Top-200 Hockey Players of All-Time - Preliminary Discussion Thread

[Michael Farkas]

Only recency bias could put Bure above Cowley.

Or that the meat of Cowley's resume happens during War years...why would anyone speak in such absolutes about something that is clearly so debatable...?

I'll believe in Cowley enough because he performed before the War years...but it sure is interesting that he went from a 1.07 point per game player through the age of 29, to a 1.56 point per game player in his early 30's...

A player who never had more 17 goals in a season, knocked off three straight 25+ goal seasons (including 30 in 36 games) when all the good players went away...

It's really not hard to make a case against Cowley that isn't recency bias...

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Among offense-only wingers, I have Sweeney Schriner and possibly Gordie Drillon over Bure.

But Bure's still comfortably on my list.

I don't even have Drillon on my list.

 

[VanIslander]

C'mon.

Cowley twice led the NHL in assists, won the Hart trophy, led the NHL in playoff assists and points to the Stanley Cup, all BEFORE Pearl Harbor.

Technically, 1939 and 1941 were war years but the war-depleted line-ups didn't happen until after 1941.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Here's young Bure...backchecking and hitting folks...

As I think late career Bure has a little bit of recency bias to it too...

 

[Michael Farkas]

C'mon.

Cowley twice led the NHL in assists, won the Hart trophy, led the NHL in playoff assists and points to the Stanley Cup, all BEFORE Pearl Harbor.

Technically, 1939 and 1941 were war years but the war-depleted line-ups didn't happen until after 1941.

I'm aware of when the War years were...and I stated such. That doesn't mean that he doesn't get a lot of miles out of War time either...I can't imagine we're even having this conversation without him being able to hang around in the half-speed league like he did...

He did it and it is what it is...but I don't think it's fair to pretend that Cowley is untouchable...

 

[seventieslord]

My Gawd, imagine how much he'd get scored on if he wasn't disrupting the opposition's offense so much...

 

[BenchBrawl]

My point wasn't about Bure's defense or lack thereof, but about Florida exclusively focusing on making him score goals because he was an island there. The Peter Bondra syndrome.

 

[VanIslander]

Patrick Kane > Pavel Bure

Pavel Bure > Ilya Kovalchuk

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Patrick Kane > Pavel Bure

Pavel Bure > Ilya Kovalchuk

Again, Patrick Kane is in the top 100.

Why are you comparing Bure negatively to players who are already in the top 100?

 

[VanIslander]

Negatively?

I'm just ensuring the Bure hype is put into context.

 

[ted2019]

Among offense-only wingers, I have Sweeney Schriner and possibly Gordie Drillon over Bure.

But Bure's still comfortably on my list.

I have Bure in my 95-100

 

[ted2019]

Hitting is not defense. Particularly the way Ovechkin hits, which was typically an after-the-fact hit...he rarely hit players to successfully dislodge the puck...

I've seen lots of Caps games as they are shown in the Philly CSN Network as they are an affiliate and are on when the Flyers aren't playing. Ovechkin maybe plays defense one shift per game.

 

[ted2019]

Ovechkin finishes his checks.

It is part of defensive play.

Watch the videos i linked. He disrupted the opposition's offense!

 

[Professor What]

I don't even have Drillon on my list.

I've got him on my list, but he's way below Bure.

I have Bure in my 95-100

Ditto, and I think it's going to stay that way.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Maybe I just need to accept that this list is going to be half 1990s players.

 

[Professor What]

Maybe I just need to accept that this list is going to be half 1990s players.

I think Drillon's a very worthy inclusion, and there's absolutely zero chance that he could get bumped off of my list at this point. I just don't have him that high, largely because of a lack of longevity. He's quite safely within my top 200, but not in my top 150 right now. I'd be very interested in reading an argument as to why he should be higher.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Among offense-only wingers, I have Sweeney Schriner and possibly Gordie Drillon over Bure.

After the reveal of the Aggregate List, I'd tapped Drillon as a possible candidate for top player not mentioned by anyone on their respective lists of 120. As anyone who's even made a start of crafting their lists with an eye on the Aggy List, there are other possibilities for that distinction-

Michel Goulet, for one. Larry Murphy, for another. My current choice for that honor, however- is Frank Fredrickson.

 

[ted2019]

Maybe I just need to accept that this list is going to be half 1990s players.

I think that's a wee bit of exaggeration.

 

[ted2019]

After the reveal of the Aggregate List, I'd tapped Drillon as a possible candidate for top player not mentioned by anyone on their respective lists of 120. As anyone who's even made a start of crafting their lists with an eye on the Aggy List, there are other possibilities for that distinction-

Michel Goulet, for one. Larry Murphy, for another. My current choice for that honor, however- is Frank Fredrickson.

Frankie is my main man.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

After the reveal of the Aggregate List, I'd tapped Drillon as a possible candidate for top player not mentioned by anyone on their respective lists of 120. As anyone who's even made a start of crafting their lists with an eye on the Aggy List, there are other possibilities for that distinction-

Michel Goulet, for one. Larry Murphy, for another. My current choice for that honor, however- is Frank Fredrickson.

All 3 of those guys are on my list.

I don't get the love for Drillon.

Poor defensively, played in a weak era and played only 7 seasons.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Maybe I just need to accept that this list is going to be half 1990s players.

Just because of Bure over Drillon?

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Syd Howe and Hooley Smith?

In or out?

 

[ted2019]

Syd Howe and Hooley Smith?

In or out?

Syd in, Holley probably between #190-210 for me.

 

[ted2019]

I have my top 180 done, just the bottom tier to do.

 

[Professor What]

Syd Howe and Hooley Smith?

In or out?

Both in for me.