Top 10 Best NHL Players of All Time

[Dingo]

In reading some of the rankings here, I thought I had inadvertently ventured onto the main board rather than HOH. It is unbelievable that so many people have Bobby Hull out of the top 10. A solid #5 for me. Here is an example of his play in the 1976 Canada cup in the twilight of his career.

he was legitimately one of the best players in that tournament.

 

[MadLuke]

He was almost 38 during that tourney, very similar to Crosby-Malkin for the upcoming Olympics

 

[bobholly39]

Well I'll give you credit for creating the worst list I've ever seen

Worst? Some guy upthread had Datsyuk in his top 10 lol.

 

[Dingo]

He was almost 38 during that tourney, very similar to Crosby-Malkin for the upcoming Olympics

the stars from the 06 aged as well as the star players have since about 1990.

just the guys in between, drafted from 1970-1985 or so, who didnt.

 

[Sentinel]

Yeah, okay. Now think about this:

-- Last spring, McDavid broke a Gretzky playoff scoring record.

No, he didn't.

-- Now, let's say this year or next year the Oilers get back to the Finals, and McDavid does a 2016-Crosby result with 3 points and -2 or whatever in the Finals.. and the Oilers win.

So, then, now he suddenly jumps into your top 10?

Yes.

 

[daver]

5: McDavid:

He is right at the point when Bobby Orr's body broke down, 9 years and 630 games in. If that's enough games to put Orr at 3rd I think it's enough games to put McDavid at 5th. McDavids peak might be better than Howes so I can actually see him climb up this list in the future which I never thought about Crosby.

I don't think that Orr established the "9 year/600 game" rule for rating players. He had accomplished enough in those 9 years that was, for some, the highest level of hockey ever played, and, for most, only arguably surpassed by Wayne and peak Mario.

For some, his lack of longevity places him behind Howe.

McDavid is pacing for #5 but I do not think we can say with that he clearly surpassed Howe's offensive peak level of play unless he does something that is better than his peak season so far. His peak level of play is on Crosby/Jagr tier; a level of play that is close to being gettable by others during their primes.

Sometimes these rating get caught so much in peaks/primes/ listing trophies etc... that we forget what I would consider one of the foundational considerations - Who was better at playing hockey?

It is not clear that McDavid is a better offensive player than Howe was.

 

[daver]

9: Crosby. Crosby at the start of his career is nearly GOAT level, but I feel like he lost momentum in his third season (though he started dominating in the playoffs). I'm not sure Crosbys age 22 season when he won the Richard is better than MacKinnons age 22 season in 2018 when he broke out and should've won the Hart.

After his age 22 season, Crosby had an Art Ross, a Hart, a Rocket, two more Top 3 Art Ross finishes, another Top 3 Hart finish, a Cup win, another SCF appearance, a playoff scoring title, and a playoff goalscoring title.

How many players would be rated above Crosby after their 5th season in NHL history, let alone after their age 22 season?

MacKinnon was not better than Crosby at age 22. Crosby was T2nd in scoring, 3 points off of the lead vs. 5th by MacKinnon (11 points behind). Their PPG dominance was similar. Crosby had less support from his linemates.

If one wants to use Hart voting as a metric, Crosby's Hart record propels him to #5 all-time, IMO, after considering league size.

 

[daver]

My big problem with Crosby are not the seasons between 11-13 when he had all those injuries, my problem are the seasons after that. He played 80, 77, 80, 75 and 82 games in the next 5 seasons against easy competition. This was before McDavid, Kucherov, Draisaitl and MacKinnon. Malkin and Stamkos were injured and Ov only scoring goals so I think a healthy Crosby should've dominated the awards these seasons. He won 2 cups in that period so I don't think he minds. We saw young McDavid winning back 2 back Art Ross trophies during that time which makes me feel like they are on a different level as offensive players.

This seems like a glass half empty view of his performance over this time period. Here is the glass half full version:

13/14 - Wins Art Ross by a % over 2nd place that is the highest in over 20 years; a period which includes 4 of Mario's wins and all 5 of Jagr's wins. He is inarguably the league's best player.

14/15 - Leads league in PPG despite his season being affected by illness.

15/16 - 2nd In Hart voting, wins the Conn Smythe. Still the league's best player.

16/17 - Leader in scoring until close to the end of the season; cements his legacy as a Top 10 all-time with another Cup and Conn Smythe, throw in a World Cup MVP and he is still the league's best player. He had one of the most successful calendars years in NHL history which ironically, included two concussions.

17/18 - He has nothing to accomplish in the regular season other than positioning the team to win a 3rd Cup in a row. He turns in one of the statistical best playoff performances of his era towards that effort.

He is the clear leader in points and PPG during this timeframe and the leader in playoff points over Malkin, Kane and Ovechkin.

This timeframe saw even lower scoring and more parity among the league's elite scorers than we saw during the DPE. Only prime McDavid would have been consistently breaking a 100 points from 2011 to 2017.

 

[daver]

Besides the Big 4, here are the Top 10 worthy:

Morenz
Shore
Richard
Beliveau
Harvey
Hull
Bourque
Hasek
Roy
Crosby
McDavid

Not a huge fan of including four players from the 06 era (a 25 year span) vs. only two from the pre-WWII era and only five from the post expansion era (almost 60 years) but it is what it is.

 

[bobholly39]

Besides the Big 4, here are the Top 10 worthy:

Morenz
Shore
Richard
Beliveau
Harvey
Hull
Bourque
Hasek
Roy
Crosby
McDavid

Not a huge fan of including four players from the 06 era (a 25 year span) vs. only two from the pre-WWII era and only five from the post expansion era (almost 60 years) but it is what it is.

Jagr and Ovechkin 100% belong in this grouping too.

 

[Hippasus]

Besides the Big 4, here are the Top 10 worthy:

Morenz
Shore
Richard
Beliveau
Harvey
Hull
Bourque
Hasek
Roy
Crosby
McDavid

Not a huge fan of including four players from the 06 era (a 25 year span) vs. only two from the pre-WWII era and only five from the post expansion era (almost 60 years) but it is what it is.

I think Jagr and Ovechkin are comparable in terms of career value to some of the names there, like Harvey, Bourque, Roy, and McDavid.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

No, he didn't.


Yes.

The post was worded awkwardly, but he did. He set the all time assists mark in a single playoff (a Gretzky record)

 

[jigglysquishy]

Jagr and Ovechkin 100% belong in this grouping too.

As do Lidström and Plante.

 

[waitin425]

Gretzky
Lemeiux
Orr
Howe
Sid
Ovechkin
Jagr
Lidstrom
Richard
Hasek

Some regency bias for sure. But it's how I see it.

McDavid should end in the top 10 possibly as high as 2. But, there is a lot of work left for him.

 

[bobholly39]

As do Lidström and Plante.

I won't argue too strongly if you want to include them since they're close - but I personally disagree.

I have Plante clearly behind Hasek and Roy as #3 goalie.
Lidstrom - I have him clearly behind Bourque and Harvey (and of course Orr).

So - for me to have either/or in top 10, it would mean I have to first find room for both Roy/Hasek, or for both Bourque/Harvey - and there are just too many forwards.

I have both Lidstrom and Plante in the next tier, ~15+. They're both probably at the top of that tier though

 

[jigglysquishy]

I won't argue too strongly if you want to include them since they're close - but I personally disagree.

I have Plante clearly behind Hasek and Roy as #3 goalie.
Lidstrom - I have him clearly behind Bourque and Harvey (and of course Orr).

So - for me to have either/or in top 10, it would mean I have to first find room for both Roy/Hasek, or for both Bourque/Harvey - and there are just too many forwards.

I have both Lidstrom and Plante in the next tier, ~15+. They're both probably at the top of that tier though

They can both be reasonably argued as best non Big Four in their position. Like, if someone has Lidström second Four defensemen it's not popular but it's certainly defendable.

I almost voted Plante ahead of Roy in the goalie project too. Plante with Roy and Hasek is defendable.

Basically, there are 15 players that can reasonably be argued as: third centre, second winger, second defenseman, or first goalie.

 

[daver]

Jagr and Ovechkin 100% belong in this grouping too.

I think Jagr is a solid Top 15 with Ovechkin close to him. Some clear differences between them and the other candidates. That being said, among forwards, Hull, Beliveau and Crosby are the only sure fire Top 10 players as I see them as the only clear #5 player all-time candidates among those listed (McDavid is pacing towards that).

 

[daver]

I think Jagr and Ovechkin are comparable in terms of career value to some of the names there, like Harvey, Bourque, Roy, and McDavid.

Among forwards, they are outside the Top 6 all-time. Bourque is arguably as high as #2 among d-men, as is Roy.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

1. Orr
2. Howe
3. Gretzky
4. Lemieux
5, Crosby
6. Hull
7. McDavid
8. Richard
9. Hasek
10. Shore

Nothing better to do at the moment so I did this.

Would probably change if I did it again tomorrow. Could include Ovechkin, Jagr, Harvey, Beliveau or Roy.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Chelios was tremendous. He gets stereotyped as old, slow, and violent, but he was able to adapt in three different teams to be a top defenseman in the world. His longevity is bonkers too, with elite level play across 20 years.

He could bring the offense too, finishing third in points on a very strong 1989 Habs. But when he was expected to stay back and shutdown (Red Wings) he did so.

For what it's worth, I have Chelios ranked 9th all-time among defensemen. As great as he was, I still think he's underrated by many (for the same reasons that Gordie Howe is). Younger fans assume that he was just "pretty good for a long time". Ironically his immense longevity turns into a strike against him.

(I wonder if, one day, the same thing will happen to Jagr. At this point, he's too recent and too popular. But 20 years from now, it's conceivable that people will criticize him for "only" averaging 1.11 points per game - behind his peers like Sakic, Yzerman, Lindros and Forsberg).

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Besides the Big 4, here are the Top 10 worthy:

Morenz
Shore
Richard
Beliveau
Harvey
Hull
Bourque
Hasek
Roy
Crosby
McDavid

Jagr and Ovechkin 100% belong in this grouping too.

As do Lidström and Plante.

For what it's worth - I think Daver's list, plus Jagr, Ovechkin and Lidstrom are the next tier that have a legitimate case for the top ten.

I like Plante, but for me he'd be in the next tier down (with players like Kelly, Potvin, Messier, Lafleur, etc) - all time greats with very little case for the top ten. I woudn't object to someone making a case for him, but I wouldn't say that his exclusion gives me a headache (like it would for say Jagr).

 

[gary69]

I'm sure such lists have been done before, but it would be interesting to list the evolvement of the "Alltime Top10" through years and decades.

Using Hockey News book "Century of Hockey" from late 1990s as reference, I'll start with something like this with some players without too much consideration.

At least by the end of 1930's (maybe even a decade earlier) there's enough organized hockey history, to come up with all-time lists.

So, who would be on the list at that time?

End of 1930's: maybe Cyclone Taylor, Didier Pitre, Joe Malone, Newsy Lalonde, George Hainsworth/Georges Vezina, Sprague Cleghorn, Howie Morenz, Eddie Shore, Charlie Conacher

End of 1940's: Maurice Richard must already be there, who does he replace? Anyone else, Dit Clapper perhaps?

End of 1950's: Gordie Howe certainly. If Harvey, Kelly, Believeau, Sawchuk too, then it's a lot of turnover. Who gets dropped outside of TOP10?

End of 1960's: Bobby Hull surely replaces someone, maybe Mikita, Plante and Glenn Hall?

End of 1970s: Bobby Orr is in, how about Lafleur, Esposito, Bobby Clarke?. More Canadiens? (Dryden? Robinson?)

End of 1980's: Gretzky now doubt. Perhaps Potvin, maybe Bossy and Trottier. Any other Oilers, maybe not? I guess no to Dionne or Stastny.

End of 1990's: Lemieux, Bourgue, Jagr, Hasek. If Messier is in too, then it's a lot of turnover again. Does Yzerman deserve any consideration? It's getting crowded and tough to make TOP 10 by now.

 

[jigglysquishy]

You can take our pre merger project, top 100, and kind of work through it.

1930
1. Nighbor
2. Taylor
3. Lalonde
4. Cleghorn
5. Vezina
6. Bowie
7. Malone
8. Gerard
9. Phillips
10. Morenz

1940
1. Morenz
2. Shore
3. Nighbor
4. Taylor
5. Cook
6. Lalonde
7. Boucher
8. Clancy
9. Conacher
10. Brimsek

1950
1. Morenz
2. Shore
3. Nighbor
4. Richard
5. Taylor
6. Cook
7. Lalonde
8. Boucher
9. Clancy
10. Apps

1960
1. Richard
2. Howe
3. Morenz
4. Shore
5. Nighbor
6. Taylor
7. Cook
8. Beliveau
9. Harvey
10. Kelly

1970
1. Howe
2. Hull
3. Beliveau
4. Harvey
5. Richard
6. Morenz
7. Shore
8. Kelly
9. Plante
10. Nighbor

1980
1. Howe
2. Orr
3. Hull
4. Beliveau
5. Harvey
6. Richard
7. Morenz
8. Shore
9. Kelly
10. Plante

1990
1. Gretzky
2. Howe
3. Orr
4. Hull
5. Beliveau
6. Harvey
7. Richard
8. Morenz
9. Shore
10. Lemieux

2000
1. Gretzky
2. Howe
3. Orr
4. Lemieux
5. Hull
6. Beliveau
7. Roy
8. Harvey
9. Richard
10. Bourque

2010 is likely same order at 2000

2020
1. Gretzky
2. Howe
3. Orr
4. Lemieux
5. Hull
6. Beliveau
7. Roy
8. Crosby
9. Harvey
10. Richard


This is, of course, using the top 100 as a guideline. In reality, Richard's influence would have loomed larger and for longer i.e. the 1998 Hockey News list

 

[gary69]

Couple of quick comments on those lists.

It's an age old debate, Roy probably cracks top10 after Montreal won the Cup in 93 and did no harm to his reputation winning in 96 too, but I still think Hasek goes past him in subsequent years.

As great as Harvey was, can't still really justify keeping him in top10 over Shore.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Couple of quick comments on those lists.

It's an age old debate, Roy probably cracks top10 after Montreal won the Cup in 93 and did no harm to his reputation winning in 96 too, but I still think Hasek goes past him in subsequent years.

As great as Harvey was, can't still really justify keeping him in top10 over Shore.

I'm using this forum's list as the logic.

The forum has consistently had Harvey over Shore. And only ranked Hasek ahead of Roy for the first time a month ago.