Blue Jays Discussion: TOR Acquires Francisco Liriano, Scott Feldman, Mike Bolsinger
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Eyedea
The Legend Continues
You're skipping out on the 67 innings he pitched in AAA during the 1991 season.
Goonface2k14
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And what season was that where he threw 200+ innings before 1992?
Regardless, he is just one example of many pitchers who have had their innings increase greatly, without issues.
The situation calls for aggressive risk taking, to try and capture the title. Opportunity knocks. Now is definitely not the time to be conservative, unless you have other vested interests.
le_sean
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No arm troubles whatsoever...except for 1994 when he had an ERA+ of 85 in 147 IP and in 1995 an ERA+ of 75 in 135 IP. He was clearly really useful.
Eyedea
The Legend Continues
The innings didn't increase by as much as you're suggesting. They were basically the same in 1991 as they were in 1992.
Diamond Joe Quimby
A$AP Joffrey
5"11, 195. Threw 131 as a 19 year old, 157 as a 23 year old. 4-seam\Slider\Change
Aaron Sanchez is 6"5, 200. Sinker\4-seam\Curveball\Change. Brought up in the piggyback program.
There's no correlation.
Yeah Juan Guzman pretty much died after 1993.
Which brings the point of...do you really care that he pretty much died? Dude still made over $33M in his career. Its not like the Jays overworked him and just left him on the street after 1995 or something.
Which brings the point of...do you really care that he pretty much died? Dude still made over $33M in his career. Its not like the Jays overworked him and just left him on the street after 1995 or something.
Does "responsible for the future of the organization" count as a vested interest?
Woodman19
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In fairness, I think much of my opinion is rooted in me because I was one of the few who actually watched the Jays back when they had 3 pitchers blow out their arms in the span of like 8 days. I imagine if in the next couple weeks we saw 3 starters undergo TJ surgery, many people would be cautious next time around.
Is it weird that we have the exact opposite opinion on this but for the same reason?
Eyedea
The Legend Continues
No, but I think the management and ownership care a little bit. There's no guarantee that Sanchez starting brings us to the WS, or wins it (twice) like Guzman.
Woodman19
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Baseball reference says he pitched over 157 in AA in 1990, then over 200 AAA/MLB in 1991.
Woodman19
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Not at all, you want to capitalize while the iron is hot since it could happen again, and I want to avoid repeating the incident so we can capitalize on it for years.
Edit: If anything, I am the real greedy one because I want the last 2 years of Jays to occur for the next 10 years and not just 10 more weeks.
Eyedea
The Legend Continues
You mean 1992? It was definitely 1992. '96 was really good though, it just happened to be a one off however in between several mediocre to downright awful years.
Diamond Joe Quimby
A$AP Joffrey
I find it funny that each of us who were here have a different perspective on it. And likely all influenced from that year.
Goonface2k14
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Ok fair enough, so then jump back one season... he went from 68 innings in 1989 between AA and AAA, to 157 innings in 1990. That's a 131% increase in one season. Arm stayed in tact.
Point is, we don't know what will happen to Sanchez's health if he stays in the rotation, but we do know that the team's outlook from the day he is removed from the rotation is far more bleak for this season than it would be if he remained in the rotation.
le_sean
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Diamond Joe Quimby
A$AP Joffrey
131 was his previous career high (1986), so the increase should calculated off of that.
Its probably best to just seek a different example. Sale is one that helps that side of the argument.
I find it funny that each of us who were here have a different perspective on it. And likely all influenced from that year.
Also, Chris Carpenter and Dustin McGowan.
The one thing I will say is that I've always taken MiL innings to be of significantly less stress than ML innings since they are more controllable/less results focused.
Hutchison is actually a really good example here. He threw 70-ish innings in 2010 and then went up to to 150 in 2011. But I never really considered that a massive red flag, because it was more just because he went from short season to full season ball. Averaged 4.5 innings per start in 2010 and 5.5 in 2011 (based on his stats, I would guess that he wasn't massively stressed in any of them).
Of course, then 2012 happened.
Hutchison is actually a really good example here. He threw 70-ish innings in 2010 and then went up to to 150 in 2011. But I never really considered that a massive red flag, because it was more just because he went from short season to full season ball. Averaged 4.5 innings per start in 2010 and 5.5 in 2011 (based on his stats, I would guess that he wasn't massively stressed in any of them).
Of course, then 2012 happened.
Fantomas
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Good point. Fangraphs prefers Juan's 1992 season. Nevertheless Guzman was excellent in 1996.
Goonface2k14
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Aaron is one guy - let's not get carried away now.
Winning a World Series and creating a lifetime of memories for a fan base takes precedence over any one single player potentially getting hurt down the road.
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