Top NHL player in the 21st Century so far? #4(Inspired by ESPN ranking)

[wetcoast]

4th in a series of polls defining the top 25 so far in the 21st Century.

Previous polls are here,

Top NHL player in the 21st Century so far? #1(Inspired by ESPN ranking)

ESPN recently had their top NHL player in the 21st century so far so I thought I would do a series of polls on it here. https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/40568433/ranking-top-25-nhl-players-21st-century When Selecting players please use only their play in the NHL in the 21st century, nothing...

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Top NHL player in the 21st Century so far? #2(Inspired by ESPN ranking)

This is the second poll in a series, first poll results are here. https://forums.hfboards.com/threads/top-nhl-player-in-the-21st-century-so-far-1-inspired-by-espn-ranking.2973022/ This series of polls is inspired by the recent ESPN rankings here...

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Top NHL player in the 21st Century so far? #3(Inspired by ESPN ranking)

Third in a series of polls first 2 polls and results are here. https://forums.hfboards.com/threads/top-nhl-player-in-the-21st-century-so-far-2-inspired-by-espn-ranking.2973127/ https://forums.hfboards.com/threads/top-nhl-player-in-the-21st-century-so-far-1-inspired-by-espn-ranking.2973022/...

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so right now from the poll results it's

1.Crosby
3. Ovechkin
3. McDavid

Just like the ESPN poll asks who has been the 4rd best player in the 21st Century, NHL only, as in rankings all time if it was just for the 21st Century?

For example only use Lidstrom's resume in the NHL from 2000-2001 onwards.

Also name a player to add from this list of top 25 from ESPN or add your own.

12. Steven Stamkos
13. Leon Draisaitl
14. Joe Thornton
15. Auston Matthews
16. Erik Karlsson
18. Marc-Andre Fleury
19. Andrei Vasilevskiy
20. Jarome Iginla
21. Anze Kopitar
22. Pavel Datsyuk
23. Duncan Keith
24. Victor Hedman
25. Jonathan Quick

Click to read more...

 

[Three On Zero]

Chara gets my pity vote again

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Lidström and his 7 Norris trophies + Smythe gets my vote

 

[Albatros]

All credit to Gordie Howe but Lidström has the best 30+ career in league history.

 

[Mrb1p]

Respect for having Price on there. Many underrate his value as a player.

On talent/paper/any day of the week I take him. Are we discussing accomplishment and everything or pure talent? Otherwise Lidstrom and Pronger have a serious case.

 

[banks]

I could argue myself into a lot of different options here. Lids, Malkin, Kane, Price are all worth discussing.

I went with Malkin.

Add Stamkos.

 

[WalterLundy]

Malkin. 2009 Smythe and 2012 regular season peaks are just insane.

 

[bobholly39]

Malkin

I'd probably go Kucherov next, followed by Kane

 

[Midnight Judges]

IMO there is no way Lidstrom minus 8 of his excellent seasons has a better career than Malkin.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Hart record
Kane 1, 6, 6*, 7, 8
Kucherov 1, 2, 6, 8
MacKinnon 1, 2, 2, 3, 5, 6
Malkin 1, 2*, 2, 7
* also won the Smythe that year

Clearly this is oversimplified so don’t take it for more than it is, but Hart contending seasons tend to be the single biggest factor when comparing this tier of players.

MacKinnon has already surpassed Malkin and Kane in this area. Kucherov has a chance to do the same. In the long run I think we will end up viewing MacKinnon as the ”greatest” of this group, especially if he has a typical career arc with at least a couple more Hart-relevant seasons ahead of him.

 

[Albatros]

IMO there is no way Lidstrom minus 8 of his excellent seasons has a better career than Malkin.

Malkin has three award-winning seasons, Lidström had seven since 2001.

 

[Lt Dan]

Blake Lizotte should be running away with this

 

[Bouboumaster]

Voted for the 4th best defenseman ever, Lidstrom

 

[wetcoast]

Respect for having Price on there. Many underrate his value as a player.

On talent/paper/any day of the week I take him. Are we discussing accomplishment and everything or pure talent? Otherwise Lidstrom and Pronger have a serious case.

It's similar to an all time ranking so take everything peak, playoffs prime and longevity ect for the 21st Century of play for each player.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Malkin has three award-winning seasons, Lidström had seven since 2001.

Apples and oranges. Malkin's awards are league-wide. Lidstrom's are mostly restricted to 1/3 of the players - a 1/3 that includes almost none of the actual best players.

Virtually nobody ever asserted Lidstrom was the best player in the world. Malkin was in the conversation for a time and almost inarguably was in 2012.

 

[SirPaste]

Lidstrom quite easily

Apples and oranges. Malkin's awards are league-wide. Lidstrom's are mostly restricted to 1/3 of the players - a 1/3 that includes almost none of the actual best players.

Virtually nobody ever asserted Lidstrom was the best player in the world. Malkin was in the conversation for a time and almost inarguably was in 2012.

He is/was widely asserted as one of the best defenseman of all time, top 5 for sure. Can you say the same for Malkin with his respective position?

 

[Midnight Judges]

He is/was widely asserted as one of the best defenseman of all time, top 5 for sure. Can you say the same for Malkin with his respective position?

Not without 8 of his seasons he isn't. Perhaps you are misreading the poll? This series only credits Lidstrom with things that happened after 1/1/2000. So basically his career starts at age 29 for our purposes here. He loses 650 regular season games and 114 playoff games in this (arbitrary) comparison. They count for nothing.

Anyway, the pool of defensemen - all-time greats - doesn't remotely compete with forwards.

 

[Video Nasty]

Brodeur. Four Vezinas plus three additional finalist nominations. Three Hart finalist nominations and two additional top 5 nods. 819 games and 447 wins. 3 SCF appearances and a win. All from age 28 on (assuming this is starting with the 2000-2001 season, if not, tack on another Cup, another Conn Smythe worthy playoff run, another top 5 Vezina nomination, and pushing 900 games played and 500 wins).

 

[LarKing]

Lidstrom pretty easily. 7 Norris trophies, good for second all time (tied). As good as Malkin was, nobody is going to argue him as a top 3 forward of all time.

Also, I get that he has less seasons here compared to others. But truthfully I find that a bit silly because then he wouldn't really fully count for either

 

[Albatros]

Apples and oranges. Malkin's awards are league-wide. Lidstrom's are mostly restricted to 1/3 of the players - a 1/3 that includes almost none of the actual best players.

Virtually nobody ever asserted Lidstrom was the best player in the world. Malkin was in the conversation for a time and almost inarguably was in 2012.

Malkin wasn't even the best player in his own team, Crosby just missed much of the season in 2011/12.

 

[wetcoast]

IMO there is no way Lidstrom minus 8 of his excellent seasons has a better career than Malkin.

7 Norris trophies and around 9 top 10 finishes.and a pretty good playoff player to say the least.

 

[Mrb1p]

Apples and oranges. Malkin's awards are league-wide. Lidstrom's are mostly restricted to 1/3 of the players - a 1/3 that includes almost none of the actual best players.

Virtually nobody ever asserted Lidstrom was the best player in the world. Malkin was in the conversation for a time and almost inarguably was in 2012.

I mean Malkin clearly never was the best player in the league as Crosby was that man and Ovechkin for like 2 other years and then Price/Kane/McDavid.

Best player went post lockout went something like:
Joe
Ovi
Sid
Price
McDavid

 

[Midnight Judges]

Malkin wasn't even the best player in his own team

Of course he was, and he put up a season in 2012 that is significantly better than any season ever from Crosby.

I mean Malkin clearly never was the best player in the league as Crosby was that man and Ovechkin for like 2 other years and then Price/Kane/McDavid.

Best player went post lockout went something like:
Joe
Ovi
Sid
Price
McDavid

So was it Crosby's half season or his quarter season that made him the best player in your opinion?

If Ovie was the best player from 2007-2010, and Malkin put up a season better than any season Crosby has ever had in 2012, I don't know where Sid sneaks in here.

Crosby was the best player during the two seasons when he won the Hart, and that's about it.

 

[Albatros]

Of course he was, and he put up a season in 2012 that is significantly better than any season ever from Crosby.

Even that year Crosby scored 1.68 ppg and Malkin 1.45 ppg.

With Crosby on ice the Penguins scored 6.2 ES and 9.1 PP goals /60. With Malkin 4.1 and 8.8 respectively. That although they often played together.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Even that year Crosby scored 1.68 ppg and Malkin 1.45 ppg.

With Crosby on ice the Penguins scored 6.2 ES and 9.1 PP goals /60. With Malkin 4.1 and 8.8 respectively.

It's a 22 game sample size for Sid and a 75 game sample size for Malkin.

There is zero chance the Crosby fans are making this argument if the names are reversed.

7 Norris trophies and around 9 top 10 finishes.and a pretty good playoff player to say the least.

Again, it's 900 games of age 29-40 Lidstrom vs 1150 games of Malkin including his prime.

I think people are having a hard time looking past the names.