GoAwayDanCleary
DRWCC
- Aug 6, 2012
- 10,752
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I think it's tough to make that statement so early in their careers. If they have one more season like this I'd easily rank them ahead of Fil, but Fil did have a great SC run and some solid seasons.
Tomas Tatar
- Thread starter Mister Ed
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I think it's tough to make that statement so early in their careers. If they have one more season like this I'd easily rank them ahead of Fil, but Fil did have a great SC run and some solid seasons.
ArGarBarGar
What do we want!? Unfair!
- Sep 8, 2008
- 44,074
- 11,863
Hard to compare wingers with centers.
I would like to see someone surpass Filppula at the center position, since Weiss is apparently not going to be a center.
We don't win the Cup in '07-'08 without Flip. His last few seasons in Detroit he regressed, be it injuries or his rumored dislike of Babcock, but his impact during that Cup year was huge (he basically outplayed Malkin and shut him down in the Final). If Tatar can put together a good playoff I'd be inclined to put him above Flip...IMO Gus needs to work on his game, get stronger and become a more confident, aggressive player before I can even consider it.
As I've said before, Babcock is doing Weiss a favor not playing him at center and probably extending his career. Weiss would be exposed big time back in the middle, especially in his own end.
I'd rather see him up with Pav or Sheehan, but on the whole he's better protected as a 4th line winger than being back at center where his lack of speed or size/physicality/defensive awareness would really be on display. Babcock usually knows when guys can't hack it...last year some on this board were pissed because Legwand was basically demoted to a checker. Well, this season he's been a checker who's been a healthy scratch at times for a bad Sens team...so I think most of the time Babcock has a good feel for these things.
I don't think there's anyway Weiss should be on the 4th line while Glendening is on the third. Not only has Glendening shown good stuff in centering the 4th line, but Weiss has been putting up pretty good points, far more than Glendening. And I feel like the 4th line's identity with Andersson centering just isn't as good.
Glendening is winning a really high number of faceoffs. Andersson, while still above 50%, is barely there.
I think Weiss has only taken like 8 draws all year, so we can stop calling him a center.
All the more reason to switch Glendening and Andersson. Sheahan centers the third line, Glendening the fourth.
Although Tats had "only" 2 assists tonight, I think he was one of the best players on the ice, creating so many great chances and made that tying goal happen.
Spectacular game!
Spectacular game!
BamaWing
Registered User
I think Tatar has been the best and most consistent Red Wings player all season. Howard would be #1 if it weren't for his injuries. Tatar has consistently been a threat each and every game. He's rarely had a night off.
detredWINgs
Registered User
You're using things like strength and aggressiveness as a reason why Nyquist hasn't surpassed Flip in your eyes? Ironic.
I'd probably take Nyquist and Tatar over Filppula today because of their ability to produce with anyone, anywhere, especially Tatar.
obey86
Registered User
- Jun 9, 2009
- 8,013
- 1,274
Agreed. He's been so good this year and I love his aggressiveness
I've been the biggest Nyquist fan going on about 5-6 years now and I think Tatar has passed Nyquist as a player.
detredWINgs
Registered User
I probably like Tatar a bit more as a player because of his infectious personality but I'm not sure I'm ready to say Tatar has "passed" Nyquist. Then again, I thought they were a lot closer than people were saying at the beginning of the year, so I find the idea of one trumping the other, so to speak, to be a little simplistic.
In my opinion, if Tatar has "passed" Nyquist, it isn't for skill or IQ but because of circumstance. I don't think you can underestimate how much pressure Nyquist had placed on his shoulders to start the year. He set the bar sky high for himself. His name was being mentioned in the same breath as perennial 30+ goal scorers like Ovechkin and Pavelski. He was/is also seen as a could-be all-around player - a winger in the mold of Zetterberg, albeit on a tier below. Those kinds of implied parallels are going to change the game for a player and I think it happened really fast for Nyquist - faster than most. He came into the league, dominated it, and when people looked at this age and resume, the general consensus seemed to be "oh, he's ready to be a key player." A lot of people overlooked the fact that, despite his age, he was very green in terms of NHL culture. And he still is pretty green, IMO, but to start the season, he was catapulted into the Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Franzen group of veterans instead of the Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco group of "lets see what else they can give us" kids.
With Tatar, everyone was caught up in the perceived deficiencies of his game. Can he be defensively responsible enough? Can he be consistent enough? What happens when he goes up against top pairings? Is he too small? The guy had a lot more people that he needed to prove wrong than he needed to prove right, and I think that is a perfect mental scenario for a guy like Tatar to enter into. And while I actually think his mental fortitude is better than Nyquist's - Tatar seems to have no self-doubt while Nyquist does seem to harbor a bit - I don't think that you can really say one has passed the other until Tatar enters a new season with Nyquist-like expectations and doesn't miss a beat.
Cyborg Yzerberg
Registered User
Unless Larkin or Mantha have anything to say about it, Tatar will be the best player on the Red Wings sooner than later.
AndrewD
Registered User
Tatar is on track to have breakout year
At the end of last season, Detroit Red Wings’ Coach Babcock called upon Tomas Tatar to maximize on his scoring chances and play better without the puck. Judging by his numbers at the half-way mark, Tatar heeded his coach’s advice...
http://redwingregister.blogspot.ca/2015/03/rapid-red-wing-review-tatar-is-on-track.html
At the end of last season, Detroit Red Wings’ Coach Babcock called upon Tomas Tatar to maximize on his scoring chances and play better without the puck. Judging by his numbers at the half-way mark, Tatar heeded his coach’s advice...
http://redwingregister.blogspot.ca/2015/03/rapid-red-wing-review-tatar-is-on-track.html
Laser Rayzor
Cautiously Optimistic
Like most goal scorers he is still streaky (4 goals in last 19 games after going on a tear), he's now on pace for 31 goals (he was on pace for 37 at one point IIRC). That being said he's been dynamite this year, he's on track to be a 30g 30a guy for us (possibly more if he goes on another hot streak).
I'm still curious to see how he does in the playoffs, IMO he seems like a guy who will thrive off of the extra intensity and I wouldn't be surprised for him to earn a "playoff beast" title over the course of his career.
If he can roll into the playoffs this year on a hot streak and a lot of confidence it could be huge for the team.
I'm still curious to see how he does in the playoffs, IMO he seems like a guy who will thrive off of the extra intensity and I wouldn't be surprised for him to earn a "playoff beast" title over the course of his career.
If he can roll into the playoffs this year on a hot streak and a lot of confidence it could be huge for the team.
Yeah Tatar is due for another hot streak. He's been getting chances lately, wouldn't be surprised if he broke through with a couple goals tonight.
TheOctopusKid
Registered User
- Sep 24, 2010
- 1,479
- 1,744
I am convinced that what we are seeing in raw stats - particularly in scoring versus what the expectation is from Babs are two entirely different things.
Every player on the Wings roster is expected to be defensively responsible and spatially aware, the "away from the puck" that he continually refers to. Despite these kids showing strong offensive numbers, if they don't do pursue the puck, positioning themselves to find space on the offensive side of the ice, and develop the awareness to hustle to close down passing lanes and position themselves in anticipation of where the play is moving, they are dead to Babs.
That's why he favored so many pedestrian players (a la Cleary, Andersson, Lashoff, Ericsson, etc.) despite them not having any statistical contribution, they do the "right" thing. This comes at the expense of players that appear to be more skilled (Smith, Weiss, any number of our prospects) because they haven't learned how to do the small things well despite showing flashes of statistical relevance and skill.
Smith seems to have the upside to quarterback the PP, however he often times shoots at the wrong time where he has no backside support and on the oft chance the shot is blocked, it causes a break the other way. It's chasing offense at the expense of exposing poor positioning. While a player who is more conservative like Lashoff, wouldn't even attempt something like that and always make the safe play but brings nothing else to the table.
How this pertains to Tatar, he threw up great offensive numbers and showed tremendous amount of effort, although I think where he taken this to a whole new level is how responsible of a player he is. He seems to have gained a real element of patience to his game, and no longer gets run out of the play and eventually losing the puck while trailing the play back into our zone because he has to play catch up. He isn't trying to "win" the game by himself, but lets the play come to him and that's impressive maturity in the last year. Scoring aside, because I knew he could do that, it's his approach that I think has improved by leaps and bounds. And I think that is what has directly correlated to his increase in ice time and PP time because he's proven to Babs that he can play without the puck and make good decisions, not just rely on his ability to score.
Every player on the Wings roster is expected to be defensively responsible and spatially aware, the "away from the puck" that he continually refers to. Despite these kids showing strong offensive numbers, if they don't do pursue the puck, positioning themselves to find space on the offensive side of the ice, and develop the awareness to hustle to close down passing lanes and position themselves in anticipation of where the play is moving, they are dead to Babs.
That's why he favored so many pedestrian players (a la Cleary, Andersson, Lashoff, Ericsson, etc.) despite them not having any statistical contribution, they do the "right" thing. This comes at the expense of players that appear to be more skilled (Smith, Weiss, any number of our prospects) because they haven't learned how to do the small things well despite showing flashes of statistical relevance and skill.
Smith seems to have the upside to quarterback the PP, however he often times shoots at the wrong time where he has no backside support and on the oft chance the shot is blocked, it causes a break the other way. It's chasing offense at the expense of exposing poor positioning. While a player who is more conservative like Lashoff, wouldn't even attempt something like that and always make the safe play but brings nothing else to the table.
How this pertains to Tatar, he threw up great offensive numbers and showed tremendous amount of effort, although I think where he taken this to a whole new level is how responsible of a player he is. He seems to have gained a real element of patience to his game, and no longer gets run out of the play and eventually losing the puck while trailing the play back into our zone because he has to play catch up. He isn't trying to "win" the game by himself, but lets the play come to him and that's impressive maturity in the last year. Scoring aside, because I knew he could do that, it's his approach that I think has improved by leaps and bounds. And I think that is what has directly correlated to his increase in ice time and PP time because he's proven to Babs that he can play without the puck and make good decisions, not just rely on his ability to score.
Seconded. The defenseive gap isn't nearly as big as it was and was largely the only thing setting them apart.
ricky0034
Registered User
- Jun 8, 2010
- 15,473
- 7,941
saying Tatar has "passed" Nyquist is really reading way too much into the present
maybe he's been slightly better this year but Nyquist has a long history of being the better player,the gap between Nyquist and Tatar last year was MUCH bigger than any gap between Tatar and Nyquist this year etc
he may be having a better season,but there's WAY too much history there to so easily say that he's become the better player
maybe he's been slightly better this year but Nyquist has a long history of being the better player,the gap between Nyquist and Tatar last year was MUCH bigger than any gap between Tatar and Nyquist this year etc
he may be having a better season,but there's WAY too much history there to so easily say that he's become the better player
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