Player Discussion Tocchet What Is/How He Doing?

[RobertKron]

I've noticed in the GDT's that the Canucks D usually takes a lot of flack..Mostly its deserved ...They are the last line of defence, and are left holding the bag...This was exacerbated by the hideous goaltending in the first 2/3 of the season, where the goalies were conceding clean shots, and couldn't make a save.

The seed of a lot of these breakdowns/mistakes usually occur up ice (the forwards)....leading to odd man rushes/poor coverage, which in turn make the beleaguered D look like donkeys...Tocchet took notice..

"Bad habits persist throughout the lineup, Tocchet said, like guys spinning away from checks instead of trying to go through their opponents, and until the team learns how to “embrace the pain,” little will change." The Province.


Maybe this is why a lot of coaches are loathe to publicly criticize their D men...?...Unless you're getting a complete buy in..There will be D men hung out to dry.

That's a weird takeaway from that quote. Finishing your check instead of turning to follow the play leaves your D more hung out to dry, not less.

Also, that's like the single most generic hockey coach thing to say of all time. Trying to read some kind of mastermind vision out of "we need them to sacrifice the body and finish their checks" is quite a reach. I'm looking forward to the dissertation on how Tocchet is working to revolutionize the team's approach to nutrition and probiotics because he said it was "gut-check time."

 

[StickShift]

I am going to make the observation that the team seems to be having much more fun the last few weeks. Maybe it’s Tocchet. Maybe it’s the change in locker room chemistry since Horvat left.

Either way—for all the fun times and love that Boudreau got—the players and team seem to be a lot happier and playing better since Tocchet got here.

 

[Diversification]

I understand the sentiment that this time of year is garbage time. Contenders are taking it easy on us, fringe NHLers are trying to make the case for their next contract, etc. All of that is true.

And yet, maybe it's also true that there is something else going on at the same time? This win streak has happened because our best players - EP, QH, AK and JTM - have basically willed it into existence on the backs of improved goaltending from Silovs and Demko. Also improved is our PK, which has been historically bad this season. But given the large sample size of general awfulness (~55 games), it probably can't be entirely explained away by regression.

Yeah, it sucks that our chances of landing Bedard and Fantilli are negligible. And it's true that our record in garbage time will not be repeated in the first half of the season. But I can't help but feel (and it's just that, a feeling) that EP and QH embracing a leadership role and setting the pace for the rest of team, that Demko's potential return to form, Silov's emergence, a rejuvenated AHL team that can supply competent call ups like Wolanin, Juulsen, PDG and Pederson and perhaps a PK that appears to be course correcting, that all of it in its totality bodes well for a team that's more competitive next season.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

I think the team has done better under Tocchet (not just in wins/losses, which I attribute more to the team finally getting quality goaltending) - but their PK has improved to my eye test, and they generally seem a bit more structurally sound and hard to play against.

But I’ll reserve judgement until the fall. The Canucks surged under Boudreau last year and played good hockey under him. I hope this isn’t a flash in the pan, but rather a sign the team can be good going forward, especially if we add quality pieces via draft, free agency and trade in the off season.

 

[Josepho]

I don't think there's enough sample size to draw conclusions here, but I was curious about the difference between Tocchet and Boudreau considering score effects, so here they are if anyone cares enough to see. NST is being a bit glitchy with the stats loading so please correct me if you're adamant that there's an error.

Team Stats after January 23rd: Team Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick
Team Stats before January 23rd: Team Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

While Tied, All Strengths
Boudreau - 34.65 SA/60 (28th)
Tocchet - 26.61 SA/60 (4th)
Boudreau - 3.22 xGA/60 (24th)
Tocchet - 2.19 xGA/60 (3rd)
Boudreau - 30.92 SCA/60 (20th)
Tocchet - 23.07 SCA/60 (3rd)

Within One, All Strengths
Boudreau - 33.18 SA/60 (26th)
Tocchet - 26.97 SA/60 (3rd)
Boudreau - 3.28 xGA/60 (T-24th)
Tocchet - 2.73 xGA/60 (T-7th)
Boudreau - 31.33 SCA/60 (22nd)
Tocchet - 26.31 SCA/60 (4th)

Again, we need more sample size, but basically everything (offensive metrics too) points to Tocchet being an upgrade. And yeah, goaltending continues to be unquestionably the biggest issue with this team.

Following up on this with a larger sample size, it has predictably gone down a bit but the numbers are still better than they were with Boudreau.

While Tied, All Strengths
Boudreau - 34.65 SA/60 (28th)
Tocchet - 28.57 SA/60 (5th)
Boudreau - 3.22 xGA/60 (24th)
Tocchet - 3.01 xGA/60 (13th)
Boudreau - 30.92 SCA/60 (20th)
Tocchet - 28.17 SCA/60 (8th)

Within One, All Strengths
Boudreau - 33.18 SA/60 (26th)
Tocchet - 29.6 SA/60 (9th)
Boudreau - 3.28 xGA/60 (T-24th)
Tocchet - 2.67 xGA/60 (6th)
Boudreau - 31.33 SCA/60 (22nd)
Tocchet - 27.57 SCA/60 (9th)

 

[Josepho]

I understand the sentiment that this time of year is garbage time. Contenders are taking it easy on us, fringe NHLers are trying to make the case for their next contract, etc. All of that is true.

And yet, maybe it's also true that there is something else going on at the same time? This win streak has happened because our best players - EP, QH, AK and JTM - have basically willed it into existence on the backs of improved goaltending from Silovs and Demko. Also improved is our PK, which has been historically bad this season. But given the large sample size of general awfulness (~55 games), it probably can't be entirely explained away by regression.

Yeah, it sucks that our chances of landing Bedard and Fantilli are negligible. And it's true that our record in garbage time will not be repeated in the first half of the season. But I can't help but feel (and it's just that, a feeling) that EP and QH embracing a leadership role and setting the pace for the rest of team, that Demko's potential return to form, Silov's emergence, a rejuvenated AHL team that can supply competent call ups like Wolanin, Juulsen, PDG and Pederson and perhaps a PK that appears to be course correcting, that all of it in its totality bodes well for a team that's more competitive next season.

I think the extent of "meaningless" games is generally pretty overblown. The majority of teams are still fighting hard for seeding (like Dallas and Toronto) and there are still guys trying to get bonuses or whatever, and the other team's starting goalie still gets played the majority of the time.

There's definitely a few cases where other teams might rest their guys more, but the idea that a team just magically becomes way worse when the games actually are important seems misguided.

 

[Gurn]

Just wait till next year!
The team is playing better, and if they didn't have such a horrible start, they would be a play off team!

signed 2021/2022

 

[iceburg]

I get the nervousness about these improvements being temporary and that the team could revert next year to previous levels of play. But I don't beleive it will. Tocchet is preaching a consistent, aggressive style of play which is exactly how a team avoids long, bad stretches. If he is successful in making the good play, good habits, I believe they will be fine and be able to get results that are consistent with their level of personnel.

 

[kanucks25]

That's a weird takeaway from that quote. Finishing your check instead of turning to follow the play leaves your D more hung out to dry, not less.

I don't think he's necessarily talking about finishing your check on the forecheck, I think he's talking about all over the ice, including on the back-check.

Guys like Kuzmenko and Horvat when he was here are notorious for skating back and then instead of skating through the guy they are chasing, they will button hook to try to cheat for offense. If they just continue to back-track, they could get the puck themselves and prevent some goals against.

 

[kanucks25]

Like many others, I'm not going to put much stock in what happens the rest of this season because of the coach bump. They'll have to prove it when the games actually matter next Fall.

That said, I don't know if I've ever agreed with what the coach has said in interviews and whatnot as much as I have with Tocchet. Obviously he's not exactly a master of language (elephant) but I still think most of what he says makes sense and applies.

 

[gringo]

Team went from “garbage time games don’t matter” to “garbage time games are our Stanley cup” in the course of a calendar year. This is ugly.

 

[Hollywood Burrows]

I have no idea how he's doing but I put the game on for a couple seconds (ugh) last night and there was a clip of tocchet off-ice and his tshirt was on inside out. you could clearly see the tag.

 

[MarkMM]

I have no idea how he's doing but I put the game on for a couple seconds (ugh) last night and there was a clip of tocchet off-ice and his tshirt was on inside out. you could clearly see the tag.

Oh man, you didn't get a picture of it, did you?

 

[Regress2TheMeme]

I'm pretty happy with what I have seen from Tocchet. Holding players accountable without appearing to have whipping boys and teacher's pets is helping to shake the country club environment that's plagued this team for years. The team just looks faster under Tocchet too.

Hard to say if it's Toccet or the departure of Horvat, but Miller seems to have his head on straight finally and looks like a positive presence.

 

[The Poacher]

That's a weird takeaway from that quote. Finishing your check instead of turning to follow the play leaves your D more hung out to dry, not less.

It only works like that if there’s no support cutting passing lanes down. Finishing your check, in the offensive zone, neutral zone or wherever forces the puck carrier to make a play quicker because he has to brass for contact after. Your taking a half second away from the puck carrier for his reads and to make a clean pass.

An NHL d man knows he has extra time with the puck when Boeser is forechecking for example.

 

[ephmrl]

I think the team has done better under Tocchet (not just in wins/losses, which I attribute more to the team finally getting quality goaltending) - but their PK has improved to my eye test, and they generally seem a bit more structurally sound and hard to play against.

But I’ll reserve judgement until the fall. The Canucks surged under Boudreau last year and played good hockey under him. I hope this isn’t a flash in the pan, but rather a sign the team can be good going forward, especially if we add quality pieces via draft, free agency and trade in the off season.

I agree that we need to be cautious about the way they're playing, since they've already done this before, but I think there's a major difference between the results from "Boudreau bump" at the end of last season and what's happening right now. Last year, it seemed like a lot of the wins came from Demko bailing the team out and then them scoring on a counterattack, whereas this time they seem to have a lot more structure to their game and aren't solely relying on Demko to be the entire defence for the team.

The way they're playing right now is a lot more sustainable to long-term success than what happened at the end of the last season, but again, always good to remain skeptical since this is the Canucks, and they can easily go and lay an egg for the entire first half of next season again.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

We seem like we always do better in meaningless games after we’re all but eliminated.
I’ll wait until the early part of next season when the games matter.

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

He’s really taken control of the room and brought in some great assistants to help out the areas we struggle the most.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Like many others, I'm not going to put much stock in what happens the rest of this season because of the coach bump. They'll have to prove it when the games actually matter next Fall.

That said, I don't know if I've ever agreed with what the coach has said in interviews and whatnot as much as I have with Tocchet. Obviously he's not exactly a master of language (elephant) but I still think most of what he says makes sense and applies.

This is totally it...The team has cratered in the first quarter for three consecutive years..If fans of the team seem wary and sceptical for next season, they have valid reasons to be.

You would definitely have to be very selective making a prediction of where they'll finish next season.

 

[gringo]

This is totally it...The team has cratered in the first quarter for three consecutive years..If fans of the team seem wary and sceptical for next season, they have valid reasons to be.

You would definitely have to be very selective making a prediction of where they'll finish next season.

Two years in a row I blew a ton of money betting on the canucks in the first quarter.

 

[Gurn]

record under Tocchet:
9-7-2 20 points in 18 games .556
do that for a season:
and they would be tied with Nashville for 20th in league standings.
in sole possession of 5th in the division
3rd spot in the Wildcard

.556 is the best that a Tocchet led team has achieved, in his career.

 

[Hit the post]

record under Tocchet:
9-7-2 20 points in 18 games .556
do that for a season:
and they would be tied with Nashville for 20th in league standings.
in sole possession of 5th in the division
3rd spot in the Wildcard

.556 is the best that a Tocchet led team has achieved, in his career.

Just need to pray any *ONE* of EP, Miller, Hughes or Demko isn't out of the lineup for a prolonged period of time.

 

[Orr4Norris]

record under Tocchet:
9-7-2 20 points in 18 games .556
do that for a season:
and they would be tied with Nashville for 20th in league standings.
in sole possession of 5th in the division
3rd spot in the Wildcard

.556 is the best that a Tocchet led team has achieved, in his career.

And it’s a relatively soft schedule.

Nashville is a good comp for this team’s ceiling if they live up to their potential.

 

[Brookbank]

But I’ll reserve judgement until the fall. The Canucks surged under Boudreau last year and played good hockey under him. I hope this isn’t a flash in the pan, but rather a sign the team can be good going forward, especially if we add quality pieces via draft, free agency and trade in the off season.

This was already different than that though. Bruce was an instant surge. The first game and on.

Tocchet has slowly changed things. So hopefully it has some staying power. It looks to me like Tocchet has learned something and adapted from being a typical Torts/Sutter type. He's a bit younger. He still has that in him but with a more diplomatic tone.

Hopefully Tocchet can be the coach for 5 years.

 

[racerjoe]

record under Tocchet:
9-7-2 20 points in 18 games .556
do that for a season:
and they would be tied with Nashville for 20th in league standings.
in sole possession of 5th in the division
3rd spot in the Wildcard

.556 is the best that a Tocchet led team has achieved, in his career.

Funny enough, that is exactly where I had this team placed to start the season. I have said many times I think we are the 5th best team in the div.