I agree. It’s why I’ve spoken multiple times about how I dont subscribe to this common thought process out there than it’s round 2 or fired for Dubas. I think it really matters how things go down more than what result happens
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Tribute Timothy Liljegren Part 3 - Everyone wants Flowers.
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HamiltonNHL
Resigning Marner == Running it back
- Jan 4, 2012
- 22,710
- 13,885
He's a right D.
There is a LEAGUE WIDE shortage of good right D.
So, value wise, he could be "not as good" as Sandin and be "more valuable".
Maplebeasts
I See Demons!!!!!
I like him better than Sandin personally. His offense is around the same level but he's more of a shooting threat than a distributor unlike Sandin. He's bigger and a better overall skater though. The advantage he has in raw physical tools has allowed his game to translate better when he's moved up the line-up.
stickty111
Registered User
- Jan 23, 2017
- 27,260
- 34,233
LeafalCrusader
Registered User
Maplebeasts
I See Demons!!!!!
Sounds more like a Dermott showcase. It's being speculated the Leafs are looking at moving Dermott to give him a fresh start and to get some more assets.
Sandin lays the body more than Liljegren and is a better hitter than Liljegren. That’s why I’m higher on Sandin, he’s smaller but is way more effective at using the body. It is nice however to see Liljegren getting more opportunity to move the puck and show case is offensive ability. But between the two right now, Sandin is the better player. But it’s great we get to have both for a while.
Not saying this in a negative way, but is it really surprising? He’s getting a lot of O Zone starts and is playing exclusively with the top line that’s been on fire for the last month. He’s making the absolute best of an amazing opportunity.
FWIW, I’m not interested in just moving Dermott for the sake of moving him. Unless we are 1 for 1 swapping him for a piece that helps us now, cap space to make a deadline move, or in a package for an upgrade I’d rather just keep him as depth
zeke
The Dube Abides
- Mar 14, 2005
- 66,937
- 36,957
Neither of these are true, of course.
w/Matthews: 193:421
w/Tavares: 185:16
w/Kampf: 144:28
w/Spezza: 101:22
He doesn't play with any specific line whatsoever - his minutes with each correlates pretty closely with the ice time those players get overall.
Offensive Zone Start%
1. Rielly 12.36%
2. Brodie 11.55%
3. Liljegren 10.42%
4. Lyubushkin 8.13%
5. Muzzin 8.06%
6. Sandin 8.01%
7. Holl 7.94%
8. Dermott 7.63%
Defensive Zone Start%
1. Brodie 10.99%
2. Holl 10.62%
3. Muzzin 10.53%
4. Rielly 10.31%
5. Liljegren 9.51%
6. Lyubushkin 9.35%
7. Sandin 8.75%
8. Dermott 8.51%
Dzone minus Ozone start%
1. Holl +2.68
2. Muzzin +2.47
3. Lyubushkin +1.22
4. Dermott +0.88
5. Sandin +0.74
6. Brodie -0.56
7. Liljegren -0.91
8. Rielly -2.05
A bit skewed to ozone starts but only slightly.
DarkKnight
Professional Amateur
- Jan 17, 2017
- 35,587
- 57,228
Who would get you more in a trade is the way to look at it? I still say Sandin no question, but both have progressed well.
Maplebeasts
I See Demons!!!!!
Sandin is the sexier name. Liljegren when you actually break things down and look at context is the better player.
Exactly it’s not really close between the two in my opinion. Sandin to me is better in a lot of different aspects and I’m sure holds slightly more value. Runs the PP very effectively, more physical, better offensive instincts. They both make mental lapses, but Sandin plays better defense, when defending zone entry’s. I don’t think either will be on the move. But Lilly is the shinny new toy haha. You can see the growth in Liljegren’s game though which is nice. People can attach all the fancy stats they want but I prefer eye test and what I can see when I’m at games and watching on TV.
Buds17
Registered User
- Nov 29, 2015
- 8,590
- 3,623
I feel like sitting out a player this close to the trade deadline is more the behaviour of a selling team doing so with one of their pending UFAs. I think this move is Keefe shuffling certain defencemen into and out of the lineup as he has done for much of the season.
BertCorbeau
F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
Keep in mind Lily’s played 44 games this year. His regular season high in the AHL was 44. Part of this is workload management so he doesn’t get worn down for the playoffs. Not only is this the toughest competition he’s faced, he’a playing more hockey than he ever has.
I disagree with a fair bit of what you wrote here. But I want to preclude this by saying, I think both these players are terrific. Sandin’s power play usage is a feather in his cap, but Liljegren is more than capable of running a PP as well. He has done it very effectively throughout his career, just never had an opportunity yet at this level. His offensive instincts are also top notch, he just looks different doing it. He has an excellent first pass and shot. I’ll give Rasmus the edge in those two areas based on opportunity pp wise and some terrific puck work he’s made in the NHL so far. I firmly disagree however with the assertion that Sandin is better defensively, he definitely is not. I see a decent bit more maturity in Liljegrens defensive play than Sandins, but the latter has come a long way this year. Physicality, in terms of hitting people goes to Sandin, but I think Liljegren actually uses his body more effectively than Sandin does otherwise. Liljegren is also a better skater
It’s very close, but I think Liljegren has more of his overall game together and is currently the better player. They both excel looking a little differently, and that might be part of why they work so well together
As for what a team would trade for them, their value, I think the choice between if you were acquiring them is more of perceived ceiling than who is actually better now, and I could see why someone would potentially be more keen to choose Sandin in that scenario. But it also is likely a matter of stylistic fit
Either way, both ours and going nowhere soon
Excellent observations and again it’s up to personal preference. I’m not going to say you’re wrong. That’s how you view things, I view it a bit differently and that’s okay. I don’t think anyone is wrong or right in this situation.
As I’ve said a few times already and you alluded to, we’ve got both locked up! So we’ll be just fine.
Morgs
#16 #34 #44 #88 #91
I've always had him above Sandin, even to the ridicule of the prospect polls
Sandin had a better start to the season, but Liljegren has been better since like game 20ish. Unlike Sandin, I don't think his skating will ever be a problem and his defense is miles ahead. Sandin is better overall offensively, but its a lot closer than defense and honestly it depends what youre looking for. Both great in transition.
But really we shouldn't compare them. For once we have two guys who realistically will play with each other and compliment each other very well. Don't want another Kadri/Bozak or Nylander/Marner situation.
The Iceman
Registered User
- Sep 22, 2007
- 5,348
- 4,068
IMO if TL would knock some bodies down in front of the net once in a while he would be a gem.
He lacks urgency in this aspect.
I love everything else about his game.
He lacks urgency in this aspect.
I love everything else about his game.
For what it’s worth, Lil’s hitting came with time in the AHL. Entirely likely it will at this level too.
He plays for the Leafs. That's a penalty for us.
