Top 10 General Managers?

[oconnor9sean]

Seguin trade was a home run.

I think the jury is still out on the moves for Spezza (trade and contract). That might not look too great in the next few years, and it evidently hasn't put them over the top yet.

The Seguin trade was excellent obviously, but more important in judging a GM is the performance of the team. So far for Nill we have a single 8th seed playoff appearance/1st round exit and this season the Stars would currently be out of the playoffs if they started today.



Not really much of a history to go on to say he is great...or really even good. Time will tell obviously.

I'll give you Seguin.
Spezza? Not that impressive and longer term he will likely start to decline soon.
I'd also dock him for icing that defensive corp.

I think there's a huge misconception on how the Stars' brass viewed this season. Nill inherited a team that was never bad enough for a top 5 pick, but never good enough for a playoff spot. He was able to acquire a franchise player for pretty cheap, and we needed it badly.

This year was not a make or break year for the Stars on any account. Yes, there was some preseason hype that hasn't been matched, but the goal has always been in 2-4 years when our core is in the right age.

Everyone talks about Dallas' defense, but really, what is he supposed to do? Guys like Klingberg, Oleksiak, Honka, etc in the prospect pool are showing serious potential. Would signing/trading for a guy like Yandle really take the team over the top? It wouldn't.

The Stars are in a season where the playoffs would be great, for extra experience when the core is ready to compete, but it's not a neccesity. If In three years when Seguin is 25, Nichushkin is 22, Nemeth, Oleksiak and Klingberg are vets, etc.. The team is still bad... Then yeah, Nill didn't do his job, but there's no point in making a panic move when this season is just the cherry on top.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Garth Snow is a classic example of even a blind squirrel finding an acorn once in a while. Remember, this guy literally gave away a 20 year old former top 5 pick a few years ago.

 

[Whileee]

I think there's a huge misconception on how the Stars' brass viewed this season. Nill inherited a team that was never bad enough for a top 5 pick, but never good enough for a playoff spot. He was able to acquire a franchise player for pretty cheap, and we needed it badly.

This year was not a make or break year for the Stars on any account. Yes, there was some preseason hype that hasn't been matched, but the goal has always been in 2-4 years when our core is in the right age.

Everyone talks about Dallas' defense, but really, what is he supposed to do? Guys like Klingberg, Oleksiak, Honka, etc in the prospect pool are showing serious potential. Would signing/trading for a guy like Yandle really take the team over the top? It wouldn't.

The Stars are in a season where the playoffs would be great, for extra experience when the core is ready to compete, but it's not a neccesity. If In three years when Seguin is 25, Nichushkin is 22, Nemeth, Oleksiak and Klingberg are vets, etc.. The team is still bad... Then yeah, Nill didn't do his job, but there's no point in making a panic move when this season is just the cherry on top.

Good points. In 3 years Spezza will be 34 and making $7.5 million. That's the puzzling thing, giving up future assets and a big contract to a player that doesn't really fit with the time-frame of the core.

 

[Machinehead]

In a world where you are trying to make a trade look better than it is.

We have an Eastern Conference Championship and one of the best records in the league since the trade. We don't have to make it look any better than it is.

 

[obey86]

I think there's a huge misconception on how the Stars' brass viewed this season. Nill inherited a team that was never bad enough for a top 5 pick, but never good enough for a playoff spot. He was able to acquire a franchise player for pretty cheap, and we needed it badly.

This year was not a make or break year for the Stars on any account. Yes, there was some preseason hype that hasn't been matched, but the goal has always been in 2-4 years when our core is in the right age.

Everyone talks about Dallas' defense, but really, what is he supposed to do? Guys like Klingberg, Oleksiak, Honka, etc in the prospect pool are showing serious potential. Would signing/trading for a guy like Yandle really take the team over the top? It wouldn't.

The Stars are in a season where the playoffs would be great, for extra experience when the core is ready to compete, but it's not a neccesity. If In three years when Seguin is 25, Nichushkin is 22, Nemeth, Oleksiak and Klingberg are vets, etc.. The team is still bad... Then yeah, Nill didn't do his job, but there's no point in making a panic move when this season is just the cherry on top.

I think we all understand that. But the point is that what you said above doesn't make Nill is a good/great GM. He hasn't proven enough...it's too early to say either way....as you just mentioned he's building the team for the long term....not to compete right now. So let's see how the team looks when his goal comes to (or doesn't come to) fruition. No?

When he shows he can (or can't) build a good team long term (like you said his goal is) then and only then will he be considered one of the best in the NHL. Until then? Who the heck knows.

 

[Stuzchuk]

Pulled off arguably the biggest coup in the past 5 years, and followed it up with landing Spezza. Those two things completely changed the complexion of the Stars going forward, regardless if they miss the playoffs this year.

I'd still put Holland in front of him

 

[Voight]

In no particular order:

-Holland, Poile and Yzerman are certainly up there. Should be on everyone's list.

-Chiarelli... I don't know. I feel he's overrated as of now. Character and grit is fine, but you need to have some talent as well. And some of their contracts will start to look bad sooner than later.

-Garth Snow is totally overrated just because the Islanders are having a great year so far.

-Bergevin:

He won't make moves very often, but when he does, it's always risk-free, incremental improvements. And we basically have zero dead wood on the team moving forward. Bergevin got rid of every dead cap space and redundant assets (Bourque, Moen, Budaj).

His only glaring mistake was that stupid bridge deal to PK Subban. Bergevin decided to play it hard and Subban did the same the second time around.

Kinda shocked you didn't put Bowman.

Garth Snow is a classic example of even a blind squirrel finding an acorn once in a while. Remember, this guy literally gave away a 20 year old former top 5 pick a few years ago.

Yea because that pick was going nowhere. Nino was never going to live up to a top 5 pick in NY and at least he got a serviceable player for him instead of waiting for Nino to become a great player and wasting his time.

Good points. In 3 years Spezza will be 34 and making $7.5 million. That's the puzzling thing, giving up future assets and a big contract to a player that doesn't really fit with the time-frame of the core.

In 3 years the cap could very well be 80 million dollars or close to it, depending now the economy and how the Canadian dollar does. At 80 cents right now it will be 72 million next year but if the reports are true it'll make a huge jump in 2017 up to the mid 70's. His contract won't look bad, especially in a world where Dave Bolland makes 5.5 million a year.

 

[Frank Drebin]

We have an Eastern Conference Championship and one of the best records in the league since the trade. We don't have to make it look any better than it is.

Wasn't trying to say it was a bad trade. Just not the coup that that poster was making it out to be.

When did you win the Eastern conference?

 

[Voight]

Wasn't trying to say it was a bad trade. Just not the coup that that poster was making it out to be.

When did you win the Eastern conference?

They were in the cup finals last season?

 

[aisle18]

Garth Snow is a classic example of even a blind squirrel finding an acorn once in a while. Remember, this guy literally gave away a 20 year old former top 5 pick a few years ago.

Yea that stupid Garth Snow and his trading of malcontent kids for integral role players. What a horrible decision.

 

[seafoam]

Garth Snow is a classic example of even a blind squirrel finding an acorn once in a while. Remember, this guy literally gave away a 20 year old former top 5 pick a few years ago.

Yeah, because Niederreiter is really rippin' it up.

The Islanders are more than happy with getting Clutterbuck in that trade. He has solidified their bottom six, works hard every shift, and brings character to an Islanders locker room filled with it (thanks to Snow).

The Snow hate is this thread is rich.

Wasn't trying to say it was a bad trade. Just not the coup that that poster was making it out to be.

When did you win the Eastern conference?

They won the East last year when they defeated Montreal and went on to play Los Angeles in the Stanley Cup Finals.

Yea that stupid Garth Snow and his trading of malcontent kids for integral role players. What a horrible decision.

Nino wouldn't even be on the Isles roster if he was still in the organization today. Anders Lee is better, and has a better attitude. I don't remember him *****ing about being sent down over Conacher & others. Instead, he kept working hard in the minors when he got his shot again, he didn't look back.

Meanwhile, Nino hasn't scored a goal in over a month.

 

[uncommonsense52]

The blues are ****ing loaded.

However most of it goes back to JD, Jarmo, and Pleau regime.

Although I believe Armstrong made the EJ for Shatty and Stewart trade.

The Perron trade was a bust so far.

The Miller trade was a huge bust outside of getting Stewart off the books.

Bringing in Lehtera has been solid.

Signing Ott was a total waste.

The Stasny deal is great with the term. So was the Steen deal.

But those are still pretty softball set ups.

I will give him some major props. He was wrong about Miller and going with a higher priced goalie.

Going with Ells at 2.5 mil term for 3 years is just a great move that frees up 3-4 million for Tank and Schwartz instead of paying Miller or someone else to be worse than Ells.

Armstrong breaks even at best with the way he's managed the Blues. He inherited an amazing roster for the future, and has only found ways to trade off those assets he was given with lesser assets.

I disagree about Stastny. I have since the moment we signed him. He's a good player, I'm glad to have him aboard, but $7 million for him is, was, and always will be way too much.

The Miller trade was a bust, but I respect armstrong for making it. You're not going to win by sitting on your hands. He went out and tried to turn a contender into a super-power, and sure, it blew up in his face, but sometimes you've gotta gamble a little.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

How? He made one bad trade (Vanek) lol....People always think Garth signed DP to that ridiculous contract, which isn't true. You forgot to mention the Leddy and Boychuk trades, which is a good reason that the team is in first right now.

Also, everyone forgets to mention how good Garth is with signing players to a very low price. Not his fault the owner is very cheap.

Tavares 5.5
Okposo 2.8
Nielsen 2.75
Hamonic 3.85
de Haan 1.9
Halak 4.5

... Snow did sign DP to that 15 year contract. That's why people think he did, because he most certainly did.

Snow hasn't been a good GM, he's just been allowed to keep the team a bottom feeder so long that by almost just a numbers game alone it's finally starting to turn around. The moves he made this past off-season weren't so much a part of any long term plan, they were just opportunistic moves taking advantage of other teams' cap problems. You get some credit for taking advantage of that sort of situation, but to base a long term plan around having other teams finding themselves in a bad place isn't a great way to run an organization.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

The fact that Sather isn't being mentioned more is absurd. I don't even want to waste my time laying out a case for him, if you're a hockey fan you should be aware of who the New York Rangers are already. And they've most certainly been guided very well by Slats for a while now.

 

[Voight]

... Snow did sign DP to that 15 year contract. That's why people think he did, because he most certainly did.

I believe Wang negotiated that deal and it was his idea.

I could be wrong, but I'm almost sure thats what I've heard.

 

[Colt 55]

Armstrong breaks even at best with the way he's managed the Blues. He inherited an amazing roster for the future, and has only found ways to trade off those assets he was given with lesser assets.

I disagree about Stastny. I have since the moment we signed him. He's a good player, I'm glad to have him aboard, but $7 million for him is, was, and always will be way too much.

The Miller trade was a bust, but I respect armstrong for making it. You're not going to win by sitting on your hands. He went out and tried to turn a contender into a super-power, and sure, it blew up in his face, but sometimes you've gotta gamble a little.

Armstrong paid market value for Stastny and it is as simple as that.

 

[aisle18]

... Snow did sign DP to that 15 year contract. That's why people think he did, because he most certainly did.

Snow hasn't been a good GM, he's just been allowed to keep the team a bottom feeder so long that by almost just a numbers game alone it's finally starting to turn around. The moves he made this past off-season weren't so much a part of any long term plan, they were just opportunistic moves taking advantage of other teams' cap problems. You get some credit for taking advantage of that sort of situation, but to base a long term plan around having other teams finding themselves in a bad place isn't a great way to run an organization.

Give Garth credit or not, I personally don't really care but some of you people are delusional. By your logic, give ANY GM enough time and they will end up with a contender on their hands. What are you smoking bro?

 

[Kel Varnsen]

I believe Wang negotiated that deal and it was his idea.

I could be wrong, but I'm almost sure thats what I've heard.

Sure there is reason to believe it was Wang's idea, but Wang didn't go over Snow's head to get it done. Snow is the man who inked it.

 

[Voight]

Sure there is reason to believe it was Wang's idea, but Wang didn't go over Snow's head to get it done. Snow is the man who inked it.

Not exactly. I'm almost positive Wang essentially went over Snows head. I'm sure he asked Snow and Snow said it would be a horrible idea but Wangs got nothing but money so he went ahead with it. Snow can ink contracts all he wants but they mean nothing until Wang signs them.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

any GM who's success is based on Gary Bettman handing them franchise level superstars losses a significant part of his credibility for "best GM"

that is the EXACT SAME as winning the state lottery and calling yourself a great businessman

so bump down the GM's who's teams have had top 5 picks in the last 7 years to which their respective organizations success is largely or almost exclusively dependent on

 

[GTA]

Where is the love for Brian Murray?

He may have never won the cup, but it can be said that he was instrumental in building/drafting a couple of teams that did (Anaheim, Detroit). A classy gentleman, student and lover of the game of Hockey, a hall of fame-esque tenure in the NHL, currently icing a competitive rebuilding team on a shoestring budget while fighting stage 4 cancer yet potentially laying the foundation for a future Eastern Conference powerhouse.

Murray's draft this year will be interesting and judging by his track record, very good. I would give him top contention for top-ten GM.

What kind of babble is this...who cares that he isclassy, loves hockey and had cancer...has absolutely no bearing on whether he is a good GM or not. Also...laying the foundation for a potential east powerhouse? The Sens are a less that average team with an average prospect group and an average core...you could literally say any the could *potentially* be a powerhouse in the future. I think the Alfredsson debaucle goes a lot way in discounting him from top 10 talks.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

any GM who's success is based on Gary Bettman handing them franchise level superstars losses a significant part of his credibility for "best GM"

that is the EXACT SAME as winning the state lottery and calling yourself a great businessman

so bump down the GM's who's teams have had top 5 picks in the last 7 years to which their respective organizations success is largely or almost exclusively dependent on

Yep. It's crazy how many people are crediting teams as being well run when really they've just been extremely poorly run for such a long time that they managed to fall ass backwards into can't miss top prospects.

 

[aisle18]

Sure there is reason to believe it was Wang's idea, but Wang didn't go over Snow's head to get it done. Snow is the man who inked it.

Wang is the owner, A.K.A the boss, what do you mean he didn't go over Snow's head??? He is already OVER his head. What he says goes. He is the man who signs the checks.

 

[GTA]

any GM who's success is based on Gary Bettman handing them franchise level superstars losses a significant part of his credibility for "best GM"

that is the EXACT SAME as winning the state lottery and calling yourself a great businessman

so bump down the GM's who's teams have had top 5 picks in the last 7 years to which their respective organizations success is largely or almost exclusively dependent on

So which GM do you count then that has shown sustained success without top 10 picks? Interesting that a Detroit fan says this.

I'd say Holland but resigning Clearly...yikes. Just a horrible hockey move.

 

[Voight]

Yep. It's crazy how many people are crediting teams as being well run when really they've just been extremely poorly run for such a long time that they managed to fall ass backwards into can't miss top prospects.

Yet Edmonton has had top 10 picks every year since 2009 and still sucks.

You can have top picks all you want but you need to be a good GM to form the team round them, a la Tallon/Bowman/Lombardi etc.