Thoughts on Crosby's completely cherry-picked best stretch of hockey

[VanIslander]

Crosby is in the same room as Lemieux and Orr... that should be a compliment all around. Nurse, get in here STAT!

 

[DitchMarner]

To be very clear:

Gordie Howe surpassed Orr's career games played total in 1957 and since won 3 Hart trophies, 8-time THEREAFTER AGAIN finalist. In 1957.

His hockey EXCELLENCE was twice as long, his hockey pro career (WHA big money; think Saudi golf): three times as long as Orr!

9 & 99 are in a different zip code.

That's a better way to put it. He was elite a lot longer. Both were consistently elite in their primes.

 

[VanIslander]

Yeah, ... true. K.

Every name mentioned around here is ELITE!

 

[Letsdothis]

Crosby had some relatively underwhelming playoff showings at his peak. One could say that he had a chance to show that his short spurts of regular season ppg dominance were legitimate by replicating that level in the playoffs, but failing to dominate the big stage brings in question whether it was just a small sample size confusing things rather than Crosby reaching a new level of play in those years.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Crosby had some relatively underwhelming playoff showings at his peak. One could say that he had a chance to show that his short spurts of regular season ppg dominance were legitimate by replicating that level in the playoffs, but failing to dominate the big stage brings in question whether it was just a small sample size confusing things rather than Crosby reaching a new level of play in those years.

Did he? Is this going to be like 2 and 3 game nits here?

I've seen every single playoff game of his career, most of them multiple times. If he wasn't the best player in every playoffs, he was right there.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Did he? Is this going to be like 2 and 3 game nits here?

I've seen every single playoff game of his career, most of them multiple times. If he wasn't the best player in every playoffs, he was right there.

Crosby from 2010-15 definitely struggled some
Playoff rounds during his peak years. I don’t think he gets a ton of flack due to already winning the cup with a great post season, and obviously the injuries he was dealing with.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Crosby from 2010-15 definitely struggled some
Playoff rounds during his peak years. I don’t think he gets a ton of flack due to already winning the cup with a great post season, and obviously the injuries he was dealing with.

He definitely didn't. I'm traveling so I'm not gonna look at numbers and all that. But...

2010 vs Ottawa. He absolutely dominated. He was likely responsible for about 120% of the team's offense.

Crosby continued his outstanding play but the team ended up getting Halak'd. But more than that, we really could have used a decent game out of Fleury that series. Crosby got us up in the series, but we lost it. Obviously, you can always want more no matter the situation. But he was buzzing in that series and the finish from everyone disappeared. That's life after winning 8 of the last 9 series.

2011: DNP

2012: Was the worst series in NHL history. I assume Crosby was productive because of the wide open style, to say the least. But no one deserves any credit for that series except for Giroux.

2013: The Penguins MVP ballot through two rounds this year for me was:
1. Paul Martin
2. Crosby
3. Pascal Dupuis

Famously, the team was shutdown by Claude Julien. Killing headmanning the puck for good. That was one of the more blatant "out-coaching" losses that I have seen. But if you want to ding Crosby for not breaking character, I can't fight it.

2014: Yeah, all right fair enough. First full season in a while + Olympics? I don't know what happened, but this was his most pedestrian looking run. I think he was also playing with an AHLer after Dupuis got hurt. So, he had no support for his poor-for-his-standards run.

2015: Pens hired Mr. Peanut to bring some fundamental defense in. So the Pens were actually a defensive team for the first time since Therrien. But Crosby was back to being the best player on the team. That series was much closer than 4-1 indicated. Malkin was hurt I think, and did nothing. So any goals the Pens scored seemed to be generated through Sid.

Not sure what the bar is, but he hardly ever let us down...

 

[GreatGonzo]

He definitely didn't. I'm traveling so I'm not gonna look at numbers and all that. But...

2010 vs Ottawa. He absolutely dominated. He was likely responsible for about 120% of the team's offense.

Crosby continued his outstanding play but the team ended up getting Halak'd. But more than that, we really could have used a decent game out of Fleury that series. Crosby got us up in the series, but we lost it. Obviously, you can always want more no matter the situation. But he was buzzing in that series and the finish from everyone disappeared. That's life after winning 8 of the last 9 series.

2011: DNP

2012: Was the worst series in NHL history. I assume Crosby was productive because of the wide open style, to say the least. But no one deserves any credit for that series except for Giroux.

2013: The Penguins MVP ballot through two rounds this year for me was:
1. Paul Martin
2. Crosby
3. Pascal Dupuis

Famously, the team was shutdown by Claude Julien. Killing headmanning the puck for good. That was one of the more blatant "out-coaching" losses that I have seen. But if you want to ding Crosby for not breaking character, I can't fight it.

2014: Yeah, all right fair enough. First full season in a while + Olympics? I don't know what happened, but this was his most pedestrian looking run. I think he was also playing with an AHLer after Dupuis got hurt. So, he had no support for his poor-for-his-standards run.

2015: Pens hired Mr. Peanut to bring some fundamental defense in. So the Pens were actually a defensive team for the first time since Therrien. But Crosby was back to being the best player on the team. That series was much closer than 4-1 indicated. Malkin was hurt I think, and did nothing. So any goals the Pens scored seemed to be generated through Sid.

Not sure what the bar is, but he hardly ever let us down...

To say “he definitely didnt” and then proceed to cherry pick various playoffs where he was their “best” but then ignore the various ones where he wasn’t up to his standards.

I also love the whole idea that it wasn’t Crosbys problem, it was the TEAM…but let’s break it down shall we?

2010: Crosby killed Ottawa, only to then put up 5 points in 7 games(1 goal) with a -1. He also was a no show for game 7.

2012: absolutely, Crosby was putting up the points but most came early in the series. He was a no show in games 5 and 6.

2013: so we are going to ignore the third round? 0 points in 4 games and a -2. Saying he was the clear cut MVP is strange. Malkin had 11 points in the first round, Letang at 10
In the second. Crosby had a lot of help.

2014: all I read was more excuses as to why Crosby couldn’t compete. Crazy how when it’s Crosby, there always seems to be some reasoning as to why he didn’t perform well…the dude completely flopped after a “dominant” regular season.

2015: so once again, not at all on Crosby, it was the teams fault. Interesting.

As you can see, during crosbys peak years. He didn’t always follow it up in the post season. But in terms of “where’s the bar.” I mean he’s the best player and playoff performer of his generation and arguably a top 5 player of all time, right? Those are pretty high standards to have, which makes it strange when a lot of his fans almost shrug and wave it off when it doesn’t play up to that standard.

 

[Michael Farkas]

I don't think I ignored or cherry picked anything? I hit every series right? Except 2014, where I said he stunk.

Sorry that I tried to guess why he was bad. Or provide any tactical detail about the circumstances.

If you just wanted to sort the game logs in ascending order and pick the shifts he didn't score or whatever (which is not cherry picking?) then you don't need a forum to discuss anything, right?

 

[GreatGonzo]

I don't think I ignored or cherry picked anything? I hit every series right? Except 2014, where I said he stunk.

Sorry that I tried to guess why he was bad. Or provide any tactical detail about the circumstances.

If you just wanted to sort the game logs in ascending order and pick the shifts he didn't score or whatever (which is not cherry picking?) then you don't need a forum to discuss anything, right?

You started by saying “he definitely didn’t.” And then I showed you every year outside of 2011 where he in fact, did.

It could be as simple as he couldn’t rise to the occasion, or that he simply wasn’t good enough that game/series. It doesn’t have to always be someone else’s fault or doing. Funny how when Crosby wins, he gets a bulk of the glory…when his team loses, he seems to be not in the talk as to why they lost. It was the coaches, no secondary scoring, this player was injured, out coached.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Well, what you said wasn't the case. He was only not among the best players on the team in 2014...and that's accounting for his whole career not just these six series that you like or whatever.

You didn't show me anything. And now you're upset by context.

So, let me take all that back.

2010 = best or near best player
2011 = N/A
2012 = best or near best player
2013 = our best player
2014 = not our best player
2015 = best or near best player

When the Pens win, Crosby is also our best or near best player.

In general, Crosby is not responsible for the Pens losing. In general, he is responsible for the Pens winning. Or was highly, highly impactful.

Basically, you nailed it. He's one of the best players ever and one of the best playoff players ever. And he consistently showed that.

Even if one time he hit the post in a game 7 and didn't score or whatever. It happens. I'm not mad at McDavid for willing that dog **** roster to within a goal of the Cup either because........ why would I be?

 

[GreatGonzo]

Well, what you said wasn't the case. He was only not among the best players on the team in 2014...and that's accounting for his whole career not just these six series that you like or whatever.

You didn't show me anything. And now you're upset by context.

So, let me take all that back.

2010 = best or near best player
2011 = N/A
2012 = best or near best player
2013 = our best player
2014 = not our best player
2015 = best or near best player

When the Pens win, Crosby is also our best or near best player.

In general, Crosby is not responsible for the Pens losing. In general, he is responsible for the Pens winning. Or was highly, highly impactful.

Basically, you nailed it. He's one of the best players ever and one of the best playoff players ever. And he consistently showed that.

Even if one time he hit the post in a game 7 and didn't score or whatever. It happens. I'm not mad at McDavid for willing that dog **** roster to within a goal of the Cup either because........ why would I be?

that must be nice basically, he gets no blame or anything for HIS performance….even when he wasn’t being impactful.

I’m talking about his peak years, where his playoffs really do fall off, especially compared to play in the regular season.

Well you obviously have common sense. Many people can’t or refuse to think that way. It’s been all McDavids fault for the most part.

 

[Matsun]

Well, what you said wasn't the case. He was only not among the best players on the team in 2014...and that's accounting for his whole career not just these six series that you like or whatever.

You didn't show me anything. And now you're upset by context.

So, let me take all that back.

2010 = best or near best player
2011 = N/A
2012 = best or near best player
2013 = our best player
2014 = not our best player
2015 = best or near best player

When the Pens win, Crosby is also our best or near best player.

In general, Crosby is not responsible for the Pens losing. In general, he is responsible for the Pens winning. Or was highly, highly impactful.

Basically, you nailed it. He's one of the best players ever and one of the best playoff players ever. And he consistently showed that.

Even if one time he hit the post in a game 7 and didn't score or whatever. It happens. I'm not mad at McDavid for willing that dog **** roster to within a goal of the Cup either because........ why would I be?

I disagree with Crosby being the best in 2013. That Islander series was exactly the same as the Flyer series before we swapped Fleury for Vokoun who was then awesome the entire playoffs including Boston.

 

[Michael Farkas]

I don't agree. The style of the game vs poor goaltending is not the same. Vokoun, who has his own issues, came and mopped up the series easily.

I can't help you GG, though, he basically always drove this team. So when they prevail, it's because of him. It's not that complex, ya know? Like...

If Crosby gets 10 pts in 6 games and the Penguins give up 9 goals in the series. Crosby is great because he led them.

If Crosby gets 10 pts in 6 games and the Penguins give up 19 goals in the series. Crosby loses, but is it really on him? If the other situation isn't a negative.

That's the thing about assigning individual players blame based on stats alone. Ovechkin always lost in the playoffs. He always lost by 1 to New York. By that logic Ovechkin stinks in the playoffs.

But...it's beyond that. Ovechkin had no other center that could carry. Then he got Kuznetsov. And Ovechkin needed someone that could be a NZ carrier. It's about process. Results are so tight in a 6.to 12 or 17 game situation. A single point can change a reputation.

 

[GreatGonzo]

I don't agree. The style of the game vs poor goaltending is not the same. Vokoun, who has his own issues, came and mopped up the series easily.

I can't help you GG, though, he basically always drove this team. So when they prevail, it's because of him. It's not that complex, ya know? Like...

If Crosby gets 10 pts in 6 games and the Penguins give up 9 goals in the series. Crosby is great because he led them.

If Crosby gets 10 pts in 6 games and the Penguins give up 19 goals in the series. Crosby loses, but is it really on him? If the other situation isn't a negative.

That's the thing about assigning individual players blame based on stats alone. Ovechkin always lost in the playoffs. He always lost by 1 to New York. By that logic Ovechkin stinks in the playoffs.

But...it's beyond that. Ovechkin had no other center that could carry. Then he got Kuznetsov. And Ovechkin needed someone that could be a NZ carrier. It's about process. Results are so tight in a 6.to 12 or 17 game situation. A single point can change a reputation.

Again, Crosby always gets the glory for being the “leader” and gets no flack when he doesn’t perform(or his team) but instead he gets excuse after excuse. Just say that

If Crosby put up 10 points in 6, and they win. He gets all the credit for “leading” them, especially offensively. If Crosby had 3 points in 6 games(let’s say zero goals), and they won…he would still get the credit, and many will point to some magical “defense” that he possessed. But let’s say Crosby puts up 3 points in 6 games and they lose? Crosby gets the benefit of the doubt while others get blamed.

And Ovechkin was seen as a choker because of it. Not a real leader, not good enough to LEAD a team. That was literally the consensus surrounding Ovechkin. He got blame every time and all the time the Caps didn’t win, I don’t see how that’s debatable unless you have been living under a rock from 2009-2018.

So we are back to the simple fact that when it comes to Crosby, many have issues directing ANY blame towards him, see @daver for example.

 

[daver]

Crosby had some relatively underwhelming playoff showings at his peak. One could say that he had a chance to show that his short spurts of regular season ppg dominance were legitimate by replicating that level in the playoffs, but failing to dominate the big stage brings in question whether it was just a small sample size confusing things rather than Crosby reaching a new level of play in those years.

A 250 game stretch is a short spurt?

 

[daver]

Added Forsberg into the OP.