. It's still pretty early in the process.

By the way, with very reasonable deals with Lowry and Armia signed today the Jets have plenty of cap space and only Trouba left to sign.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

In truth, I don't think anyone really knows what the contract demands are. The one article that suggested outrageous demands looks pretty off-base in retrospect (Buff signed for 40% less than the article suggested he was asking).

Trouba has a hard-case agent, so it won't be easy. But there are lots of unsigned RFAs so I don't know why everyone seems so focused on Trouba. Scheifele was signed just last week, and two more Jets RFAs were signed today. It's still pretty early in the process.

By the way, with very reasonable deals with Lowry and Armia signed today the Jets have plenty of cap space and only Trouba left to sign.

Which can be good or bad.


---
If his demands are outrageous, you have to think that would play into any team moving significant value. Moving for a unsigned, high demand player AND paying premium - talk about a double tap.

 

[Whileee]

Which can be good or bad.


---
If his demands are outrageous, you have to think that would play into any team moving significant value. Moving for a unsigned, high demand player AND paying premium - talk about a double tap.

I don't think there's any credible evidence that Trouba's value will be affected by his RFA status. Lindholm, Ristolainen, Gaudreau, Monahan and Ceci are all still unsigned RFAs. I'm pretty sure they would pull high trade value from a team that realizes that whoever owns their rights has all of the leverage and control for a number of years ahead.

 

[irunthepeg]

Edit:

To Winnipeg:
Travis Dermott
Cam Fowler
Leaf's 2017 2nd round pick
Peter Holland

To Toronto:
Jacob Trouba
Ondrej Pavelec

To Anaheim:
James Van Riemsdyk
Kasperi Kapanen

In terms of hypothetical 3-way trades, where we aren't signing Trouba, I'd do this.

 

[Raymoondo]

Way too much for Trouba

Hard pass from Toronto

I meant in line with what Jets fans are expecting for Trouba. They rejected Nylander and Dermott + for Trouba, and I thing JVR + Kapanen is worth less than that.