Think JD & Jarmo are in trouble? Porty doesn't sound that way

[Forepar]

I think a lot of the reason of the teams turn around is the same as the meltdown in the beginning.....goaltending.

Agreed, but that is a function of:

A. Korpi being hot (hopefully he remains consistent and not figured about by NHL shooters);

B. Bob being ice-cold to start the year (he was better prior to injury);

C. the D being putrid and defense by forwards also putrid at the beginning of the season;

D. the D personnel being better (and slotted properly) after the Seth-Joey trade; and

E. the entire group having better focus on keeping the puck out of our net0 (whether you like Torts' style or not, and how much we will miss Joey's talent in the future in putting the puck in the other teams' net subject to debate).

 

[NotWendell]

Agreed, but that is a function of:

A. Korpi being hot (hopefully he remains consistent and not figured about by NHL shooters);

B. Bob being ice-cold to start the year (he was better prior to injury);

C. the D being putrid and defense by forwards also putrid at the beginning of the season;

D. the D personnel being better (and slotted properly) after the Seth-Joey trade; and

E. the entire group having better focus on keeping the puck out of our net0 (whether you like Torts' style or not, and how much we will miss Joey's talent in the future in putting the puck in the other teams' net subject to debate).

Only 3 teams have allowed more goals than the CBJ. Most of us expected the defense to be suspect at best. The goaltending was an unpleasant surprise (except that Korpi was a pleasant surprise!) We give up an average of 3 goals a game, but we don't have the firepower to overcome that.

I suspect our GA is MUCH better over the past 20 games than it was in the first 44, but I don't know how to get that data out of NHL.com yet.

 

[major major]

Middling top 6 center? Which one? Johansen? Brassard? Carter? They're all top centers on other teams but were seen as middling here. I sense a pattern...

I was saying it was biased to call Joey a middling C, just like it's biased to call Jones a third pair D. I reject both characterizations.

 

[major major]

Only 3 teams have allowed more goals than the CBJ. Most of us expected the defense to be suspect at best. The goaltending was an unpleasant surprise (except that Korpi was a pleasant surprise!) We give up an average of 3 goals a game, but we don't have the firepower to overcome that.

I suspect our GA is MUCH better over the past 20 games than it was in the first 44, but I don't know how to get that data out of NHL.com yet.

Simple. Go to scores and add them up. Just kidding that's really a pain.
It's too bad, I'd love to have that kind of splits data too.

 

[WannabeFinn]

Simple. Go to scores and add them up. Just kidding that's really a pain.
It's too bad, I'd love to have that kind of splits data too.

Adding goal totals from 20 games is that much of a pain?

 

[EspenK]

I calculated 2.7 trying to adjust for shootouts. So 10% better than overall.
I thought it would have been a bit lower.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Any exercise in determining offense with/without Johansen would have to go back to the beginning of the 2013-14 season to be valid.

This season in Columbus was an aberration for him.

 

[major major]

Any exercise in determining offense with/without Johansen would have to go back to the beginning of the 2013-14 season to be valid.

This season in Columbus was an aberration for him.

You'll need a good sample size on either side of it.
The post trade first line has scored at a higher rate than in any of Joey's full seasons. Perhaps they were offended by your criticism?

 

[db2011]

Let's dispel with this fiction that DSL doesn't know what he's doing. He knows exactly what he's doing.

Credit where it's due. Bravo!

 

[db2011]

Any exercise in determining offense with/without Johansen would have to go back to the beginning of the 2013-14 season to be valid.

This season in Columbus was an aberration for him.

I don't think "aberration" is a useful term for Joey. There's no established stat line to compare against.

16th in OA scoring as a 22 YO was sublime. But it was possibly the aberration.

And I gotta say, based on returns, the Joey-Jones trade probably extends JK's leash rather than restricts it.

In general, though, I've been thinking lately that this must be a tough team to GM. How the hell do you know what you have?? As soon as they're good, they start to suck (0-8); as soon as they suck they start to tear it up.

Seriously, WTF with these guys

 

[db2011]

Agreed, but that is a function of:

A. Korpi being hot (hopefully he remains consistent and not figured about by NHL shooters);

B. Bob being ice-cold to start the year (he was better prior to injury);

C. the D being putrid and defense by forwards also putrid at the beginning of the season;

D. the D personnel being better (and slotted properly) after the Seth-Joey trade; and

E. the entire group having better focus on keeping the puck out of our net0 (whether you like Torts' style or not, and how much we will miss Joey's talent in the future in putting the puck in the other teams' net subject to debate).

I'm not sure how much Korpisalo is hot and how much Korpisalo is just good

 

[EspenK]

I don't think "aberration" is a useful term for Joey. There's no established stat line to compare against.

16th in OA scoring as a 22 YO was sublime. But it was possibly the aberration.

And I gotta say, based on returns, the Joey-Jones trade probably extends JK's leash rather than restricts it.

In general, though, I've been thinking lately that this must be a tough team to GM. How the hell do you know what you have?? As soon as they're good, they start to suck (0-8); as soon as they suck they start to tear it up.

Seriously, WTF with these guys

I agree. Part of it has to be mental. They lose the first 2 games next year look out. They will start to hear echoes (do hockey guys hear footsteps?) of seasons past. Part of it has to be we win a lot on effort and playing all out. I've mentioned this before but to win that way over the course of a season is tough. Part of it is missing a good 4th line and until Jones arrived a potential #1 D; now we lack the elite #1 C although I"m not sure we had one before. Inconsistent goal tending from an injury prone goalie who makes 7.4 mill a year.

 

[ReggieRed]

I agree. Part of it has to be mental. They lose the first 2 games next year look out. They will start to hear echoes (do hockey guys hear footsteps?) of seasons past.

JD should be lobbying the NHL hard starting right now to open the 2016-2017 with a home and home vs. the Leafs...first game in NWA of course

 

[JacketsDavid]

I agree. Part of it has to be mental. They lose the first 2 games next year look out. They will start to hear echoes (do hockey guys hear footsteps?) of seasons past. Part of it has to be we win a lot on effort and playing all out. I've mentioned this before but to win that way over the course of a season is tough. Part of it is missing a good 4th line and until Jones arrived a potential #1 D; now we lack the elite #1 C although I"m not sure we had one before. Inconsistent goal tending from an injury prone goalie who makes 7.4 mill a year.

Well lot of concerns next season:
1. Goaltending - Will Bob be healthy? Will other teams find a book on Joonas? Interesting thing to me is he does look solid - it's not like Mason where it was readily apparent that high on glove side was big weakness.
2. Can we count on two top pair d-men who are both very young. These guys (Jones and Murray) will be very good someday. But can you count on the for entire season as top pair next year?
3. Too many bad contracts will again likely leave us with a terrible 4th line. Losing Bourque helps, but still lot of bad contracts with Boll, Clarkson...
4. Do we have enough depth in middle - Dubi, Wenny, Wild Bill would likely be 2nd-4th line on a lot of teams but will be 1-3rd lines here.
5. We went from having so many injuries this year to being relatively healthy (outside of Bob). Do we have enough depth if injuries pop up again?
6 Torts - When does the team sour on him? Much like Hitch in the past it seems most teams have a 2-3 year shelf life with Torts - will the team follow him next season? And if the team sours on him what does management/ownership do?

Granted a lot of plusses:
1. Jones and Murray gives us immense potential on the blue line (as well as Werenerski).
2. Pretty deep at wing when you're captain can be forced to 3rd line.
3. Appears as though there is some talent in system.
4. Joonas suddenly changes the goalie situation to the point where we could consider trading Bob (if he proves healthy). If nothing else everyone feels much more confident when Bob gets hurt.
5. Torts can get a lot out of what he has - much like Hitch he has a system and as long as team believes in it he can get a lot out of them.

 

[blahblah]

6 Torts - When does the team sour on him? Much like Hitch in the past it seems most teams have a 2-3 year shelf life with Torts - will the team follow him next season? And if the team sours on him what does management/ownership do?

Mmmm...

Torts spent most of 7 seasons with Tampa and 5 with the Rangers. Hitch has never been with a team less than 4 partial seasons; 7 with Dallas and now 5 and running with the Blues.

Most head coaches don't make it past 5 seasons,

To answer your question, that's easy they can him and hire someone else. You didn't add "ownership or JD do with JK".

 

[Mayor Bee]

What. Who thinks that? I mean, besides my family.


And my friends.


And my co-workers.


Nevermind. Don't answer that.

Don't forget about all of us!

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Don't forget about all of us!

I told you not to answer that!

 

[JacketsDavid]

Mmmm...

Torts spent most of 7 seasons with Tampa and 5 with the Rangers. Hitch has never been with a team less than 4 partial seasons; 7 with Dallas and now 5 and running with the Blues.

Most head coaches don't make it past 5 seasons,

To answer your question, that's easy they can him and hire someone else. You didn't add "ownership or JD do with JK".

Start with Torts - 5 full seasons in tampa, 3 full seasons in NYR, 0 full season in Vancouver. So draw whatever conclusion you want there as to his shelf life and how he may not be the best coach with today's players - don't get me wrong I like his style and like what he preaches (defense accountability) but players tire of that.

And choosing the players over a coach has been the CBJ way. I mean we average a coach every couple seasons.

 

[Mayor Bee]

I told you not to answer that!

 

[Light the Lamp]

Joey got himself traded. He was out of shape and "checked out." Most likely when when someone called him out in the locker room. I loved the Ryan Johansen of the past two seasons. But he is showing signs of a kid that has money and has prioritized other aspects of life over his job.

I think JD and Jarmo have done a decent job. The Horton contract was a huge mistake and set the team back, but they are building from the bottom up and that takes time.

"If you're not fired with enthusiasm, you'll be fired with enthusiasm" - Vince Lombardi

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I think JD and Jarmo have done a decent job. The Horton contract was a huge mistake and set the team back, but they are building from the bottom up and that takes time.

The Drake method, I believe.

 

[major major]

Well lot of concerns next season:
1. Goaltending - Will Bob be healthy? Will other teams find a book on Joonas? Interesting thing to me is he does look solid - it's not like Mason where it was readily apparent that high on glove side was big weakness.
2. Can we count on two top pair d-men who are both very young. These guys (Jones and Murray) will be very good someday. But can you count on the for entire season as top pair next year?
3. Too many bad contracts will again likely leave us with a terrible 4th line. Losing Bourque helps, but still lot of bad contracts with Boll, Clarkson...
4. Do we have enough depth in middle - Dubi, Wenny, Wild Bill would likely be 2nd-4th line on a lot of teams but will be 1-3rd lines here.
5. We went from having so many injuries this year to being relatively healthy (outside of Bob). Do we have enough depth if injuries pop up again?
6 Torts - When does the team sour on him? Much like Hitch in the past it seems most teams have a 2-3 year shelf life with Torts - will the team follow him next season? And if the team sours on him what does management/ownership do?

1. I think Bob-Korpi is an enviable duo. Most teams don't have that kind of backstop if their top goalie struggles.

2. Murray-Jones is as likely to be a solid top pair next year as most established top pairs are. In other words, they might stumble, but it's the same risk that Faulk and Brodie and other top D face.

3. 4th line shouldn't be that hard to fix, but I said the same thing last year, so...

4. It's something to watch for. I wasn't expecting it, but Dubi-Wenns-Wild Bill have played like, and scored like, a solid 1-2-3 since the big trade. And the club still has Foligno and Jenner as center insurance. So I wouldn't call it a depth issue. But there is a risk that none of these men are solid top line C's next year.

5. I think we can sustain long term injuries from any one player except Jones or Murray. That would kill us.

6. No idea. But Torts has cooled it.

 

[CBJx614]

FWIW, Weekes on On the Fly today before praising Korpisalo, he praised JK for staying pat after hiring Torts and letting him right the ship and not making a bunch of panicky moves.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I don't think "aberration" is a useful term for Joey. There's no established stat line to compare against.

16th in OA scoring as a 22 YO was sublime. But it was possibly the aberration.

And I gotta say, based on returns, the Joey-Jones trade probably extends JK's leash rather than restricts it.

In general, though, I've been thinking lately that this must be a tough team to GM. How the hell do you know what you have?? As soon as they're good, they start to suck (0-8); as soon as they suck they start to tear it up.

Seriously, WTF with these guys

63 points the previous year in addition to his 70 points last season. I'm very comfortable categorizing this season as an outlier for him.

The CBJ are just not a very good team top to bottom. I really don't think it's much more complex than that. No high end scoring, no top notch defensemen, nothing outstanding in goal. A formula for mediocrity.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

FWIW, Weekes on On the Fly today before praising Korpisalo, he praised JK for staying pat after hiring Torts and letting him right the ship and not making a bunch of panicky moves.

If 27-31 classifies as "righting the ship", then the ship is in deep trouble.