Posted this list in another thread:
1:
Gretzky. Very strong argument for best regular season peak and a very strong argument for best playoff peak. Clearly the best regular season+playoff peak ever. Add on the best prime ever outside his peak seasons and he is the clear pick for number 1 for me even if he ''only'' played until he was 38.
2:
Howe: I think I have him 2, I never really thought about it that much before this list. I feel like his peak is close enough to the next 2 players that his massive edge in prime and longevity makes up for it.
3:
Orr: Maybe the highest peak ever, but nothing else. I also feel his teams should've done more in the playoffs. Unlike Mario I actually don't think Orr had another level to reach without injuries, he got to play with ideal teammates and superstars while healthy for a lot of seasons in his peak.
4:
Lemieux: Mario has some strong seasons outside his peak unlike Orr, but he has so few peak seasons I still place the defender ahead. I think he has the 3rd strongest peak behind Orr and Gretzky and I could see a case that Mario might've have missed out on his actual peak unlike Orr, but that doesn't affect my ranking.
5:
McDavid:
| Most Art Ross wins | |
| Wayne Gretzky | 11 |
| Gordie Howe | 6 |
| Mario Lemieux | 6 |
| Connor McDavid | 5 |
| Jaromir Jagr | 5 |
| Phil Esposito | 5 |
| Most times top 3 in points | |
| Wayne Gretzky | 15 |
| Gordie Howe | 12 |
| Mario Lemieux | 8 |
| Connor McDavid | 8 |
| Sidney Crosby | 8 |
| Phil Esposito | 8 |
| Stan Mikita | 8 |
| Highest playoff PPG | GP | PPG |
| Wayne Gretzky | 208 | 1,84 |
| Mario Lemieux | 107 | 1,61 |
| Connor McDavid | 74 | 1,58 |
| Most points in a season (no Wayne/Mario) | Season | GP | G | A | P | PPG |
| Steve Yzerman | 88-89 | 80 | 65 | 90 | 155 | 1,94 |
| Connor McDavid | 22-23 | 82 | 64 | 89 | 153 | 1,87 |
| Phil Esposito* | 70-71 | 78 | 76 | 76 | 152 | 1,95 |
| Bernie Nicholls* | 88-89 | 79 | 70 | 80 | 150 | 1,9 |
| Jaromir Jagr* | 95-96 | 82 | 62 | 87 | 149 | 1,82 |
*played with Wayne, Orr or Mario
He is right at the point when Bobby Orr's body broke down, 9 years and 630 games in. If that's enough games to put Orr at 3rd I think it's enough games to put McDavid at 5th. McDavids peak might be better than Howes so I can actually see him climb up this list in the future which I never thought about Crosby.
6:
Bourque. The Howe of defensemen. Strong peak and GOAT longevity. Also strong in playoffs. Not sure I think his peak is as impressive among defensemen as Howe is for forwards though. I feel that peak Howe would be favored to win the Hart against every forward in history except Mario and Wayne, I don't feel like that for Bourque. I could see players like Robinson or Pronger challenging even a peak Bourque. Still one of the best peaks ever for a defensemen, and my 2nd highest ranked d-man of all time.
7:
Jagr. Only Gretzky, Esposito and Jagr have won 4 straight Art Ross trophies. Jagr is also 2nd all time in scoring even though he played through the DPE, 2 lockouts and left for Russia. I also think he has a underrated peak. When McDavid had a dominant season with an asterisk in the covid year, and he proved that season was for real. Jagr had a 149 point season that get an asterisk because he played for that insane Pittsburgh team with Mario and Francis and he never hit 130+ points again. The thing is he did hit those levels again, only he hit them between seasons.
| 1999 Calendar Year | Team | GP | G | A | P | P/GP |
| Jaromir Jagr | PIT | 84 | 63 | 89 | 152 | 1,81 |
| Teemu Selanne | ANA | 84 | 48 | 61 | 109 | 1,3 |
| Paul Kariya | ANA | 86 | 42 | 54 | 96 | 1,12 |
| Pavol Demitra | STL | 85 | 35 | 55 | 90 | 1,06 |
| Theo Fleury | COL, NYR | 75 | 32 | 58 | 90 | 1,2 |
| Pierre Turgeon | STL | 75 | 35 | 53 | 88 | 1,17 |
| John LeClair | PHI | 78 | 41 | 46 | 87 | 1,12 |
| Eric Lindros | PHI | 70 | 37 | 50 | 87 | 1,24 |
| Joe Sakic | COL | 65 | 35 | 52 | 87 | 1,34 |
| Owen Nolan | SJS | 87 | 43 | 42 | 85 | 0,98 |
| Jeremy Roenick | PHX | 79 | 29 | 52 | 81 | 1,03 |
| Tony Amonte | CHI | 85 | 39 | 41 | 80 | 0,94 |
| Ziggy Palffy | NYI, LAK | 78 | 35 | 45 | 80 | 1,03 |
| Mike Modano | DAL | 79 | 37 | 42 | 79 | 1 |
| Mats Sundin | TOR | 75 | 34 | 41 | 75 | 1 |
| Mark Recchi | PHI | 77 | 26 | 49 | 75 | 0,97 |
| Petr Sykora | NJD | 83 | 29 | 43 | 72 | 0,87 |
| Ray Whitney | FLA | 85 | 30 | 41 | 71 | 0,84 |
| Alex Kovalev | PIT | 86 | 31 | 39 | 70 | 0,81 |
| Jason Allison | BOS | 80 | 22 | 48 | 70 | 0,88 |
This is the scoring in the calendar year 1999 in the middle of the dead puck era. His 149 point season with Mario was in 1996, 3 years earlier. This stretch of games was between Jagr's 2 seasons were he won the Art Ross with 20 points and then won the Art Ross while missing 19 games. Jagr has no Mario, Francis, Stevens or Coffey on his team. Only Wayne, Mario and McDavid has had more points in a year. Kovalev was Jagr's closest teammate with 70 points and finishing 19th in scoring this period. When Espositio hit 150 Bobby Orr had 139 (jesus), Bucyk had 116, Hodge had 105, Cashman had 79, McKenzie had 77 and Stanfield had 76. When McDavid hit 150+ we saw Draisaitl have 128 points, RNH have 104 and Hyman get 83. When Yzerman hit 150+ Gallant had 93 points, Adam Oates had 78 and Paul McClean had 71. This was Jagrs real peak.
His early playoffs are also underrated, and while his playoffs in his peak are not bad they are not like what McDavid has shown. I think Jagr is really hard to rank. When I compare him to Crosby I have Crosby ahead until age 23 (Jagr 149 point/Crosby first concussion). From that point Jagr is catching up and passing Crosby really quickly when Crosby is injured. But even when Crosby gets healthy Jagr is just better at this point. Even Washington Jagr was comparable to Crosby at the same age.
| From ages 29-31 | Team | PPG | Points |
| Jagr | WAS | 5th | 5th |
| Crosby | PIT | 4th | 3rd |
8:
Hasek. I had to have one goalie on this list and I chose Hasek because of his GOAT level peak. He entered the league in his peak so we have very little NHL longevity to go on, but judging how he won goalie of the year for 4 seasons in a row before entering the NHL I feel like he probably had more great seasons for us. I don't give bonus points for that, but I might've given him minus points if he had played and sucked before his peak (kind of unfair, but my list).
9:
Crosby. Crosby at the start of his career is nearly GOAT level, but I feel like he lost momentum in his third season (though he started dominating in the playoffs). I'm not sure Crosbys age 22 season when he won the Richard is better than MacKinnons age 22 season in 2018 when he broke out and should've won the Hart. Then Crosbys injuries started ofcourse, but after he got healthy and won the Ross at age 26 he didn't hit 90 points for the next 4 seasons even though he was healthy. I think he has been historically great after age 31.
My big problem with Crosby are not the seasons between 11-13 when he had all those injuries, my problem are the seasons after that. He played 80, 77, 80, 75 and 82 games in the next 5 seasons against easy competition. This was before McDavid, Kucherov, Draisaitl and MacKinnon. Malkin and Stamkos were injured and Ov only scoring goals so I think a healthy Crosby should've dominated the awards these seasons. He won 2 cups in that period so I don't think he minds. We saw young McDavid winning back 2 back Art Ross trophies during that time which makes me feel like they are on a different level as offensive players.
This all feels very critical, but it's only because on the surface Crosby is nearly flawless. All time longevity, all time winner and playoff performer, all time great start to his career and he could've had an all time peak too without injuries. I don't think Crosby is as perfect as that makes it sound.
10:
Phil Esposito. This is scoring leaders in 68-69:
| 1968-69 | GP | G | A | P | PPG |
| Esposito | 74 | 49 | 77 | 126 | 1,70 |
| Hull | 74 | 58 | 49 | 107 | 1,45 |
| Howe | 76 | 44 | 59 | 103 | 1,36 |
| Mikita | 74 | 30 | 67 | 97 | 1,31 |
| Hodge | 75 | 45 | 45 | 90 | 1,2 |
| Down at 23 in scoring: | | | | | |
| Orr | 67 | 21 | 43 | 64 | 0,96 |
In the playoffs:
| 1968-69 | GP | G | A | P | PPG |
| Esposito | 10 | 8 | 10 | 18 | 1,80 |
| Beliveau | 14 | 5 | 10 | 15 | 1,07 |
| Duff | 14 | 6 | 8 | 14 | 1,00 |
| Hodge | 10 | 5 | 7 | 12 | 1,20 |
| Bucyk | 10 | 5 | 6 | 11 | 1,1 |
| | | | | |
| Orr | 10 | 1 | 7 | 8 | 0,80 |
I think this season is pretty much as impressive as any of Lafleurs or Jagrs peak seasons and this is before Orr really started to become superhuman. We all know what happens to Esposito and his production when Orr reaches superstardom and I don't know how to properly evaluate those seasons and how much he becomes a product of Orr at that point. I assume that Esposito would atleast be capable of seasons like in 69 even if Orr didn't hit the next level. If I were to give Esposito more credit for his monster peak in the 70s then I might have him 6th. I understand people ranking Esposito lower than I do, but the guy had a super strong season before Orr (kind of) so it feels wrong to deduct points from him just because he happened to end up in an incredible situation for statpadding.
