Ticket/Attendance Discussion: The Sequel

[jetsv2]

Y'know a ticket agreement is a contract to buy tickets, right? You already agreed to pay that last year when you signed the ticket agreement. You're not supposed to be able to unilaterally exit a contract.

They took $1000 deposits from me when I purchased the tickets and held that money for 9 years, I sent 1 email asking if there was any way to get out a year early and the only response from my ticket rep was that they would take my deposit and then sue me for the rest of the money.

I just asked a question, and that was the response. Never got another email from my ticket rep until the day I selected not to renew after the next season and they wanted to know why. I reminded them that the last thing they said to me was that they were going to sue me and never heard from them again.

If you think that's the way to treat somebody who had at that point paid them more than $60,000 then you really don't understand customer service.

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

Has True North ever disclosed the jets losses/profits on a year to year basis?

 

[White Out 902]

They took $1000 deposits from me when I purchased the tickets and held that money for 9 years, I sent 1 email asking if there was any way to get out a year early and the only response from my ticket rep was that they would take my deposit and then sue me for the rest of the money.

I just asked a question, and that was the response. Never got another email from my ticket rep until the day I selected not to renew after the next season and they wanted to know why. I reminded them that the last thing they said to me was that they were going to sue me and never heard from them again.

If you think that's the way to treat somebody who had at that point paid them more than $60,000 then you really don't understand customer service.

Assuming that you left nothing out and that's basically just how that went that's a really good example of how not to make a long-term relationship with someone. f*** you pay me is not how you talk to customers. They could have just said hey is there anything we can do to help you sorry we're not able to let you out of your contract but etc etc

 

[gojetsgo]

It doesn't matter. Someone might decide to go to two bomber games instead of one Jet game for the same amount of money. Someone might decide to buy a hundred dollar ticket to sit at the 10 - 20 yard line at a bomber game or pay that same hundred dollar ticket for an upper deck ticket between the blue lines at a Jet game etc etc.

If someone enjoys both the CFL and the NHL and has a limited discretionary budget, they may very well decide to go with the team that has been the best in their respective league the past 3 years....versus the team that appears to be treading water the past 3 - 4 seasons.

it does matter, it's far easier for the bombers to sell out in a far easier league with less games at cheaper prices... and it's way easier to build a winning team in the cfl then it is in the nhl

 

[White Out 902]

it does matter, it's far easier for the bombers to sell out in a far easier league with less games at cheaper prices... and it's way easier to build a winning team in the cfl then it is in the nhl

How's the attendance at Edmonton in Calgary? Montreal? Toronto? Shit even regina. Basically how is the attendance in the CFL anywhere but Winnipeg right now?

 

[gojetsgo]

How's the attendance at Edmonton in Calgary? Montreal? Toronto? Shit even regina. Basically how is the attendance in the CFL anywhere but Winnipeg right now?

and how would it be had the bombers not been the best team in the league the past 4 years?

 

[White Out 902]

and how would it be had the bombers not been the best team in the league the past 4 years?

bomber attendance was respectable even during the dark years.

 

[None]

Has True North ever disclosed the jets losses/profits on a year to year basis?

They gave a dollar figure for the COVID restricted seasons with no/limited crowds during the business meeting earlier this year. I want to say they said 60 million in losses but I don't remember so take that with a grain of salt.
They presented a bunch of numbers showing that Winnipeg's business community really doesn't support the Jets.

 

[tbcwpg]

When I think about all the Goodwill that true north had and the buzz and excitement the Jets had. They actually kind of makes me sad. I don't blame ownership for all this I think there's obviously some financial hardship that people are going through and I think a lot of people are just fed up with the team not doing very well. I have a very complicated thoughts on this that I don't think I could really Express fully by talking to my phone like this. I think if I had to measure it up something like 50% to the blame would go to ownership. I hear a lot of stories about how ownership treats our season ticket holders like shit and when you see all the things that American teams do for their season ticket holders it's hard not to shake your head a little bit.

I also am amazed at how little things like the fact that at the airport there's no giant Winnipeg Jets advertisement there by the carousel anymore. We don't have Sports Talk Radio we don't have post game talk radio. I worry that the team is slipping out of the consciousness of the city a little bit. You can't just build that kind of excitement and rapport with your fan base overnight. Believe me it's so much easier to retain a customer than to make a new one. And it breaks my heart to see True North having broken so many relationships. Just look at the Forum that we're on right now there's so little activity compared to what used to be.

But the end of the day there has to be some accountability from us as the customers too. Either we want the NHL or we don't. I remember what it was like to lose the first Jets and it was absolutely heartbreaking and devastating to the city. For the people that don't go anymore because they don't want to support a team and that's the more successful on the ice I got to tell you, that's a sure-fire recipe to have the team be gone. People who can't afford to go anymore that's one thing and I'm not shitting on those people. But I do question folks that don't want to spend their money because they don't think the team is good enough for going in right direction. You can't base your decision to buy tickets and support the team based on what's happening on the ice, we just don't have enough population to get away with that.

And then of course there is things like covid and inflation and that seems to be hitting some markets more than others. Buffalo has shit attendance tonight but let's be real Buffalo hasn't had a good hockey team since, what Hasek? And no one is ever going to consider Buffalo as a candidate for relocation. The sad fact is that people are going point to us and they are going to shit on us and right now I can see it coming from a mile away. Philly has no problem with attendance tonight, Nashville.

I think it's a shame and I don't really have a lot of solutions, I'm really worried that we're way too far down the track already. As I said before in this rambling post of mine, it's incredibly easy to lose a customer and very difficult to get them back. True north and a lot of Canadian owners have taken their customers for granted and treated them as if they are a given or they were entitled to our money. We didn't sell out game one on a Saturday night, and there's 4,000 empty seats in game 2. At this point every Jet fan should be deeply concerned about the commitment of our city to our team. Ownership absolutely owns a massive part of this and I'm willing to give them the lion share of blame. But we have to ask ourselves do we want the NHL or not?

And this is to say nothing about our Blue Bombers who are very successful organization who treat their fans well and have a very good game to experience, but are playing in a league that people keep saying is dying too. The idea that in 10 years from now there is a not horribly unrealistic chance that the bombers and jets won't exist anymore kind of makes me want to vomit.

Some good points but I'd push back on a couple of things.

I agree that the season ticket reps are a bad representation of the ownership group and the team. They could do a little bit more for STHs, sure, but I don't think the number of people not renewing because they aren't getting a couple perks is that significant. The reality is if the team was good, the perks don't matter.

I think there is still post game radio on CJOB? I'm not sure about call ins but there is some discussion there.

You're 100% right on the market size though. Philly can be the worst team and outdraw the Jets because they're so much bigger.

The team isn't going to relocate, but it's clear that ownership is right that selling players prematurely and rebuilding for years and years is less likely to fill the seats than a winning product. Money is hard for people right now, they'll need to string some wins together to bring attendance back.

Don't agree with the Bombers comparison, it's cheaper, it's the summer, they're really good.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

It is worth noting the Winnipeg Symphony Orchestra had a $1.3 million deficit for the 2022/23 season and a $1 million decrease in ticket revenues from pre-Covid numbers (2018-19 or 2019-20). That is a very significant decline in revenues.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/deficit-not-a-swansong-for-wso-1.6992032#:~:text=The%20Winnipeg%20Symphony%20Orchestra%20says%20it's%20in%20%22the%20eye%20of,reserve%20fund%2C%20it%20was%20offset.

Meanwhile the Royal Winnipeg Ballet suffered a $500,000.

Inflation has really taken a toll...

 

[gojetsgo]

bomber attendance was respectable even during the dark years.

now put bomber tickets at the same price as jets during those years... you still think they would be respectable? also add 73 games to the mix

 

[White Out 902]

now put bomber tickets at the same price as jets during those years... you still think they would be respectable?

Would people pay NHL prices for a CFL game? No. And this is a silly question.

 

[gojetsgo]

Would people pay NHL prices for a CFL game? No. And this is a silly question.

exactly.. it's far more affordable to go to bomber games then it is to go to jets games... which is why people shouldn't try to compare the bombers attendance to the jets....

 

[Zippity]

 

[sipowicz]

YIKES!!

In fairness Calgary is not even close to selling out wither, and neither is Edmonton. However, Calgary also has 4,000 extra seats which are all up in the nosebleeds. I am not sure if Edmonton has an excuse, as they just built an 18,000 seat arena not too long ago, and have a playoff contender, with two of the best player in the league.

Ottawa has also done poorly since 2018 in terms of attendance. My honest belief is that due to the Canadian dollar dropping to 0.75 US, as well as the salary cap nearly doubling since the Jets returned in 2011, the NHL has priced itself out of the Winnipeg market.

Our only saving grace will be to get large Winnipeg corporations to gobble up 50% of tickets. Otherwise, the Jets may not last past 2030.

Calgary, Edmonton and Ottawa are all around 1.5 M in their metro’s, Winnipegs 850K can’t compete when 1/2 the people living here can’t even afford to pay attention!

Bottom line, the NHL and True Norf have priced themselves right out of this market!

 

[The Blue Baron]

bomber attendance was respectable even during the dark years.

Correct we averaged easily 23-24,000 during the lean years Which was pretty darn good.

What is that suppose to mean? They move back to Atlanta?

 

[The Blue Baron]

It is worth noting the Winnipeg Symphony Orchestra had a $1.3 million deficit for the 2022/23 season and a $1 million decrease in ticket revenues from pre-Covid numbers (2018-19 or 2019-20). That is a very significant decline in revenues.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/deficit-not-a-swansong-for-wso-1.6992032#:~:text=The%20Winnipeg%20Symphony%20Orchestra%20says%20it's%20in%20%22the%20eye%20of,reserve%20fund%2C%20it%20was%20offset.

Meanwhile the Royal Winnipeg Ballet suffered a $500,000.

Inflation has really taken a toll...

Except for the Blue Bombers

 

[snowkiddin]

I'm reminded of all the tonedeaf responses that the Jets PR has put out over the years when they've been asked about gameday experience improvements. You'd think they'd have learned not to put their feet in their mouths by now but the marketing drive last year proved they haven't learned a single thing.

Anyone remember in like 2013(?) when Scott Brown, the director of communications was asked about on-ice projection? His blithe response was that the Jets basically didn't need to do anything to keep fans, that the on-ice product was enough. The casual indifference to a suggestion of improving the product should've been appalling to anyone and it was coming from the guy paid to specifically not put his foot in his mouth when representing the team's views.

Admittedly petty, but I still harbour some resentment from them axing Helmet Pardy, and I didn’t even have tickets to that game.

It was just a fun idea that could’ve been a great moment in Jets fandom lore and they put the kibosh down because …. well, why?

 

[jetsv2]

Assuming that you left nothing out and that's basically just how that went that's a really good example of how not to make a long-term relationship with someone. f*** you pay me is not how you talk to customers. They could have just said hey is there anything we can do to help you sorry we're not able to let you out of your contract but etc etc

Id have to go back and see if I still have the emails to get the word for word question but the question I asked was is there any way to forfeit our deposit and not buy the last year of tickets. There was nothing more than that.

The response I recieved was that if I did not purchase the last year they would take my deposit money and then take me to court to recover the amount of the full season.

The tone and language of the email was harsher than that and the word damages was used several times. It was pretty clearly a pre prepared statement from a lawyer.

I never heard another word from my ticket rep until the day after I declined to renew for another 3 year commitment.

BTW in the 9 years I had tickets, I had 4 different ticket reps. The first was great to deal with but 2 and 3 never responded to me on multiple occasions when I reached out with questions, I was never able to actually contact either of them and only lasted a year each. The 4th one I contacted twice and the 2nd time was when I was told I would be sued. Their season ticket relations team has been a mess since day one.

 

[jetsmooseice]

exactly.. it's far more affordable to go to bomber games then it is to go to jets games... which is why people shouldn't try to compare the bombers attendance to the jets....

The price points aren't exactly the same but they are roughly comparable. Bombers are what, $30-$180, Jets are what, $66-$260 for game day walk ups?

Obviously there's a huge difference in season ticket prices given the significantly higher number of hockey games. But on a per game basis there's not that much of a difference.

I attend damn near every sports team in town and I can confidently say that a Bomber game delivers more entertainment for the money than a Jets game does, at least for the moment.

 

[snowkiddin]

Correct we averaged easily 23-24,000 during the lean years Which was pretty darn good.


What is that suppose to mean? They move back to Atlanta?

Pretty sure it’s just an ad for an airline that’s amusing with its placement.

 

[None]

Admittedly petty, but I still harbour some resentment from them axing Helmet Pardy, and I didn’t even have tickets to that game.

It was just a fun idea that could’ve been a great moment in Jets fandom lore and they put the kibosh down because …. well, why?

It's never been hard to disagree with the assertion that True North would rather have fans sit on their hands for 3 hours than actually do anything during games. The following is a quote from a CBC article related to the planned helmet Pardy:

Chipman reiterated he believes the team has “the best fans in the entire National Hockey League” but qualified that with a warning about professionalism and respect for the game. He said he hopes fans won’t try to get helmets into Thursday’s game.

"We could use the word, 'strongly discourage' [or] 'really wish you wouldn't,' but I don't think there's any -- I just don't think there's any margin for error on this one," said Chipman. "We're just not going to permit it tomorrow night."

I don't think they hid behind league policy at the time because I'm pretty sure I've seen kids decked out in full goalie gear at games, helmet and all. I guess they should disallow children under a certain size entirely though because someone determined (deranged?) enough could pick a kid up and start swinging the kid at people

 

[snowkiddin]

The price points aren't exactly the same but they are roughly comparable. Bombers are what, $30-$180, Jets are what, $66-$260 for game day walk ups?

Obviously there's a huge difference in season ticket prices given the significantly higher number of hockey games. But on a per game basis there's not that much of a difference.

I attend damn near every sports team in town and I can confidently say that a Bomber game delivers more entertainment for the money than a Jets game does, at least for the moment.

Just sat row 3 against the Kings and my tickets were $120 each on a resale site. My Bomber season tickets are $110 walk-up whenever I buy an extra ticket in my section to bring someone and I sit near the 10-20 yard line.

Jets and Bombers walk-up prices are more comparable than I realized.

You’re always gonna see pricier tix for games against the Leafs, Habs, Bedard, etc. but “less desirable” Jets games are actually getting to be comparable.

Even now I see a $44 seat in the upper bowl for the Vegas game on Ticketmaster. I’m pretty sure the cheapest Bombers tickets are $33 now.

I do agree the scarcity of Bomber games vs Jets games obviously has some impact but the Bombers are also filling up a stadium more than twice the size of CLC.

 

[snowkiddin]

I attend damn near every sports team in town and I can confidently say that a Bomber game delivers more entertainment for the money than a Jets game does, at least for the moment.

Also, you bring up a good point here.

I think there’s something to be said for game day experience/presentation.

I’m no basketball guru, but I had an absolute blast at Sea Bears games last season because the atmosphere and overall experience was top notch. Now admittedly the atmosphere may hamper a bit as the novelty wears off but it’s still a damn good time at a great price. I’m probably gonna get season tickets this season because it’s such a good time.

Bombers games also have a fun atmosphere in the stadium. And I like Goldeyes games because it’s just relaxing to chill at the ballpark on a warm summer evening.

What do the Jets offer other than the game? I attend because I’m a hockey nerd who spends all his time following the game and because I just adore the sport and the Jets, but the atmosphere just doesn’t feel the same as it used to in the rink anymore and the value for you what pay doesn’t feel like it compares well to the other three teams that I regularly attend.

 

[snowkiddin]

It's never been hard to disagree with the assertion that True North would rather have fans sit on their hands for 3 hours than actually do anything during games.

Too many double negatives, this confused me

Are you saying it’s difficult to agree with that assertion? Because I think it’s easy to agree with