Tribute Timothy Liljegren part 2

[stickty111]

Not close to accurate on Liljegren. but makes me curious as to who you would target that is defensively reliable for this deadline?

Considering he wants to trade every asset we have for Karlsson, IDK we should take him seriously.

 

[Fogelhund]

Best GA/60 of any full season Leaf D, last year too. Yup, defensively inept. Strange how a defensively inept D, ends up with the best on ice results, and yields the least amount of Goals Against.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Not close to accurate on Liljegren. but makes me curious as to who you would target that is defensively reliable for this deadline?

The only teams I watch every game I can of is the Leafs, Rangers, and Devils.

I like Seigenthaler on the Devil's. Miller on the Rangers. Too bad I don't expect either team to be sellers.

I don't have time to watch all 32 teams.

I also don't have a team of well paid analysts to advise me. This is a loaded question. It implies some random guy on the internet, who doesn't even work in the industry, can do the job better than those entrusted to do so.

When really they need to do a better job than the other 31 GM's.

 

[arso40]

Not close to accurate on Liljegren. but makes me curious as to who you would target that is defensively reliable for this deadline?

who cares who he'd say with an opinion like that it isn't worth much anyway the one game lily misses brodie has his worst game of the season and we have our worst showing in 8 games dare i say hes a better two way defensemen then rielly and has been the best defensemen we've had based on metrics the last 2 years of course he's played lesser comp. but i'd also argue thats based on the coach being bias to his players and not cause any fault of lily him and sandin looked perfectly fine against tougher comp earlier last year when rielly was injured as well

 

[Judas Tavares]

He stinks, send him along with all the team's youth to Chicago to retain salary on a declining asset, ya hear? Let's go. Shut up, Ron.

 

[arso40]

He stinks, send him along with all the team's youth to Chicago to retain salary on a declining asset, ya hear? Let's go. Shut up, Ron.

leave cherry alone bud lmao

 

[arso40]

nobody wanted to listen to me i hope i dont jinx him for next game but really solid wouldnt trade him no matter who comes bacc hes not gonna cost us too much and hes definitely a top 4 dman with a top pairing ceiling

i knew i was jinxing us my apologies but the writing was on the wall rielly was gonna be playing top pairing minutes without a capable partner had a loss written all over it

 

[Scion]

Best GA/60 of any full season Leaf D, last year too. Yup, defensively inept. Strange how a defensively inept D, ends up with the best on ice results, and yields the least amount of Goals Against.

Even I'm at the point where I think you have to ride him in a top pair role against tough competition. At a certain point the numbers speak for themselves, and I think maybe myself and some others focused so much on the bad that it created a bias that is distorting reality a little bit.

The only teams I watch every game I can of is the Leafs, Rangers, and Devils.

I like Seigenthaler on the Devil's. Miller on the Rangers. Too bad I don't expect either team to be sellers.

I don't have time to watch all 32 teams.

I also don't have a team of well paid analysts to advise me. This is a loaded question. It implies some random guy on the internet, who doesn't even work in the industry, can do the job better than those entrusted to do so.

When really they need to do a better job than the other 31 GM's.

Nobody watches all 32 teams, that's why instat is such a sucessful business brother.

 

[ponder]

Best GA/60 of any full season Leaf D, last year too. Yup, defensively inept. Strange how a defensively inept D, ends up with the best on ice results, and yields the least amount of Goals Against.

I consider myself quite a Lily fan, but you have to take these stats with a grain of salt. Lily gets pretty sheltered minutes - high % of o-zone faceoffs, low % of d-zone faceoffs, low quality of competition. This stuff does matter a lot - for example Travis Dermott always had excellent on/off-ice stats (real goal differential, expected goal differential, CORSI/Fenwick/etc.), but also got sheltered minutes, and he was ultimately a very borderline NHL dmen who never went anywhere once he left the Leafs. Starting in the o-zone against bottom 6 competition is just massively different than starting in the d-zone against top lines, how often you do those things has a tremendous impact on on/off-ice stats. Lily's on/off-ice stats would likely take a significant hit if he was given tougher minutes.

In terms of the eye test, I'd say Lily is quite a good 1-on-1 defender - good skater, solid build, hard to beat 1-on-1 unless you can catch him out of position to start. Positionally he's often good, but is more prone to getting caught in no-mans-land than our top defensive dmen, like Brodie and McCabe. On breakouts, I feel like the talent is there, and he's often good, but does just straight up bobble the puck more than any other Leafs dman, whiffing on stick handling and passing. I think these are both mostly mental, confidence related things - overthinking and bobbling the puck, or being indecisive with his positioning and getting stuck in no-man's land. These issues tend to appear (and go away) in stretches for him, I'm guessing when he's feeling confident he plays well, but when he's lacking confidence these issues rise up.

I do think he's a quality dman overall, today, but he does have some holes in his game, mostly confidence related IMO. I'd like to see Keefe show some strong belief in him, give him tougher minutes and positive encouragement, and see how he does. But I also do think his on/off-ice stats are helped out quite a bit by fairly soft/sheltered minutes, I don't think he's better than any of Rielly, Brodie or McCabe, today, but I do think he's our 4th best dman, with plenty of upside to become better.

 

[Fogelhund]

He does also get pretty sheltered minutes - high o-zone faceoffs, low d-zone faceoffs, low quality of competition. This stuff does matter a lot - for example Travis Dermott always had excellent on/off-ice stats (real goal differential, expected goal differential, CORSI/Fenwick/etc.), but also got sheltered minutes, and he was ultimately a very borderline NHL dmen who never went anywhere once he left the Leafs. Starting in the o-zone against bottom 6 competition is just massively different than starting in the d-zone against top lines, it has a tremendous impact on on/off-ice stats.

I am a big Lily fan, I do think it's worth giving him more responsibility and seeing how he handles it, but you can't take on/off-ice stats at face value, without looking at how difficult the minutes are (o-zone/d-zone faceoff percentages, quality of competition). Lily has so far been seeing quite sheltered minutes, his numbers won't necessarily hold up if given tougher minutes.

Just watching him, I'd say Lily is quite a good 1-on-1 defender - good skater, solid build, hard to beat 1-on-1 unless you can catch him out of position to start. Positionally he's often good, but is more prone to getting caught in no-mans-land than our top defensive dmen, like Brodie and McCabe. On breakouts, I feel like the talent is there, and he's often good, but he does get stuck in his own sometimes, he just straight up bobbles the puck, whiffing on stick handling and passing more than any other core Leafs dman. I do think he's a quality dman overall, but he does have some holes in his game. I think they're mostly confidence related/mental, which is why I would like to see Keefe show some strong belief in him, give him tougher minutes and positive encouragement, and see how he does. But I also do think his on/off-ice stats are helped out quite a bit by fairly soft/sheltered minutes, I don't think he's better than any of Rielly, Brodie or McCabe, today, but I do think he's our 4th best dman, with plenty of upside to become better.

Agreed... but he most certainly doesn't stink, and isn't inept.

 

[nuck]

Agreed... but he most certainly doesn't stink, and isn't inept.

He showed something when Rielly was out. I really hope they add that righty soon so they can move Brodie back to the left and we can find out if that pair was as good as it seemed.

 

[ponder]

Agreed... but he most certainly doesn't stink, and isn't inept.

Yeah totally, I like him, I think he's a legit #4 dman today, with the upside to become even better. But the raw on/off-ice stats would make you think that Lily and Timmins are the Leafs top 2 dmen, today, but I think that's not the case, they play much softer minutes than Rielly, Brodie, McCabe and Benoit, which boosts their on/off-ice stats a bunch.

 

[Fogelhund]

Yeah totally, I like him, I think he's a legit #4 dman today, with the upside to become even better. But the raw on/off-ice stats would make you think that Lily and Timmins are the Leafs top 2 dmen, today, but I think that's not the case, they play much softer minutes than Rielly, Brodie, McCabe and Benoit, which boosts their on/off-ice stats a bunch.

I think Timmins is, and can be better than most give him credit for. He isn't the best Leafs D man, despite having decent results.

Lily needs to work on his fanning the puck, but otherwise I quite like his growth. He's become a physical specimen, for a guy of his build.

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

is he playing tonight?

 

[Maplebeasts]

Not close to accurate on Liljegren. but makes me curious as to who you would target that is defensively reliable for this deadline?

Knowing how insightful that post was I’m going to guess Lyubushkin.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Da real question is quite simple? .............. Can Lily be relied on to withstand da cats and bruins forecheck in playoffs??????????????????????????????

 

[aingefan]

Can anyone offer an accurate appraisal of Lili’s play today?
Didn’t get a chance to watch, but Leaf Talk guys were saying his confidence is shot, something about body language?
Box score shows 21mins, 3hits 3blocks, and even.
Thanks.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Lily for PP1

 

[stickty111]

Can anyone offer an accurate appraisal of Lili’s play today?
Didn’t get a chance to watch, but Leaf Talk guys were saying his confidence is shot, something about body language?
Box score shows 21mins, 3hits 3blocks, and even.
Thanks.

His first 2 periods weren't good. He was better in the 3rd. Also don't focus on Bunkis and McKee. Just awful analysts.

 

[aingefan]

P

His first 2 periods weren't good. He was better in the 3rd. Also don't focus on Bunkis and McKee. Just awful analysts.

His first 2 periods weren't good. He was better in the 3rd. Also don't focus on Bunkis and McKee. Just awful analysts.

Thanks for the reply.
Anything specific? Lost coverage, turnovers?
Lately there’s this lightning rod vibe around him lately.

 

[stickty111]

P


Thanks for the reply.
Anything specific? Lost coverage, turnovers?
Lately there’s this lightning rod vibe around him lately.

Fanned on a puck, and took 2 penalties all though the 2nd one was a bad call. His game settled down when they put him with Rielly on occasion. In the 3rd, they put a loaded line of Matthews, Nylander, Marner with Rielly and Lilly couple times in the O zone

 

[LeafSteel]

Would love to see what Liljegren can become here under a different coach.

Right now he seems to be walking on eggshells, especially before the TDL.

You can’t do what he needs to do without confidence and Keefe has done a lousy job building this young players confidence.

Letting him go would be a mistake.

 

[horner]

Would love to see what Liljegren can become here under a different coach.

Right now he seems to be walking on eggshells, especially before the TDL.

You can’t do what he needs to do without confidence and Keefe has done a lousy job building this young players confidence.

Letting him go would be a mistake.

Unless he wants Sandin's money
3 mil for 3 yrs anything more trade him
He is not a finished product

I want to see how he does in the playoffs

 

[arso40]

Thanks for the reply.
Anything specific? Lost coverage, turnovers?
Lately there’s this lightning rod vibe around him lately.

picced up a couple penalties one was bogus the other one was the end of his d pair and tavares line getting hemmed in

 

[Ianturnedbull]

James Mirtle Twitter:



Why would he use Liljegren's image?