Todd McLellan and the Reverse Sweep Narrative

[Brownie to Pancakes]

Being hired midseason after a firing comes with a whole different genre of skepticism though let's be fair

 

[King'sPawn]

Being hired midseason after a firing comes with a whole different genre of skepticism though let's be fair

True, that's a fair point, but that wasn't the issue people had with Sutter. They were upset that they replaced a defensive minded coach who couldn't generate offense with another defensive coach who didn't emphasize offense.

That was the biggest gripe.

 

[Buddy The Elf]

The reverse sweep is on the players. The same players that were successful with him as a coach leading up to that moment are the same players that mentally collapsed. Those same players did that under other coaches. Those same players went to other teams and weren't successful either.

If you go back to 2011/12 when Sutter was hired, I was really frustrated with that decision. I was an optimist and drank Dean's Kool-Aid up until that point. The Kings had a scoring problem. From my memory, most of the post 2005 lockout Cup winners were top 10 in goal scoring. The Kings hired a coach that was known for a stagnant defensive style of play that I thought was not the answer. I was completely wrong. He was the right coach at the right time for the right group of players.

I'm not a huge TM guy but he has the team playing as good as they have since they won their last Cup. I scratch my head at some of his decision making but you can't argue with results. Time will tell if he's the right coach at the right time for these players but I've thoroughly enjoyed the past two seasons. It's been far better than most of the late 90's and 2000's. The Kings are scoring goals like they've never done in the past and are exciting to watch. What more can you ask for?

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

The reverse sweep is on the players. The same players that were successful with him as a coach leading up to that moment are the same players that mentally collapsed. Those same players did that under other coaches. Those same players went to other teams and weren't successful either.

If you go back to 2011/12 when Sutter was hired, I was really frustrated with that decision. I was an optimist and drank Dean's Kool-Aid up until that point. The Kings had a scoring problem. From my memory, most of the post 2005 lockout Cup winners were top 10 in goal scoring. The Kings hired a coach that was known for a stagnant defensive style of play that I thought was not the answer. I was completely wrong. He was the right coach at the right time for the right group of players.

I'm not a huge TM guy but he has the team playing as good as they have since they won their last Cup. I scratch my head at some of his decision making but you can't argue with results. Time will tell if he's the right coach at the right time for these players but I've thoroughly enjoyed the past two seasons. It's been far better than most of the late 90's and 2000's. The Kings are scoring goals like they've never done in the past and are exciting to watch. What more can you ask for?

Great post.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The reverse sweep is on the players. The same players that were successful with him as a coach leading up to that moment are the same players that mentally collapsed. Those same players did that under other coaches. Those same players went to other teams and weren't successful either.

So what about the other teams this has happened on?

It's hardly isolated to 'the reverse sweep'. That's his keystone moment because while that one was particularly egregious the choking reputation has followed him from the first year he became a head coach, as have the same criticisms re: adjustments deep in series and game management.

 

[BigKing]

The reverse sweep is on the players. The same players that were successful with him as a coach leading up to that moment are the same players that mentally collapsed. Those same players did that under other coaches. Those same players went to other teams and weren't successful either.

If you go back to 2011/12 when Sutter was hired, I was really frustrated with that decision. I was an optimist and drank Dean's Kool-Aid up until that point. The Kings had a scoring problem. From my memory, most of the post 2005 lockout Cup winners were top 10 in goal scoring. The Kings hired a coach that was known for a stagnant defensive style of play that I thought was not the answer. I was completely wrong. He was the right coach at the right time for the right group of players.

I'm not a huge TM guy but he has the team playing as good as they have since they won their last Cup. I scratch my head at some of his decision making but you can't argue with results. Time will tell if he's the right coach at the right time for these players but I've thoroughly enjoyed the past two seasons. It's been far better than most of the late 90's and 2000's. The Kings are scoring goals like they've never done in the past and are exciting to watch. What more can you ask for?

Thornton, Marleau, Pavelski, Burns, Hertl, Vlasic and Couture all went to the SCF immediately after T-Mac was canned so they actually didn't have to go to other teams to not be successful: they made the SCF as San Jose Sharks once they were unshackled from Mr. Regular Season.

Also, the major San Jose choking started in Todd's first season as they put up 117 points and lost to the 8 seed Ducks in the first round. They had a 107 and 108 point team before that and couldn't get out of the second round but Todd did those seasons one better. To his credit, he coached them to the WCF the next two seasons but it isn't pretty after that. The topper is the insane Game 5 meltdown against the Ducks when he was coaching Edmonton and then you have him lose two clinching games in a row last year.

The reputation is earned. My favorite player ever is Keith Tkachuk. I can point to some good playoffs for him but the fact is he barely ever made it out of the first round and his numbers dipped. I hate that he has that reputation but I stopped trying to defend against it because it is what it is. Hopefully T-Mac can change the narrative as coach of the Kings but, until then, the stink is all over him.

 

[KINGS17]

Thornton, Marleau, Pavelski, Burns, Hertl, Vlasic and Couture all went to the SCF immediately after T-Mac was canned so they actually didn't have to go to other teams to not be successful: they made the SCF as San Jose Sharks once they were unshackled from Mr. Regular Season.

Also, the major San Jose choking started in Todd's first season as they put up 117 points and lost to the 8 seed Ducks in the first round. They had a 107 and 108 point team before that and couldn't get out of the second round but Todd did those seasons one better. To his credit, he coached them to the WCF the next two seasons but it isn't pretty after that. The topper is the insane Game 5 meltdown against the Ducks when he was coaching Edmonton and then you have him lose two clinching games in a row last year.

The reputation is earned. My favorite player ever is Keith Tkachuk. I can point to some good playoffs for him but the fact is he barely ever made it out of the first round and his numbers dipped. I hate that he has that reputation but I stopped trying to defend against it because it is what it is. Hopefully T-Mac can change the narrative as coach of the Kings but, until then, the stink is all over him.

Maybe McLellan can do it?

 

[Buddy The Elf]

So what about the other teams this has happened on?

It's hardly isolated to 'the reverse sweep'. That's his keystone moment because while that one was particularly egregious the choking reputation has followed him from the first year he became a head coach, as have the same criticisms re: adjustments deep in series and game management.

I take issue with the comment that a first year head coach can choke. That said, I'm fine with criticism and not an advocate of his. All I'm saying is you're a loser until you're a winner and most players/ coaches identify with the former. Darryl Sutter was in Todd's shoes when he was hired.

Thornton, Marleau, Pavelski, Burns, Hertl, Vlasic and Couture all went to the SCF immediately after T-Mac was canned so they actually didn't have to go to other teams to not be successful: they made the SCF as San Jose Sharks once they were unshackled from Mr. Regular Season.

Also, the major San Jose choking started in Todd's first season as they put up 117 points and lost to the 8 seed Ducks in the first round. They had a 107 and 108 point team before that and couldn't get out of the second round but Todd did those seasons one better. To his credit, he coached them to the WCF the next two seasons but it isn't pretty after that. The topper is the insane Game 5 meltdown against the Ducks when he was coaching Edmonton and then you have him lose two clinching games in a row last year.

The reputation is earned. My favorite player ever is Keith Tkachuk. I can point to some good playoffs for him but the fact is he barely ever made it out of the first round and his numbers dipped. I hate that he has that reputation but I stopped trying to defend against it because it is what it is. Hopefully T-Mac can change the narrative as coach of the Kings but, until then, the stink is all over him.

I'm totally fine with the criticism of Todd. And yeah, the Sharks were losers before and after him. My comment was just about indifference to blaming an individual for the failure of an entire team and that it can be overcome even if it were. I'm willing to bet that there would be people that will say they the kings won in spite of Todd if that day should come. I'm just here for the ride!

My opinion on the premise of this thread remains that the Sharks players were the reason they lost 4 straight games to the kings in 2014.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

I'm willing to bet that there would be people that will say they the kings won in spite of Todd if that day should come.

Sucker bet!

 

[Surf Nutz]

Ultimately the coach is the ships captain and has to make the right decision with the crew he has.
But all these viewpoints are valid in their own way.
It is is amazing how losing one guy, especially one critical guy or multiple guys can be like losing in jenga.
It is also what made the Kings series against Edmonton last year such a valiant effort.

 

[The Butcher]

I think this narrative of TM being this famous, playoff loser is extremely overblown.

This is where you are completely blinded by this troll crusade of yours. His record and decisions have completely had an impact on what has happened to all those teams he's coached. All those EPIC collapses year after year, to deny it is silly. I'm pretty happy with how things are going right now and am cautiously optimistic that coach has learned from mistakes and can keep these guys buzzing for a run. But history shows us there is cause for some concern here.

I really think TM has a golden opportunity to blow away all these criticisms in the coming weeks and months. For me, it won't be about losing in any particular round but more about how this team plays it's final games of it's season. No collapses, no mind boggling benchings or deployments that defy all metrics and eye tests, the ability to calm his team down, no let downs. It's time to show us all why he's the highest paid coach in the league.