Post-Game Talk: Tony Hawk

[Machinehead]

There's really nothing you can do to prevent dirty hits against your team. The best thing you can do is dish it out, which is why I don't shed a single tear for some of the hits Trouba throws.

Nobody cares when it happens to us.

 

[Larrybiv]

I am not a fan of Neanderthal hockey, but someone really needed to take Lafferty’s head off after the late and high hit to Chytil and running Shesterkin. I’m disappointed in the lack of response, but a good game otherwise.

Whatever good vibes about the victory that were there, was subtracted when the Rangers did absolutely NOTHING about it.
Okay fine, it was a close enough game at that point, but when it became 5-1 THAT is when there shou9ld have been some sort of vengeance.
I was highly disappointed in such, bu

How is Kane helping the Rangers? The Rangers don’t have a spot for him on the first unit PP. Kane's even strength production is non-existent.

Hope and prayers are why people buy power ball tickets.

There is no room for sentimentality.

No room. I don't even half get why we would want him. He is not going to magically score 40 anymore, we don't need anymore LW's unless we trade Kreider, and we don't need any more buddy buddy stuff that will help divide those 2 from the rest of the group.
get that extra dman or 2, OR a RW that can put the puck in the net from time to time on the 3rd line. Otherwise.......it would be overkill w/Kane just for Panarin's sake.

 

[mas0764]

It’s almost as if different players develop at different rates and come into their own at different ages… especially under extenuating circumstances like global pandemics that shutdown the league or they have been seriously injured…. Hahahah.
if anyone believes Blais, who was only one third of that trade, not THE acquisition, was expected to be scoring more than 20-30 points, they are mistaken. He was expected to throw 250-300 solid hits and chip in somewhere in that 20-30 range. Hopefully be defensively competent. That’s all. He was never ever seen as a replacement for Buch. If he hadn’t gotten cheap shotted out of his whole last season he very well may have been exactly that. If he is still here next year he may be exactly that. And That is a valuable role player in the NHL.

Blais was "the" acquisition in that trade no matter what package he was a part of, because the only other asset that came back was a second round pick, and if I'm not mistaken that pick was flipped for Copp, a rental who is already gone.

And that acquisition was F- value. There is zero justification for that move. Buch could have fetched far more as a deadline rental. If that was the best offer, which it wasn't, by the way, then Drury should have held his cards.

It would be nice if this conversation could, in fact, be finally over, but the defenders keep repeating things to make the trade seem like it wasn't the disaster that it definitely was.

 

[haohmaru]

I'm not sure we are watching the same guy. He is gigantic and isn't very physical. He is pretty bad with the puck and doesn't defend all that well. I'm not here to defend Hajek, but he hasn't been terrible. For the most part, he's been pretty decent.

We are - I’d like to give the guy more than 3 games to show what he’s got vs. the guy with a career 38 CF% in 110 NYR games.

 

[Leonardo87]

Trouba has been struggling this year no doubt, but since that helmet toss, the Rangers are in a better state right now and have won 7 games in a row. To me that defines a leader. He is also showing it on the ice and not just the locker room. Even though Trouba has not been 100% he has earned some respect from me.

 

[RangerLifer]

There's really nothing you can do to prevent dirty hits against your team. The best thing you can do is dish it out, which is why I don't shed a single tear for some of the hits Trouba throws.

Nobody cares when it happens to us.

 

[Peltz]

Well I'm not 15 or anywhere close to it, but this is a classic example of the guy is what he is. He's not a high upside, developmental player, a guy who you could look at like Kakko and say "Well he needs to have 4-5 years in the league first."

This guy is a banger and what you have seen in the league so far is all he will ever be, nearly without question. He has given no one any reason to believe there's another level he can take his game to. His game even at it's best was about a 25-30 point player in a bottom 6; and now he's not even that. He's an AHL player right now, about a 15 point NHL player. I was saying in the offseason Blais is only a "plus" player as a fourth liner but right now he's not even that, not anywhere close.

He's gotten tremendously, tremendously overrated by this fanbase because a certain segment of the fans were under the delusion that Chris Drury couldn't have made the worst trade in franchise history in acquiring this guy, but he did.

If the stars aligned for this guy here he would be late stage NYR Brian Boyle, best case scenario for us, but even that is a long shot right now.

Given our cap issues the guy should be moved immediately. Rydahl is probably a better option straight up. Vesey is definitely everything we wanted this guy to be - a bottom six glue guy who can play up in the lineup, score timely goals, and is cheap.

Extend Vesey if you can, for peanuts. We need contracts like that. Move Blais and his $1.6m yesterday.

Unfortunately, I agree. Late stage Brian Boyle would even be an upgrade over Blais since Boyle was great at winning faceoffs and defending.

 

[Peltz]

Blais was "the" acquisition in that trade no matter what package he was a part of, because the only other asset that came back was a second round pick, and if I'm not mistaken that pick was flipped for Copp, a rental who is already gone.

And that acquisition was F- value. There is zero justification for that move. Buch could have fetched far more as a deadline rental. If that was the best offer, which it wasn't, by the way, then Drury should have held his cards.

It would be nice if this conversation could, in fact, be finally over, but the defenders keep repeating things to make the trade seem like it wasn't the disaster that it definitely was.

It's a little hard to assess the trade fairly when the return player sustained a career-altering injury from a dirty play though. Was he ever going to bring the same value as Buch? No. But is it fair to assess the trade using the Blais we have today rather than the Blais we received at the start of last season?

No. It's not the same player. A torn ACL is something that some players never return from as "the same." And if they do, it takes years - longer than Blais's contract length with the team in any event. So for all intents and purposes, Subban ruined any potential trade value other than the glorious run that Copp helped the Rangers achieve last year.

 

[mas0764]

It's a little hard to assess the trade fairly when the return player sustained a career-altering injury from a dirty play though. Was he ever going to bring the same value as Buch? No. But is it fair to assess the trade using the Blais we have today rather than the Blais we received at the start of last season?

No. It's not the same player. A torn ACL is something that some players never return from as "the same." And if they do, it takes years - longer than Blais's contract length with the team in any event. So for all intents and purposes, Subban ruined any potential trade value other than the glorious run that Copp helped the Rangers achieve last year.

I can assess the trade on what it was reasonable to expect Blais to be, and even that is F- value.

The guy was never anything but a fourth line plug and never should have been expected to develop into a quality middle sixer.

And now he's not even a quality fourth liner. That's karma for you when you made terrible, foolishly reasoned trades.

When Drury failed to bring back either a young center or a first round pick, when in reality Buch should have been able to command both as a 25 year old 70 point wing, there is nothing else to call it but a massive failure that definitely overshadows all the glowing homer grades for his "awesome" trade deadline.

 

[Peltz]

I can assess the trade on what it was reasonable to expect Blais to be, and even that is F- value.

The guy was never anything but a fourth line plug and never should have been expected to develop into a quality middle sixer.

And now he's not even a quality fourth liner. That's karma for you when you made terrible trades.

I think he could have been a solid 3rd liner.

 

[mas0764]

I think he could have been a solid 3rd liner.

On a bad team maybe.

On a Cup winner team with Cup winning depth he's a fourth liner. When he was good!

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

We are - I’d like to give the guy more than 3 games to show what he’s got vs. the guy with a career 38 CF% in 110 NYR games.

Or we can just play Jones who’s better than both

 

[duhmetreE]

Or we can just play Jones who’s better than both

I feel like that time is gone.

Gallant wants size. The team will trade for an Edmundson type if they want to upgrade.

It's the reason Hapur is here imo. I'd just wish he had a nastiness to his game.

 

[TheDirtyH]

Kane doesn't have 4 goals because Chicago sucks.

Kane has 4 goals because Kane sucks.

Kane has four goals because he's shooting at under 4%. The Hawks devastated their roster this summer to an extent not seen since the McDavid sweepstakes. At 35 he may not be good enough to simply play with whoever on an epically bad team and outproduce expectations. That hardly means he sucks.

 

[Machinehead]

Kane has four goals because he's shooting at under 4%. The Hawks devastated their roster this summer to an extent not seen since the McDavid sweepstakes. At 35 he may not be good enough to simply play with whoever on an epically bad team and outproduce expectations. That hardly means he sucks.

 

[duhmetreE]

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you actually have to change the y-Axis to -5 to see how bad it really is

 

[DanielBrassard]

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Kane is the type of player who's offensive contributions are underrated by traditional advanced metrics. There's a reason his GF/60 bar is blue while everything else is below average. It doesn't really capture his playmaking skills or quantifies them in a proper way. you see this with other exceptional players who are similar to him.

 

[Machinehead]

Kane is the type of player who's offensive contributions are underrated by traditional advanced metrics. There's a reason his GF/60 bar is blue while everything else is below average. It doesn't really capture his playmaking skills or quantifies them in a proper way. you see this with other exceptional players who are similar to him.

Maybe so but does this team need another one of those when they already can't string two passes together on a lot of nights?

 

[DanielBrassard]

Maybe so but does this team need another one of those when they already can't string two passes together on a lot of nights?

Well Kane would certainly help in that regard. I'm not even really advocating for acquiring him necessarily, just saying that for certain types of players I don't think the metrics are 100% effective at explaining why they are successful. At the end of the day outscoring your opponent is what matters and despite the terrible defense and below average shot generation and quality Kane has done that into his mid 30's on a bad team.

 

[Machinehead]

Well Kane would certainly help in that regard. I'm not even really advocating for acquiring him necessarily, just saying that for certain types of players I don't think the metrics are 100% effective at explaining why they are successful. At the end of the day outscoring your opponent is what matters and despite the terrible defense and below average shot generation and quality Kane has done that into his mid 30's on a bad team.

All I'm saying is, for all the people that crucify Panarin, I don't wanna hear a thing if they bring in Kane and he does Panarin's stupidity times ten, because he will.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Well Kane would certainly help in that regard. I'm not even really advocating for acquiring him necessarily, just saying that for certain types of players I don't think the metrics are 100% effective at explaining why they are successful. At the end of the day outscoring your opponent is what matters and despite the terrible defense and below average shot generation and quality Kane has done that into his mid 30's on a bad team.

Kane until this year was an analytical darling.

 

[DanielBrassard]

All I'm saying is, for all the people that crucify Panarin, I don't wanna hear a thing if they bring in Kane and he does Panarin's stupidity times ten, because he will.

That's fair lol. But that's what you live with when the guy is a premier playmaker, like Panarin or Kane.

Kane until this year was an analytical darling.

Did you miss Machinehead's post? He's been anything but. In fact he's basically been in the red in terms of relative expected goals going back to 2013-14.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Kane is way better than this board thinks, the only reason I’d be opposed to getting him is if it means losing Kravtsov

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Adding Kane would be the typical short-sighted, big name Sather-esque acquisition this team does not need. And it would do damage to the future

 

[GAGLine]

And I'll move Blais for picks and call up Rydahl/Cuylle/Othmann for the playoffs.

Othmann can't play for us until his OHL season is over.

Craig Smith got waived yesterday. I assume he will clear and get sent to the AHL, as he has a 3.1 mil contract (ends this season). He has only played 17 games this year and has 4 points, but last year he had 36 points in 74 games. Last year he averaged just under 13 minutes per game at even strength and got PP2 time, but most of his scoring came at even strength.

In October of this year, he played 7 games and had 3 points. He played 3rd line minutes in 6 of those games, and only about 7 minutes in the other. In the 10 games he has played since, he has gotten less than 10 minutes 9 times and less than 9 minutes 6 times.

He has size and I think he can still produce in a 3rd line role. If he's still available at the deadline, he could be a cheap depth acquisition @ 50% cap hit.