Top-100 Hockey Players of All-Time - Preliminary Discussion Thread (Revenge of Michael Myers)

[Dr John Carlson]

Surprised by the Stamkos inclusion.

 

[K Fleur]

Roy over Hasek all day.

Hasek has an edge over Roy in peak regular
season performance, but the gap Roy holds over Hasek in the playoffs is enormous. Significantly larger of a gap than Hasek holds over Roy in the regular season.

 

[BenchBrawl]

- Hayley Wickenheiser

 

[BenchBrawl]

I'm disappointed that @seventieslord didn't include Pierre Turgeon

 

[overg]

Yup, they all give up a goofball one from time to time...the one you highlighted didn't matter...Hasek's often did and they came more frequently...

I have some macro-level data that will back this that will be unleashed when appropriate...

Didn't matter?!? Are you talking about the Roy statue of liberty goal, or are you referencing something else?

Because the statue of liberty goal was without a doubt what broke Colorado that year. The series instantly went from one where Detroit was controlling play but Colorado had the lead (the score was tied 0-0, with the Av's having a 3-2 series lead) to one that Detroit had in the bag. Roy was also terrible in the following series deciding game.

And with all due respect to Carolina, whoever won that Av's -Wings tilt was going to win the Cup. So Roy's gaffe that year was HUGE.

 

[BenchBrawl]

@quoipourquoi can you also give us the list of all players ranked on every list please?

I predict best player not to be ranked is either Newsy Lalonde or Sprague Cleghorn, but assuming the screeners rejected such lists, I'll go with Joe Malone.

 

[DannyGallivan]

This gif, especially in context, is absolutely hilarious.

 

[MXD]

At first glance I'd pick Frank Fredrickson as the best unranked player.

Him or Keats IMO

I'm still sticking with Rayner. If only because he's the the only player not in the list above that I even considered.
I expected both Fredrickson and Keats to be ranked. I DIDN'T expect Recchi to be ranked.

 

[BenchBrawl]

This gif, especially in context, is absolutely hilarious.

It's the best GIF of them all.Never gets old.

 

[The Macho King]

Surprised by the Stamkos inclusion.

Wasn't me.

 

[sr edler]

At first glance I'd pick Frank Fredrickson as the best unranked player.

I had him on my preliminary draft but he got kicked off for having too few elite years. I'm a little surprised no one listed Punch Broadbent or Jack Darragh. I thought about listing Darragh myself (because of his playoffs).

 

[BenchBrawl]

I had him on my preliminary draft but he got kicked off for having too few elite years. I'm a little surprised no one listed Punch Broadbent or Jack Darragh. I thought about listing Darragh myself.

Fredrickson had a solid 6-7 years prime which is ''hidden'' behind the mess of the split leagues.His offense was fluctuating but he was always getting some recognition every year.

Broadbent and Darragh weren't close to making it for me.

 

[sr edler]

Fredrickson had a solid 6-7 years prime which is ''hidden'' behind the mess of the split leagues.His offense was fluctuating but he was always getting some recognition every year.

So why didn't you list him then?

 

[Michael Farkas]

Every team tries to play to their goalie's strengths. Unlike, say, Brodeur's Devils with Stevens, Niedermeyer, and a slew of superb two-way forwards, Buffalo did not have much in the way of two-way talent, except Peca. Hasek was an all-around mess in Chicago, facing the same struggles all Eastern Block immigrants faced. Once he settled in, he became a legend. Every great goalie had his share of terribad playoff experiences: Sawchuk, Brodeur, Roy, you name it. Hasek had one legendary playoff run and a few really good one. Lemeiux had, to my count, three legendary playoff runs (including the time his team won an entire series for him). So, yeah, Hasek was a great playoff goaltender. Not on the level of Roy, but Roy lost to Hasek every time they've met. So maybe it is rain on your leg after all.

First statement is not true. Teams often play to their own skater's strengths (2009 to 2018 Penguins for instance).

Buffalo had plenty of two-way and defensive forwards...some people act like he was dragging around this expansion team...the Sabres had made in the Division Final without him the year before he got there (losing to Roy and the Cup champs). When given the reigns, he proceeded to not return them to that level until 1997. He was 7-7 in playoff series in Buffalo. His run in 1999 was outstanding, no question. The rest of it is various shades of gray...

The idea isn't that no other goalie has had a bad playoff experience...it's that Hasek is underwhelming compared to the peers that we're talking about...easy peasy...

We just need to get the "Hasek was a great playoff goaltender" out of the way...because we have not yet hurdled the "Hasek was a 'meh' playoff goaltender" first...

Hasek never scored on Roy, so I'm not that interested in that factoid...as Hasek was part of the team that lost to Roy in 1993...

 

[BenchBrawl]

So why didn't you list him then?

I decided to push for two-way centers that played on dynasties as my last batch of centers.So many players, so few spots.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Didn't matter?!? Are you talking about the Roy statute of liberty goal, or are you referencing something else?

Because the statue of liberty goal was without a doubt what broke Colorado that year. The series instantly went from one where Detroit was controlling play but Colorado had the lead (the score was tied 0-0, with the Av's having a 3-2 series lead) to one that Detroit had in the bag. Roy was also terrible in the following series deciding game.

And with all due respect to Carolina, whoever won that Av's -Wings tilt was going to win the Cup. So Roy's gaffe that year was HUGE.

I was talking about the SoL goal and I was incorrect. I cross-pollinated game 6 and game 7 and had remembered the SoL goal as the 4-0 goal in game 7 for some reason...no the 1-0 goal in game 6. My apologies. Good thing we have video to check this stuff out haha

Thanks for the correction, I was way off.

 

[ResilientBeast]

I feel like I'm missing something lol

 

[BenchBrawl]

I feel like I'm missing something lol

You're not missing anything.My head exploded as I saw a female player actually ranked.

Probably a token 120th vote.No big deal.

Should have been rejected and corrected though.Even if you want to push a ''Tennis-like'' ideology, that females should be compare to males on an equal footing through what they did against their peers, having only one female player breaks this.

I myself missed MacInnis by accident, then corrected the mistake.

 

[Sentinel]

First statement is not true. Teams often play to their own skater's strengths (2009 to 2018 Penguins for instance).

Buffalo had plenty of two-way and defensive forwards...some people act like he was dragging around this expansion team...the Sabres had made in the Division Final without him the year before he got there (losing to Roy and the Cup champs). When given the reigns, he proceeded to not return them to that level until 1997. He was 7-7 in playoff series in Buffalo. His run in 1999 was outstanding, no question. The rest of it is various shades of gray...

The idea isn't that no other goalie has had a bad playoff experience...it's that Hasek is underwhelming compared to the peers that we're talking about...easy peasy...

We just need to get the "Hasek was a great playoff goaltender" out of the way...because we have not yet hurdled the "Hasek was a 'meh' playoff goaltender" first...

Hasek never scored on Roy, so I'm not that interested in that factoid...as Hasek was part of the team that lost to Roy in 1993...

Luckily, what "you're not interested in," doesn't decide a heck of a lot.

 

[The Macho King]

So I ended up having Mikita pretty high, but I'm now wondering if I erred there. Where is he generally on y'alls lists?

 

[DannyGallivan]

So I ended up having Mikita pretty high, but I'm now wondering if I erred there. Where is he generally on y'alls lists?

I have him at 18, between Phil Esposito (17) and Kharlamov.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Luckily, what "you're not interested in," doesn't decide a heck of a lot.

The problem, I guess, is that I represent the majority in the Hasek vs. Roy head to head thing...and the, what, three series they have played - none in their respective primes or whatever it is...

 

[Canadiens1958]

Open mind, yes. Preconceived notions - no. I'm not coming into this thing a baby devoid of all knowledge of hockey history. The top 4 are the top 4 because they're the top 4, not because I don't have an open mind. People are free to hold a different opinion, and if there is actually anyone remotely close I look forward to the debate, but...

I mean...

...

There isn't. The top 4 is the top 4 because they are the top 4.

Two of the "sacred 4" simply underachieved in areas while overachieving in a transitional era.

 

[The Macho King]

I have him at 18, between Phil Esposito (17) and Kharlamov.

Maybe I just have Jagr too low...

 

[ImporterExporter]

So I ended up having Mikita pretty high, but I'm now wondering if I erred there. Where is he generally on y'alls lists?

19th.

Since his death, more peers have come out and reinforced the fact he was a strong 2 way C, especially after he got over his PIM splurge early in his career. He was elite in the dot, an elite point producer and did most of his damage without Hull at ES. One of the toughest pound for pound players in history. The abuse he put up with and played through is overlooked.