Value of: Timothy Liljegren

[Brobust]

Not that I want him to be traded. I'm more interested to see how fans of other value him.

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[AuraSphere]

It's a weird time to be asking this - I don't think fans of other teams will value him as highly as we do right now. He improves each game - and in the last game against the devils, looked like our best d-man on the ice.

I think he's going to be a rock solid top 4 RHD for us by next year - whereas other fans would still probably need to see more before giving him any real value. He's a young 22 d-man just making his way into the league and figuring things out - but boy did he look confident and well poised yesterday

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

I would say he's justified his draft position. Mid 1st or late 1st/high 2nd + a good NHL prospect. Maybe as high as the Kapanen return if a team really likes him.

 

[Atomos2]

His value is relatively high. Especially when you factor in his age, handedness and potential. Looks like the makings of a solid top 4 D. Maybe more if other things go right. Definitely not up for trading unless its an offer you couldn't refuse.

 

[peconcan]

Nobody would offer close to what we value him. Best option is we just keep him and hope we can sign him to a team friendly extension that turns into a steal of a contract, he has tons of potential.

 

[RationalExpectations]

I think TOR should keep him. However, I wonder how much he asks for though.

Looking at capfriendly, I see that TOR has 9.5m cap space to sign 9 players, o/w 1 goalie, Sandin, Liljegren. Assuming they dump Mrazek and his 3.8m cap hit, it's 13.3 for 10 players, that's still short. In that context I think it is possible that one of Sandin and Liljgren is traded but I don't see a return smaller than what Kapanen got for either of them.
That's actually why I am surprised Dubas is not going all in right now (only two years of Matthews after this one and Sandin/Liljgren will be hard to fit under the cap).

 

[malcb33]

I could see Vancouver being very interested in him.

If I were the Leafs, I would value his potential, position and contract very highly so, I don't know what they would want back to make it "worth it" to trade him.

 

[TheDoldrums]

I think TOR should keep him. However, I wonder how much he asks for though.

Looking at capfriendly, I see that TOR has 9.5m cap space to sign 9 players, o/w 1 goalie, Sandin, Liljegren. Assuming they dump Mrazek and his 3.8m cap hit, it's 13.3 for 10 players, that's still short. In that context I think it is possible that one of Sandin and Liljgren is traded but I don't see a return smaller than what Kapanen got for either of them.
That's actually why I am surprised Dubas is not going all in right now (only two years of Matthews after this one and Sandin/Liljgren will be hard to fit under the cap).

Sandin/Liljegren will not be hard to fit under the cap. Young RFA defensemen without a ton of ice time, those are some of the easiest guys to squeeze. And while their offensive production is decent it doesn't jump off the page with their lack of PP time. I mean neither are even guaranteed to be in the lineup with a fully healthy roster after the Gio trade.

Cheap, short deals would benefit both parties. They need more time and opportunity to show they're worthy of a big extension, Leafs need their cap hits low for at least the next two years.

 

[RationalExpectations]

Sandin/Liljegren will not be hard to fit under the cap. Young RFA defensemen without a ton of ice time, those are some of the easiest guys to squeeze. And while their offensive production is decent it doesn't jump off the page with their lack of PP time. I mean neither are even guaranteed to be in the lineup with a fully healthy roster after the Gio trade.

Cheap, short deals would benefit both parties. They need more time and opportunity to show they're worthy of a big extension, Leafs need their cap hits low for at least the next two years.

I imagine comparables will be around Hronek, Marino, Lindgren, i.e. 3-4m right ?

 

[seanlinden]

I imagine comparables will be around Hronek, Marino, Lindgren, i.e. 3-4m right ?

Likely so, but those guys signed 3-4 year deals. The Leafs MO has seemingly gravitated towards bridge deals -- pay for the player he is today, not what you hope he will be in the future -- as a means to keep cap hit down and get through another close-to-flat-cap year with the big contracts.

That being said, I can also envision a situation where Giordano plays well enough and is willing to sign a substantially under-market extension to finish his career here. If that happens, the Leafs might decide now is the time to move Muzzin, in which case it would open up cap space to sign both of these guys to bigger terms.

Run with something like:
Rielly-Brodie
Giordano-Liljegren
Sandin-Lyubushkin

Expect to add at the deadline, or maybe you can get somebody a little better than Lyubushkin.

 

[OneSniffTwoSniff]

Leafs should 100% keep him. I think he's correct value would be a 1st + B level prospect and a roster player.

 

[RationalExpectations]

Likely so, but those guys signed 3-4 year deals. The Leafs MO has seemingly gravitated towards bridge deals -- pay for the player he is today, not what you hope he will be in the future -- as a means to keep cap hit down and get through another close-to-flat-cap year with the big contracts.

That being said, I can also envision a situation where Giordano plays well enough and is willing to sign a substantially under-market extension to finish his career here. If that happens, the Leafs might decide now is the time to move Muzzin, in which case it would open up cap space to sign both of these guys to bigger terms.

Run with something like:
Rielly-Brodie
Giordano-Liljegren
Sandin-Lyubushkin

Expect to add at the deadline, or maybe you can get somebody a little better than Lyubushkin.

The issue is that Muzzin has a NTC and if the Leafs want to win now, I believe Muzzin is overall still better than Sandin for example right ?

 

[BlueBaron]

It's nice to see he is well regarded.

I'm a bit surprised how he turned out. I saw him as an offensive guy. Maybe we focused on his defensive game because the talent is there but it seems like we are turning him in to D first.

Still very happy with the pick.

 

[seanlinden]

The issue is that Muzzin has a NTC and if the Leafs want to win now, I believe Muzzin is overall still better than Sandin for example right ?

Yes he does (NTC); and yes he is (better than Sandin). It's a downgrade for the Leafs to free up cap flexibility, while hoping that Giordano does ~90% of what Muzzin does for less than half the cost.

Ultimately though, I do believe Muzzin would be picked up on waivers; which kind of renders his full NTC to not really be that. Leafs won't get anything for him, but they'll probably find a mutually beneficial solution.

 

[AcerComputer]

Sandin and Liljegren are the exact players the Leafs need, since they will be relatively cheap to re-sign. Need to trade out players like Muzzin making $5.6M.

 

[The Kessel Run]

It's a weird time to be asking this - I don't think fans of other teams will value him as highly as we do right now. He improves each game - and in the last game against the devils, looked like our best d-man on the ice.

I think he's going to be a rock solid top 4 RHD for us by next year - whereas other fans would still probably need to see more before giving him any real value. He's a young 22 d-man just making his way into the league and figuring things out - but boy did he look confident and well poised yesterday

Hmmm, see I thought he was a turnover factory last night.

 

[AcerComputer]

Yes he does (NTC); and yes he is (better than Sandin). It's a downgrade for the Leafs to free up cap flexibility, while hoping that Giordano does ~90% of what Muzzin does for less than half the cost.

Ultimately though, I do believe Muzzin would be picked up on waivers; which kind of renders his full NTC to not really be that. Leafs won't get anything for him, but they'll probably find a mutually beneficial solution.

He has a 10-team no Trade. Assuming his injury gets cleared up, Muzzin is more than Waiver fodder. Should return a decent asset actually if the Leafs go down that route.

 

[RationalExpectations]

He has a 10-team no Trade. Assuming his injury gets cleared up, Muzzin is more than Waiver fodder. Should return a decent asset actually if the Leafs go down that route.

His 10 team NTC starts 2023, next year still full NTC

 

[TheDoldrums]

I imagine comparables will be around Hronek, Marino, Lindgren, i.e. 3-4m right ?

Hronkek played 22 minutes a night, Marino and Lindgren 20 minutes a night. Sandin 16 minutes, Liljegren 15 minutes a night. So I don't see them as comparables, they haven't been taking on similar roles. Also think the Leafs will try to limit the extensions to 2 years to further drive down the AAV.

 

[Brobust]

Sandin/Liljegren will not be hard to fit under the cap. Young RFA defensemen without a ton of ice time, those are some of the easiest guys to squeeze. And while their offensive production is decent it doesn't jump off the page with their lack of PP time. I mean neither are even guaranteed to be in the lineup with a fully healthy roster after the Gio trade.

Cheap, short deals would benefit both parties. They need more time and opportunity to show they're worthy of a big extension, Leafs need their cap hits low for at least the next two years.

Toronto does not have the habit of doing this but 5 year deals for both at $2.5-3M is the best way to go.

 

[RationalExpectations]

Hronkek played 22 minutes a night, Marino and Lindgren 20 minutes a night. Liljegren 15 minutes, Sandin 16 minutes a night. So I don't see them as comparables, they haven't been taking on similar roles. Also think the Leafs will try to keep extensions to 2 years to further drive down the AAV.

Ok so let s assume 2x2 for both (can't see below), Campbell or another goalie at 4m, it still means the leafs have 5m cap for 7 players right ? (taking into account they dump Mrazek)

Again I am convinced the Leafs should keep them I just don't see how :s

 

[AuraSphere]

Hmmm, see I thought he was a turnover factory last night.

Guess we watched 2 different games - should check out the timothy liljegren thread on the leafs board. Many people thought he was outstanding

 

[TS Quint]

Dermott trajectory.

 

[The90]

Ok so let s assume 2x2 for both (can't see below), Campbell or another goalie at 4m, it still means the leafs have 5m cap for 7 players right ? (taking into account they dump Mrazek)

Again I am convinced the Leafs should keep them I just don't see how :s

I see kerfoot and Holl being traded. That’s an additional 5.7

 

[AcerComputer]

His 10 team NTC starts 2023, next year still full NTC

Okay thanks for clarifying. Either way he's far from waiver fodder. Muzzin would waive his NTC rather than risk getting picked up on Waivers by a team like Arizona.