Confirmed with Link: Toffoli to CGY for Emil Heineman, Tyler Pitlick + Picks (Part 2)

[The Gr8 Dane]

I think the main reason ppl still cry about serg isint even having serg himself but more-so the fact we traded our 9th overall pretty valuable asset .( especially for us considering our LD's in the org at the time).

Could have gotten way better for him, IMO serg's value only went up after we picked him at 9 so its dissapointing to have only gotten what we got for him

 

[Andy]

That’s not saying much and I’m honestly not even sure about that. He makes a lot of mistakes and is extremely sheltered in Tampa.

Yah, the third most used D-man in Tampa is extremely sheltered...LOL.

The bitterness of some is hilarious.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Yah, the third most used D-man in Tampa is extremely sheltered...LOL.

The bitterness of some is hilarious.

Drouin is still young - this is the year he finally figures it out!! next to Wright!!!

**inhales copium**

 

[Andy]

Drouin is still young - this is the year he finally figures it out!! next to Wright!!!

**inhales copium**

It's even more hilarious because I just checked and Sergachev was the second most used D-man this season....but yeah, he's sheltered.

This f***ing board.

Second in total ice time.
Second in time on the PP
Second in Even strength time
Third on the PK.
Second in number of shifts per game.

But he's sheltered.

Oh, and he's f***ing 23 years old. What a god awful trade that was (and I admit, I thought it was a good trade at the time).

 

[Kriss E]

I think the main reason ppl still cry about serg isint even having serg himself but more-so the fact we traded our 9th overall pretty valuable asset .( especially for us considering our LD's in the org at the time).

Could have gotten way better for him, IMO serg's value only went up after we picked him at 9 so its dissapointing to have only gotten what we got for him

I think the value at the time was fine. We get a promising youngster in return, a superstar in the junior days, who hadn't reached maturity at the NHL level yet.
The problem was the direction and vision. It made no sense to do this. If he would have been an addition to the roster, fine, but what he ended up being was a replacement for Radulov, paying our best prospect for it, and we also lost Markov and failed to replace him.
So basically we worsened and traded our best prospect, it made no sense at all.

 

[Andy]

I think the value at the time was fine. We get a promising youngster in return, a superstar in the junior days, who hadn't reached maturity at the NHL level yet.
The problem was the direction and vision. It made no sense to do this. If he would have been an addition to the roster, fine, but what he ended up being was a replacement for Radulov, paying our best prospect for it, and we also lost Markov and failed to replace him.
So basically we worsened and traded our best prospect, it made no sense at all.

The worse part is that we threw him in the number one centre role. It was such a disaster.

 

[Kriss E]

The worse part is that we threw him in the number one centre role. It was such a disaster.

Legit, I don't understand how those meetings went about. Would love to have been a fly on the wall there. How in the hell did they reach that decision.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Rocks and Molson Beer for brains thats probably how they reached the decision to get Drouin to try to be our 1st line C.
Seriously its such a fefan/MonOncleRejean type of move

 

[Tutu to]

Yah, the third most used D-man in Tampa is extremely sheltered...LOL.

The bitterness of some is hilarious.

I’m not saying he’s bad or that I wouldn’t take him back just that he’s overrated. Every time I watch him he makes tons of mistakes. Offensively he’s good but not elite.

I don’t see him as a top pairing guy right now. In the future? Maybe.

 

[Ryan O'Byrne]

can we keep this only for players or picks involved in the trade , because really the rest isn’t relevant to the conversation here .

 

[LaP]

I think the value at the time was fine. We get a promising youngster in return, a superstar in the junior days, who hadn't reached maturity at the NHL level yet.
The problem was the direction and vision. It made no sense to do this. If he would have been an addition to the roster, fine, but what he ended up being was a replacement for Radulov, paying our best prospect for it, and we also lost Markov and failed to replace him.
So basically we worsened and traded our best prospect, it made no sense at all.

There's more to the trade than that though. TB was about to lose a player to the expansion draft. They had to trade someone or lose someone for nothing. We had protection slots to spare. I mean we protected Jordie Benn for god sake. Sergachev did not need to be protected.

The trade really should be considered as :

Sergachev + cond 2nd + protection slot
For
Drouin

And when you look at the trade that way it's not great value even if both players reach their potential. With protection slots to spare and with other teams not having enough (Anaheim, TB, ...) we were in a position of strength and we really should have improved the team. Even if Drouin becomes a 25 goals 70 points smallish winger not great defensively it's still not a great deal considering the position of strength we were in.

The cond 2nd should have come our way with Sergachev playing pro not the other way around. I'd argue it should have been a cond 1st considering the position TB was in. Canes got Teravainen for getting Chicago out of trouble. We did not ask TB anything to get them out of trouble. Yes Drouin was a 3rd overall but he was 22 back then (same age as JK) and was showing sign of not reaching his potential with big shortcomings defensively and problems outside the ice. Sergachev was one of the best D prospect not in the NHL.

 

[McGees]

I think the main reason ppl still cry about serg isint even having serg himself but more-so the fact we traded our 9th overall pretty valuable asset .( especially for us considering our LD's in the org at the time).

Could have gotten way better for him, IMO serg's value only went up after we picked him at 9 so its dissapointing to have only gotten what we got for him

The main reason people cry is that Drouin has been for the majority of his playing time here(which has dramatically reduced the last 2 years) been a disappointment here.

Sergachev has been good, not great, not bad but our return is what matters the most.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

I think the value at the time was fine. We get a promising youngster in return, a superstar in the junior days, who hadn't reached maturity at the NHL level yet.
The problem was the direction and vision. It made no sense to do this. If he would have been an addition to the roster, fine, but what he ended up being was a replacement for Radulov, paying our best prospect for it, and we also lost Markov and failed to replace him.
So basically we worsened and traded our best prospect, it made no sense at all.

It wasn't good value.

Drouin had already been in the league for a while and was basically what he was.

Tampa was also in an extremely tough spot with the expansion draft.

They either had to expose him or ship him out on the cheap.

We paid way too high of a price there. Drouin could have been had for a draft pick but instead we shipped out our best propect since Subban.

That's just the value aspect. Then there's the player, who despite being young had a deeply flawed game and had a fairly disappointing first few seasons in the league. He's not someone we should have been targeting.

The deal was extremely poor at the time and only got worse in hindsight as Drouin's play got even worse from where it was.

 

[Kriss E]

There's more to the trade than that though. TB was about to lose a player to the expansion draft. They had to trade someone or lose someone for nothing. We had protection slots to spare. I mean we protected Jordie Benn for god sake. Sergachev did not need to be protected.

The trade really should be considered as :

Sergachev + cond 2nd + protection slot
For
Drouin

And when you look at the trade that way it's not great value even if both players reach their potential. With protection slots to spare and with other teams not having enough (Anaheim, TB, ...) we were in a position of strength and we really should have improved the team. Even if Drouin becomes a 25 goals 70 points smallish winger not great defensively it's still not a great deal considering the position of strength we were in.

The cond 2nd should have come our way with Sergachev playing pro not the other way around. I'd argue it should have been a cond 1st considering the position TB was in. Canes got Teravainen for getting Chicago out of trouble. We did not ask TB anything to get them out of trouble. Yes Drouin was a 3rd overall but he was 22 back then (same age as JK) and was showing sign of not reaching his potential with big shortcomings defensively and problems outside the ice. Sergachev was one of the best D prospect not in the NHL.

Meh, I think that's a bit of a reach. At the time, we were still getting another top 6 winger with star power potential. Adding him to the team with Radulov+Markov made sense, even at a premium price tag. We know Drouin didn't progress but at the time, he still had that potential too.

 

[Kriss E]

It wasn't good value.

Drouin had already been in the league for a while and was basically what he was.

Tampa was also in an extremely tough spot with the expansion draft.

They either had to expose him or ship him out on the cheap.

We paid way too high of a price there. Drouin could have been had for a draft pick but instead we shipped out our best propect since Subban.

That's just the value aspect. Then there's the player, who despite being young had a deeply flawed game and had a fairly disappointing first few seasons in the league. He's not someone we should have been targeting.

The deal was extremely poor at the time and only got worse in hindsight as Drouin's play got even worse from where it was.

You don't know if any, or how many, team was also in the asking for Drouin. You can't dictate his value without knowing the demand. Basically rule of economic.
I'm sure we weren't the only team looking at Drouin. He had a decent rookie year, a difficult sophomore but he should promise in the POs putting up 14pts in 19gp after less than 100 games of NHL experience. He comes back for his third season to break the 20G mark and puts up 53pts, which showed an interesting progression.

I don't think your assessment of Drouin in 2016 is adequate or fair.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

You don't know if any, or how many, team was also in the asking for Drouin. You can't dictate his value without knowing the demand. Basically rule of economic.
I'm sure we weren't the only team looking at Drouin. He had a decent rookie year, a difficult sophomore but he should promise in the POs putting up 14pts in 19gp after less than 100 games of NHL experience. He comes back for his third season to break the 20G mark and puts up 53pts, which showed an interesting progression.

I don't think your assessment of Drouin in 2016 is adequate or fair.

I do think it's fair.

If it wasn't fair Tampa wouldn't have been on the verge of exposing him in the expansion draft. Protecting him would have been a no brainer.

We overpaid because Bergevin really hates offensive minded dmen and undervalued Sergachev as a result and assumed that he could turn an inconsistent defensive liability on the wing to a top line center who had the added bonus of being French.

Bergevin thought he nailed two birds with one stone there and as was widely predicted on these very boards at the time, it blew up in his face immediately.

To think that Bergevin's attempts to solve the center issue were to deal a first round pick and Sergachev for Drouin and Dvorak lol

 

[BLONG7]

Sergachev/Drouin was nothing short of highway robbery for TB. total fleece job by Yzerman.
Saying JD has been a disappointment, is a huge under statement...............

 

[rahad]

I think the value at the time was fine. We get a promising youngster in return, a superstar in the junior days, who hadn't reached maturity at the NHL level yet.
The problem was the direction and vision. It made no sense to do this. If he would have been an addition to the roster, fine, but what he ended up being was a replacement for Radulov, paying our best prospect for it, and we also lost Markov and failed to replace him.
So basically we worsened and traded our best prospect, it made no sense at all.

Did you already forget what he did in the 2016 season in Tampa Bay??? How on earth is his value the same with Sergachev (top 10 pick)???

Bolts suspend Drouin for not reporting for game

The Lightning have suspended Jonathan Drouin after he refused to report for an AHL game, but his agent said he was trying to avoid an injury that would derail a potential trade.

www.espn.com

 

[dcyhabs]

I’m not saying he’s bad or that I wouldn’t take him back just that he’s overrated. Every time I watch him he makes tons of mistakes. Offensively he’s good but not elite.

I don’t see him as a top pairing guy right now. In the future? Maybe.

Hmm, second to third most used guy on a team that has won how many series in a row, but he's not top pairing or elite. "Elite" can have different thresholds but if he is clearly top 2 or at least top 3 on a top team he's either on the top pairing or anchoring the second pairing on most teams.

It wouldn't have been so bad if they hadn't set up Drouin to fail, the guy cannot play center and they shouldn't have kept trying. Of course it's pretty nuts to trade for a winger if you don't have a center.

 

[AyyoCully]

Since when was this the Drouin/Sergachev trade thread?

 

[bcv]

Since when was this the Drouin/Sergachev trade thread?

Most threads turns into Drouin bashing threads

 

[OldCraig71]

Legit, I don't understand how those meetings went about. Would love to have been a fly on the wall there. How in the hell did they reach that decision.

It was a PR move that blew up Bergevin's face.

 

[Kriss E]

Did you already forget what he did in the 2016 season in Tampa Bay??? How on earth is his value the same with Sergachev (top 10 pick)???

Bolts suspend Drouin for not reporting for game

The Lightning have suspended Jonathan Drouin after he refused to report for an AHL game, but his agent said he was trying to avoid an injury that would derail a potential trade.

www.espn.com

No I didn't, mentioned it in a following post. His refusal to report down and ask for a trade is the reason he became available. It doesn't void him of all his value and clearly he still had some.
Yes we paid a high price but as I explained, he was still a 3rd OV prospect with a very high ceiling as he was a superstar in Juniors. Despite his attitude issues, he still produced very well in the Playoffs, and he followed that up by having a great 3rd season cracking the 20g/50pts+ barrier.
So ya, there were issues, but he shown enough for teams to be willing to gamble on him. I'm sure we were not the only team inquiring about him, Bergevin probably paid a higher price to get him.
All in all, it was not a terrible swap of value. We are not talking Niinima for Ribeiro here.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

It's even more hilarious because I just checked and Sergachev was the second most used D-man this season....but yeah, he's sheltered.

This f***ing board.

Second in total ice time.
Second in time on the PP
Second in Even strength time
Third on the PK.
Second in number of shifts per game.

But he's sheltered.

Oh, and he's f***ing 23 years old. What a god awful trade that was (and I admit, I thought it was a good trade at the time).

Finally someone that did his research , people thinks Sergachev is like just a tourist during Tampa cups.

Dude is a stud. He's a great d-man with Hedman and Mcdonagh on his side. They fleeced so hard in that trade.

But some posters here knew that day 1 that trade was a disaster like the Subban one.

As for Toffoli I think we got a good return

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Finally someone that did his research , people thinks Sergachev is like just a tourist during Tampa cups.

Dude is a stud. He's a great d-man with Hedman and Mcdonagh on his side. They fleeced so hard in that trade.

But some posters here knew that day 1 that trade was a disaster like the Subban one.

As for Toffoli I think we got a good return

Frankly I think Toffoli is one of the more overrated players in the league. I would suggest that a growing number of Flames fans would tend to agree with that assessment. I agree that we received excellent value for a player that is at best, a supportive player.