Player Discussion Tony DeAngelo - Part II

[will1066]

Will Ferrell actually named his Office character DeAngelo Vickers in honor of Tony DeAngelo. It's true.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

Will Ferrell actually named his Office character DeAngelo Vickers in honor of Tony DeAngelo. It's true.

One of the worst characters in the history of The Office, along with:
Brian the cameraman
Nellie
Cathy
and Frank

 

[Harbour Dog]

One of the worst characters in the history of The Office, along with:
Brian the cameraman
Nellie
Cathy
and Frank

Hahahaha this is perfect. My immediate instinct was to pick fault with at least one character on the list, but I cannot.

 

[offdacrossbar]

kid reminds me of matt barnaby. hes got the yapping and the after the whistle stuff that barnaby had. hes not a true fighter but will drop em. sean avery the same but he was more talented than matt but again, same comparison. ADA is in that same mold.

this type of player, although a pita to play against, was always loved by his teammates. these guys were pests and characters on the ice and would add to the game that element that bland teams - like ours, could use for some energy or just to give a presence. push back isnt a negative if its controlled and within the rules. putting a toe over the line on occasion isnt hurting the team or whatever quinn is afraid of.

i think ADA is similar to these 2 guys. he brings that swag and attitude with him. he plays tough especially after the whistle- which is where quinn probably has his concerns, but so does 36 in many ways. Zuccarello plays nasty after the whistle, doesnt back down and is always in the middle of the scrums.

tony is a jersey kid. hes got that attitude and he can back it up with some high end talent.

rather than try to bench that out of him, help him off the ice- i think this is wayyyyy over done tbh, help him control his emotions and his mouth on the ice- again, i havent sen this as a problem yet, and help him transfer that emotion constructively rather than as a reaction or emotional outburst that could be construed as out of control or selfish immaturity.

this kid is a very good right handed, pmd who can skate and play with an edge. his defense is undersold big time too. this is the type of player you hang on to.

 

[True Blue]

And since the standard for every player is different I don't see why Quinn's relationship with ADA would have any effect on anyone else on the team and how they behaved or played.

Once again, this is either a misunderstanding or a misrepresentation of what I am saying. No one is talking about Quinn's relationship with ADA in this instance either. What I am talking about is Quinn put out a set of rules. ADA, for whatever reason, chose to either ignore them or not to do what was prescribed. This is not a relationship issue. With other younger players watching, this action (brought on about by SOLELY DeAgelo himself) put Quinn into a quandry. Does he A) allow this prodigy on ice to continue to ignore what management has demanded or B) does he hold the prodigy on ice accountable for his actions of not adhering to something that was clearly communicated to him?

If Quinn went with A, that would send a message to the other players that his demands can be overlooked. Quinn chose to go with B. Not only in a teaching moment to DeAngelo, but in an action that also was a message to the other players of "These are the rules and I expect them to be followed or you will find yourself stapled to the bench or not dressed at all". IMO, he made the right and the only choice.

Which is why I dont think it matters at all if Quinn is playing ADA because he is suddenly 100% compliant with his expectations or if is is because Quinn has lowered his expectations. And I dont think it will have any tangible effect on anyone else either.

We will need to agree to disagree on this

 

[True Blue]

kid reminds me of matt barnaby. hes got the yapping and the after the whistle stuff that barnaby had. hes not a true fighter but will drop em. sean avery the same but he was more talented than matt but again, same comparison. ADA is in that same mold.

Sorry, but in that aspect he is NOT on a level with Barnaby. Not even close. Barnaby was one of the best agitators that I have seen.

And i would doubt it's the after the whistle stuff that Quinn dislikes. He was openly content with the yapping that ADA was doing with Boston.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Sorry, but in that aspect he is NOT on a level with Barnaby. Not even close. Barnaby was one of the best agitators that I have seen.

And i would doubt it's the after the whistle stuff that Quinn dislikes. He was openly content with the yapping that ADA was doing with Boston.

"same mold"

relax bro

 

[Edge]

Funny, DeAngelo really doesn't look "thick" on the ice. He looks pretty skinny but off the ice looks solid.

At any rate I don't think he's really skilled enough to be a big star in the NHL...like top scoring style defenseman star, his shot just isn't good enough for that and you really need your shot to be a weapon as a defenseman if you're going to put up a ton of points.

But he could definitely be a very good puck moving offensive defenseman who scores quite a few points and those are valuable, so...let's hope he stays on the ice and continues to improve

I kind of go back and forth on this. At times I tend to feel the same way you do. Other times, I could see a Dan Boyle type upside. Not necessarily a guy who you automatically think of when you think of the very best defenseman in the league, but who is regularly in the top 10-15 at this peak.

 

[True Blue]

"same mold"

relax bro

Am quite relaxed. But "mold" has quite the amount of breadth to it. I do not think that DeAngelo has nearly the ability to get under people's skin the same way as a Barnaby, nor is he anywhere near as physical or willing to drop the gloves as much. I would have taken an in -prime Barnaby any day of the week.

 

[CasusBelli]

Sounds good.

He does make interesting lineup choices, but at this point, everyone we've had in my lifetime has done the same, so I've kind of just accepted it as normal. I see fans of other teams saying the same, as well.

As far as Pionk--he clearly likes the kid in terms of hustle and some other intangible elements. I can't think of any other reason why he'd play him the way he does. Still though, his usage is falling. After playing 25 minutes against Vegas, he then played 18, 20, 16, 20:30, 18, 14:30. Honestly if he wasn't playing 3 minutes per game on the PK (leads the team, crazy) then his TOI totals would actually be reasonable. If you gave Pionk like 13-15 minutes 5v5 and 1-2 minutes 5v4 I think he'd be much more effective. Pionk has skill, he's just incredibly overextended at this point.

And he just shouldn't PK. There's always been that old addage about PK being all bout will and less about skill, but Pionk proves that's not true. He's definitely willing, he just sucks at it. He runs around too much and loses positioning.

Re Pionk: I don’t think he has the conditioning to play so much over such a short time span. He has the talent and the willpower on the ice. Whether he has that willpower during the off-season — always a CK; never a Butch — will determine his future with the team.

Just my two cents.

 

[Levitate]

I kind of go back and forth on this. At times I tend to feel the same way you do. Other times, I could see a Dan Boyle type upside. Not necessarily a guy who you automatically think of when you think of the very best defenseman in the league, but who is regularly in the top 10-15 at this peak.

True, Boyle didn't exactly have a dangerous shot but did score a decent amount of goals for a defenseman. DeAngelo is good at getting his shot through, especially by faking and changing angles to open up lanes, so that helps.

 

[CasusBelli]

I kind of go back and forth on this. At times I tend to feel the same way you do. Other times, I could see a Dan Boyle type upside. Not necessarily a guy who you automatically think of when you think of the very best defenseman in the league, but who is regularly in the top 10-15 at this peak.

That’s actually a great comparison — not least because Boyle was an absolute disaster on the Panthers. Sure, playing with Lance Pitlick or Brad Ference (who?) didn’t help, but he looked like a totally different player on the Bolts. The lazy guy who couldn’t contribute offensively and was a defensive disaster became crucial to the 2004 Cup.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

The only reason why I don't see the Boyle comp. is because Boyle was more known for carrying the puck than passing it to break out... Thats part of why Boyle struggled so much here because AV didn't want him carrying it through the neutral zone. ADA is much more likely to pass it out than skate it

 

[Oak]

Big fan of Tony D.

 

[McRanger]

Once again, this is either a misunderstanding or a misrepresentation of what I am saying. No one is talking about Quinn's relationship with ADA in this instance either. What I am talking about is Quinn put out a set of rules. ADA, for whatever reason, chose to either ignore them or not to do what was prescribed. This is not a relationship issue. With other younger players watching, this action (brought on about by SOLELY DeAgelo himself) put Quinn into a quandry. Does he A) allow this prodigy on ice to continue to ignore what management has demanded or B) does he hold the prodigy on ice accountable for his actions of not adhering to something that was clearly communicated to him?

If Quinn went with A, that would send a message to the other players that his demands can be overlooked. Quinn chose to go with B. Not only in a teaching moment to DeAngelo, but in an action that also was a message to the other players of "These are the rules and I expect them to be followed or you will find yourself stapled to the bench or not dressed at all". IMO, he made the right and the only choice.

We will need to agree to disagree on this

And my point is that it is fanciful to think that coaches have the same expectations for every player and the same punishments if said players fail to meet those expectations. Quinn might say "I expect A from all of you" and I am sure he hopes to get it. But in the end the superstar, the above average starter, the role player and the scrub are all going to get treated differently if they "don't do A", especially if "A" is inconsequential to winning on the ice. Everyone involved knows this. The concept "the better you are the more shit they will put up with" is like the bedrock of sports from little league all the way to the pros.

So with that universal truth written out, how would Quinn's treatment of ADA affect anyone else? If Quinn decided that ADA was invaluable and he was to play him regardless of his behavior why would any other player think they were also entitled to preferential treatment? These circumstances do not make Quinn a hypocrite, they make him just like every other coach in the world, who all hold the priority "make money for my bosses through winning games" over "make a bunch of adults better adults".

The idea that treating high lever or veteran players differently would lead to a mutiny or breed resentment is silly when you are talking about high schoolers. Its absurd when you are talking about a hundred million dollar business.

 

[Ola]

That’s actually a great comparison — not least because Boyle was an absolute disaster on the Panthers. Sure, playing with Lance Pitlick or Brad Ference (who?) didn’t help, but he looked like a totally different player on the Bolts. The lazy guy who couldn’t contribute offensively and was a defensive disaster became crucial to the 2004 Cup.

Hockey can be so much about getting into the right environment. Boyle got into that Tampa team with Vinny L, MSL, Richards, Anderchuck, Prospal and co. Just had to do his thing. Looking at how fast Jack Hughes and co are moving the puck and going to the net for the US junior team — I wouldn’t at all be surprised if TDA one day ended up in an environment like that and started to put up really good numbers.

It’s like Reilly in Toronto. All of a sudden he supposedly is a Norris candidate. Everyone is free to have opinions on that — but if you look at his pts totals and don’t think being a part of that impact means a good 20+ pts for Reilly I think you are mistaken. We have seen the same thing with Pionk/Shatty in NY. Scoring is so much about usage and environment.

 

[Levitate]

Though Boyle was much more of a roamer than DeAngelo ever will be. It'd drive me nuts in his time with the Rangers when he'd just roam all over the ice while playing defense (as in, defending without the puck) for some reason

 

[aufheben]

DeAngelo has shot up to #46 RD on Corsica Hockey. These numbers change daily but it's still by far the highest I've seen him on there.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Though Boyle was much more of a roamer than DeAngelo ever will be. It'd drive me nuts in his time with the Rangers when he'd just roam all over the ice while playing defense (as in, defending without the puck) for some reason

I despised every second of Dan Boyle with the Rangers ...

 

[Miamipuck]

I despised every second of Dan Boyle with the Rangers ...

It meant no Stralman and the keeping and signing of Staal and Girardi. Oh well.......All 3 are about at the end of their careers regardless.

 

[haveandare]

Hahahaha this is perfect. My immediate instinct was to pick fault with at least one character on the list, but I cannot.

I love DeAngelo and parts of Nellie. Brian the cameraman was an abomination

 

[Kovalev27]

Something happen to him? Only played 11 mins.

 

[nyr2k2]

Something happen to him? Only played 11 mins.

He had a terrible turnover in the offensive zone that led to a breakaway and the Toronto goal. He also took an unnecessary tripping penalty later on. I don't know what his TOI breakdown looked like by period, but even aside from those two incidents, he just had a tough game. Just one of those nights. Hopefully he gets right back to it.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Something happen to him? Only played 11 mins.

Quinn probably didn't like that turnover

 

[Irishguy42]

He had a terrible turnover in the offensive zone that led to a breakaway and the Toronto goal. He also took an unnecessary tripping penalty later on. I don't know what his TOI breakdown looked like by period, but even aside from those two incidents, he just had a tough game. Just one of those nights. Hopefully he gets right back to it.

His TOI in the first period was ~4 minutes, and then ~5 minutes in the 2nd, then ~2 minutes in the 3rd.

He was rotating a lot with Pionk, as was the rest of the D, and being off the ice for several penalties also made things wonky. Being on the PK a lot also doesn't help his TOI.