Tribute Timothy Liljegren part 2

[thusk]

Add to that that he gets thrown to new D partners every night because Keefe wants to tinker. The Kid is in his second full season, playing great for three quarters of the season. A bunch of trades go down. Pairings get thrown in a blender. Team is playing poorly defensively and suddenly he is benched when he has a few bad games. Seriously WTF. Holl is a terrible terrible D Man and get opportunity after opportunity. I’ll take Lily over him any day of the week. If he isn’t on one of the pairing I all but guarantee we lose to TB.

Just stop with holl being terrible, he had some elite defensive stats this season

Like blamimg Holl for lack of physicality but the Holl is 5th in the entire NHL amount D with at least 800 min played in D puck battle win. Puck battle is #1 stats for physical game and the truth is Holl had been the most physical leafs D...

-Hes 15 th amount All D in entry zone denial
-11 th in penalty kill time

Just some stats, Holl earned his spot and his ice time he had this season

Liljegren had nobody else to blame except himself. Schenn didn't won last spot because he was amaizing, he won it because liljegren was totally trash

 

[Clyde Brewer]

I thought Lily looked ok last night, maybe his best outing since the trade deadline.

He threw a couple of hits and looked more composed with the puck. Still needs to work on staying in his feet.

I'd like to see him get some more PP2 minutes.

 

[stickty111]

I thought Lily looked ok last night, maybe his best outing since the trade deadline.

He threw a couple of hits and looked more composed with the puck. Still needs to work on staying in his feet.

I'd like to see him get some more PP2 minutes.

Last 2 games he's looked good. Even the Florida game was fine but had a couple bobbles with the puck.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Just stop with holl being terrible, he had some elite defensive stats this season

Like blamimg Holl for lack of physicality but the Holl is 5th in the entire NHL amount D with at least 800 min played in D puck battle win. Puck battle is #1 stats for physical game and the truth is Holl had been the most physical leafs D...

-Hes 15 th amount All D in entry zone denial
-11 th in penalty kill time

Just some stats, Holl earned his spot and his ice time he had this season

Liljegren had nobody else to blame except himself. Schenn didn't won last spot because he was amaizing, he won it because liljegren was totally trash

The Holl bashing in this place is just insane, I don't even know what else to say.

 

[LeafSteel]

I think Liljegren has looked better and Timmins acquitted himself fairly well yesterday too, considering he was playing on his off-side and for the 1st time in almost 1 1/2 months....

Those guys are our future, and it's why Holl gets the hate that he does. He is an obstacle to their development, through no fault of his own. Blame Keefe for over-playing him, and blame Dubas for never having truly addressed our 1RHD other than with band-aid solutions.

Can't wait to see what a RHD of Liljegren, Timmins, and Niemela becomes in the next 2-3 years, and I hope that Dubas gives us a 1RHD to give them the room and time to develop properly.

 

[ULF_55]

The Holl bashing in this place is just insane, I don't even know what else to say.

Won't matter in about 4 weeks anyway.

And he'll be too expensive to re-sign.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Won't matter in about 4 weeks anyway.

And he'll be too expensive to re-sign.

I don't think anything people post here ever matters, it's still been crazy though. Holl's played way above expectations, or at least way above what expectations should be based on his cap hit and some people have just been bitching about him non-stop for years. Insane!

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I think Liljegren has looked better and Timmins acquitted himself fairly well yesterday too, considering he was playing on his off-side and for the 1st time in almost 1 1/2 months....

Those guys are our future, and it's why Holl gets the hate that he does. He is an obstacle to their development, through no fault of his own. Blame Keefe for over-playing him, and blame Dubas for never having truly addressed our 1RHD other than with band-aid solutions.

Can't wait to see what a RHD of Liljegren, Timmins, and Niemela becomes in the next 2-3 years, and I hope that Dubas gives us a 1RHD to give them the room and time to develop properly.

Brodie was better than a band-aid solution, and arguably the best solution available short of throwing a ridiculous amount of money at Hamilton or Pietrangelo.

Top pairing RD are extremely rare, and we managed to build a solid defense with guys who are all very capable 4/5 guys or better on the right side with a fairly strong LD to match.

Defense really is not what has killed the Leafs... in the playoffs or otherwise. Quite frankly, there are a lot more defensive lapses coming from the forwards that lead to goals against than anything.

 

[LeafSteel]

Brodie was better than a band-aid solution, and arguably the best solution available short of throwing a ridiculous amount of money at Hamilton or Pietrangelo.

Top pairing RD are extremely rare, and we managed to build a solid defense with guys who are all very capable 4/5 guys or better on the right side with a fairly strong LD to match.

Defense really is not what has killed the Leafs... in the playoffs or otherwise. Quite frankly, there are a lot more defensive lapses coming from the forwards that lead to goals against than anything.

Our opinions will remain different here.

Brodie is a LHD playing on the right side, just like Hainsey. As solid as they are on RHD, they are still playing their off-side.

I'm not talking about going after big ticket RHD like the one's you've mentioned, but there have been opportunities in the past couple of years to bring in bonafide 1RHD, and we haven't done it.

Compare the RHD depth that NJ, Carolina, LA, Bruins, and Tampa has, and it feels like a complete failure by Dubas that he hasn't come up with anything better. We now see some with the 3 RHD I've already named.

Like I said, we aren't going to agree, and that's fine.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I don't think anything people post here ever matters, it's still been crazy though. Holl's played way above expectations, or at least way above what expectations should be based on his cap hit and some people have just been bitching about him non-stop for years. Insane!

Holl sucked a lot this year but since the TDL, Holl has edged out Liljegren. It doesn't make Liljegren any less important moving forward but probably rolling out something like this in the post-season as of now;

Jarnkrok-Matthews-88
Bunting-JT-Marner
Kerfoot/Knies-ROR-Laff
Kerfoot/ZAR-Kampf-Acciari

McCabe-Brodie
Rielly-Schenn
Gio-Holl

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Our opinions will remain different here.

Brodie is a LHD playing on the right side, just like Hainsey. As solid as they are on RHD, they are still playing their off-side.

I'm not talking about going after big ticket RHD like the one's you've mentioned, but there have been opportunities in the past couple of years to bring in bonafide 1RHD, and we haven't done it.

Compare the RHD depth that NJ, Carolina, LA, Bruins, and Tampa has, and it feels like a complete failure by Dubas that he hasn't come up with anything better. We now see some with the 3 RHD I've already named.

Like I said, we aren't going to agree, and that's fine.

Their handedness doesn't really matter. Brodie has spent most of his career as a RD. He is arguably better as a RD.

And our RD depth is up there with a lot of those teams. Boston, fine. They also built that through the draft before Dubas even took over. Carolina was a mix of trades and drafting Pesce although their bottom pairing RD is a lot worse than ours. Tampa has Cernak and that is it. The others are worse than all three of our RD. Even before, they were running Rutta, Bogosian, and Schenn... nothing impressive about that. LA has good RD but their LD is absolute trash even after adding Gavrikov.

But IDK what your expectations are? We have 3 guys who can comfortably play 18 minutes a night without sucking most of the time, and two of them can play over 20. If that is a failure, then you'd need a top 5 group to be considered a success.

 

[ULF_55]

I don't think anything people post here ever matters, it's still been crazy though. Holl's played way above expectations, or at least way above what expectations should be based on his cap hit and some people have just been bitching about him non-stop for years. Insane!

Borje and 70's music almost always

 

[Gary Nylund]

Brodie was better than a band-aid solution, and arguably the best solution available short of throwing a ridiculous amount of money at Hamilton or Pietrangelo.

Top pairing RD are extremely rare, and we managed to build a solid defense with guys who are all very capable 4/5 guys or better on the right side with a fairly strong LD to match.

Defense really is not what has killed the Leafs... in the playoffs or otherwise. Quite frankly, there are a lot more defensive lapses coming from the forwards that lead to goals against than anything.

Great post. And the bolded is so true!

Their handedness doesn't really matter. Brodie has spent most of his career as a RD. He is arguably better as a RD.

And our RD depth is up there with a lot of those teams. Boston, fine. They also built that through the draft before Dubas even took over. Carolina was a mix of trades and drafting Pesce although their bottom pairing RD is a lot worse than ours. Tampa has Cernak and that is it. The others are worse than all three of our RD. Even before, they were running Rutta, Bogosian, and Schenn... nothing impressive about that. LA has good RD but their LD is absolute trash even after adding Gavrikov.

But IDK what your expectations are? We have 3 guys who can comfortably play 18 minutes a night without sucking most of the time, and two of them can play over 20. If that is a failure, then you'd need a top 5 group to be considered a success.

Yup. This reminds me of when Babcock was whining about having more LD's then RD's.

But Babs, that's the case for almost every team in the league so what are you whining about?

 

[thusk]

I think Liljegren has looked better and Timmins acquitted himself fairly well yesterday too, considering he was playing on his off-side and for the 1st time in almost 1 1/2 months....

Those guys are our future, and it's why Holl gets the hate that he does. He is an obstacle to their development, through no fault of his own. Blame Keefe for over-playing him, and blame Dubas for never having truly addressed our 1RHD other than with band-aid solutions.

Can't wait to see what a RHD of Liljegren, Timmins, and Niemela becomes in the next 2-3 years, and I hope that Dubas gives us a 1RHD to give them the room and time to develop properly.

But Holl is not an obstacle to liljegren or timmims, they are not the same type of player and dont bring the same kind of thing on the ice...

The same way mccabe was not an obstacle to sandin because he doesn't bring the same thing...

Mccabe bring is some kind holl spot in top 4 because hes bringing whats holl was bringing but in a most consistent way


You cant blame holl to do what liljegren or timmins was unable...

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

Holl sucked a lot this year but since the TDL, Holl has edged out Liljegren. It doesn't make Liljegren any less important moving forward but probably rolling out something like this in the post-season as of now;

Jarnkrok-Matthews-88
Bunting-JT-Marner
Kerfoot/Knies-ROR-Laff
Kerfoot/ZAR-Kampf-Acciari

McCabe-Brodie
Rielly-Schenn
Gio-Holl

lol edged. Holl is light years ahead of Lil at this moment

 

[WTFMAN99]

lol edged. Holl is light years ahead of Lil at this moment

Since Schenn has come aboard, Holl has felt a lot more comfortable being physical.

I liked Liljegren's last game, I think he straight up got the yips once we added all these defenseman.

 

[Maplebeasts]

lol edged. Holl is light years ahead of Lil at this moment

Yeah no. Nowhere but in your head is that a reality.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Yeah no. Nowhere but in your head is that a reality.

Wow

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Just stop with holl being terrible, he had some elite defensive stats this season

The Holl bashing in this place is just insane, I don't even know what else to say.

lol edged. Holl is light years ahead of Lil at this moment

Hmm.

 

[Kiwi]

Hmm.

He has Elite defensive metrics I'm sure
I'd defy anybody to be this bad
You couldn't try to suck and be this bad

Jesus if he was a dog you'd take him out back and give him the old yeller treatment

 

[Notsince67]

Hmm.

Good bump.
Biggest problem beyond Holl playing like merde is the dzone exit.
Lil will provide way better defensive breakout allowing for increased ozone time. Even if he is subpar on the back wall, you aren't saving much and in the Leafs case, the best defense is a good offense.

 

[horner]

For people smarter than me.
What are the issues with Liljegren 's game .
Up until the trade deadline he was one of our better dman.
To me he was still better than holl after the deadline just wasn't playing as much .

 

[The Iceman]

Bottom line is can you shelter Holl's minutes enough otherwise that you can afford to dress him to PK?

It is no coincidence that Stamkos and his PP one timer are holding at zero.
Holl is an excellent PK shot blocker.

 

[hamzarocks]

Bottom line is can you shelter Holl's minutes enough otherwise that you can afford to dress him to PK?

It is no coincidence that Stamkos and his PP one timer are holding at zero.
Holl is an excellent PK shot blocker.

The PK is like 73%

It hasnt been great at all. Keeping Holl just to block shots on the PK is defensive coaching and stunts the team as hes not reliable right now

Lilijgren brings better puck transition with sjating abd via breakout passes. He is a decent PP2 option as well

Holl or Gio ahould be out game 6

 

[The Iceman]

The PK is like 73%

It hasnt been great at all. Keeping Holl just to block shots on the PK is defensive coaching and stunts the team as hes not reliable right now

Lilijgren brings better puck transition with sjating abd via breakout passes. He is a decent PP2 option as well

Holl or Gio ahould be out game 6

PK is in a 1 for 10 or 11 aren't they?