Rumor: Things Not Left Unsaid 3 - Flyers Rumors and Media Mentions: Never Ending Circles

[ponder719]

Flyers have to overpay!!!

No they don't, they just have to call up the rookies who are going to be those guys over the course of their career.

Then, the fourth line will be on rookie deals, and we can use the rest of the money somewhere it'll help.

But no, we have to pay PunchFace McCan'tSkate $1.75M to win one pointless fight out of every five.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Haha. Yeah. The Flyers don't HAVE to overpay, but they want to

 

[mr figgles]

Targeting 27/28 by finishing in the middle of the pack and drafting guys in the second half of the first round that won‘t make an impact until 2030, if ever.

Bold strategy.

 

[BernieParent]

This is why the path they choose will end up bearing no fruit. The Flyers way is a losing way. That is proven. The Wharton certificate grad has no fresh ideas or plan.

I would have some hope if they drafted Buium. Two consecutive drafts of a high-end talent falling to them. But since they have chosen the paths of "diamond in the rough" drafting along with trading/UFA signing to fill the most difficult positions while carrying among the highest cap hits in the league, their luck factor has to be off the charts.

 

[freakydallas13]

The idea that older versions of players not good enough to win a cup while we had an elite Giroux when they were young (Coots, Sanheim, Konecny) will be enough when they are old because of Michkov is hilarious to me.

Like "Sure the Flyers were eternally mediocre when these players were in their primes, but just imagine them in their early to mid 30s alongside Michkov!"

 

[deadhead]

Drysdale #6, Michkov #7, Couts #8, Tippett #10, York #14, Farabee #14, Sanheim #17, Poehling #20, TK #22, Foerster #23, Frost #27.

It's not like this roster is loaded with late round picks and waiver wire pickups.

 

[freakydallas13]

Drysdale #6, Michkov #7, Couts #8, Tippett #10, York #14, Farabee #14, Sanheim #17, Poehling #20, TK #22, Foerster #23, Frost #27.

It's not like this roster is loaded with late round picks and waiver wire pickups.

This means nothing, Hextall also collected a bunch of highly drafted players and his teams were eternally mediocre.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Drysdale #6, Michkov #7, Couts #8, Tippett #10, York #14, Farabee #14, Sanheim #17, Poehling #20, TK #22, Foerster #23, Frost #27.

It's not like this roster is loaded with late round picks and waiver wire pickups.

Other teams are shitting their pants.

Does any other team have that many 1st rd picks in their top 18?

 

[Boxscore]

I would have some hope if they drafted Buium. Two consecutive drafts of a high-end talent falling to them. But since they have chosen the paths of "diamond in the rough" drafting along with trading/UFA signing to fill the most difficult positions while carrying among the highest cap hits in the league, their luck factor has to be off the charts.

You're absolutely right. Drafting outside of the top 5 and still adding Michkov and Buium in consecutive drafts would have been a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to hit a grand slam. Of course, the Flyers just had to mess it up with their "smartest guys in the room" delusions.

Then they continue to hold onto and extend vets who will not be difference makers at the right time. Their entire cap will be sucked up by good-to-very-good players with enough left over to pay Michkov big money down the line. But there will be none left over to spend on elite talent... and their middle-of-the-road approach will guarantee they never draft an elite supporting cast for Michkov.

Forget about luck. Teams put themselves in the position to create their own luck. They can't get any luckier than having a potential 1D titan fall into their laps at 12. How did that work out? Sure, I guess in a magical orange universe, Luchanko, Foerster, and Bonk could turn into Joe Sakic, Owen Nolan, and Adam Foote but I'd give that a 0.00054% chance of happening.

The Flyers still tweak and construct their teams as they did from 1980 on. They have a couple star level players (but not elite, except for Lindros) and they surround them with hard-working, versatile, and safe players. Once in a blue moon, they'll have a player greatly exceed expectations like a young Tocchet or Giroux... but they're few and far between.

Sure, the Flyers will improve by default. They will inject a few hardworking players who elevate the compete level and make all the stepfords proud. In a couple of years, they might start winning a round or two in the playoffs for a while. But, unless Briere pulls a complete 180, Michkov will be wasted until he gets frustrated and requests a trade or is dealt as part of another "retool mission." Rinse, repeat.

 

[pit]

Drysdale #6, Michkov #7, Couts #8, Tippett #10, York #14, Farabee #14, Sanheim #17, Poehling #20, TK #22, Foerster #23, Frost #27.

It's not like this roster is loaded with late round picks and waiver wire pickups.

Could someone please remind me how many teams in the cap era have won the Cup without at least one top 5 pick on their roster?

 

[trostol]

i like how the argument is still, and this isn't fully a DH thing, is that rebuilding=tanking

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

No they don't, they just have to call up the rookies who are going to be those guys over the course of their career.

Then, the fourth line will be on rookie deals, and we can use the rest of the money somewhere it'll help.

But no, we have to pay PunchFace McCan'tSkate $1.75M to win one pointless fight out of every five.

Deslauriers is Rinaldo level bad, but with none of the entertainment factor Rinaldo brought in.

 

[Boxscore]

Could someone please remind me how many teams in the cap era have won the Cup without at least one top 5 pick on their roster?

I recently dug into this a bit. 13 of the last 16 Cups (81%) were won by teams who had multiple top picks. And 14 out of the 16 who went and lost (88%) also had multiple top picks. And, the 3 teams who did not draft multiple high superstars were...

1. Boston, who built their Cup pre-cap with Chara, Bergeron, Thomas, Krejci, Rask, etc.

2. Vegas, who exploited a flawed expansion draft scenario to expedite high-end depth and star power. Ironically, they didn't win a Cup until they had Eichel (2nd overall) and Pietrangelo (4th overall) as key pieces.

3. St. Louis, who pretty much went on a miracle run that consisted of lights-out goaltending. They did have Pietrangelo (4th overall) as their cornerstone on defense.

Now, look at the Flyers. They had a top 5 pick in Gauthier and traded him after he blossomed into one of the best players in all of college hockey. They drafted Michkov at 7 but I'll consider him the real "2nd overall pick." This past draft, they could have lucked into another top 5 pick based on reports but passed on Buium. And, even though they have a bunch of picks in next year's draft, they have put themselves in a situation to draft outside of the top 5 once again... maybe outside of the top 10.

The Flyers easily could be heading into the season with...

Gauthier, Michkov, Perreault and Buium in the system. Plus multiple additional assets in exchange for Laughton and Konency... plus a heavy favorite to draft top 5 in 2025 and 2026. This scenario was on a silver platter and they effed it up through incompetence.

 

[pit]

I recently dug into this a bit. 13 of the last 16 Cups (81%) were won by teams who had multiple top picks. And 14 out of the 16 who went and lost (88%) also had multiple top picks. And, the 3 teams who did not draft multiple high superstars were...

1. Boston, who built their Cup pre-cap with Chara, Bergeron, Thomas, Krejci, Rask, etc.

2. Vegas, who exploited a flawed expansion draft scenario to expedite high-end depth and star power. Ironically, they didn't win a Cup until they had Eichel (2nd overall) and Pietrangelo (4th overall) as key pieces.

3. St. Louis, who pretty much went on a miracle run that consisted of lights-out goaltending. They did have Pietrangelo (4th overall) as their cornerstone on defense.

Now, look at the Flyers. They had a top 5 pick in Gauthier and traded him after he blossomed into one of the best players in all of college hockey. They drafted Michkov at 7 but I'll consider him the real "2nd overall pick." This past draft, they could have lucked into another top 5 pick based on reports but passed on Buium. And, even though they have a bunch of picks in next year's draft, they have put themselves in a situation to draft outside of the top 5 once again... maybe outside of the top 10.

The Flyers easily could be heading into the season with...

Gauthier, Michkov, Perreault and Buium in the system. Plus multiple additional assets in exchange for Laughton and Konency... plus a heavy favorite to draft top 5 in 2025 and 2026. This scenario was on a silver platter and they effed it up through incompetence.

Thanks for that.

Boston had Seguin on their Cup roster as well. Not a mainstay but still technically a top 5.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

The Flyers build from the hard to play against, very low skill players on out. They think this is the way. That is why they will continue to suck and never ever compete for a Cup.
This organization is run by clowns and losers.

 

[Boxscore]

Thanks for that.

Boston had Seguin on their Cup roster as well. Not a mainstay but still technically a top 5.

It's also interesting to note that the Avs didn't win (or become an annual contender) until they traded Duchene. That made it possible for them to invest in better young talent like MacKinnon, Rantanen, and Landeskog. Plus they seized the opportunity to draft Makar, instead of passing on him because they already had Tyson Barrie and others in the system.

And, even though it hasn't quite worked out yet for the Leafs and Sens, they took massive steps in their rebuilds by trading away star vets like Karlsson, Stone, Kessel, and Phaneuf instead of holding onto them and trying to half-step a faux rebuild.

In fact, I personally think the Leafs were on their way to building something great through the draft until they rushed and overpaid for Tavares (who was a luxury item for them). That's why the Konecny extension was a complete joke. In 3 years when the Flyers want to go in a different direction, Konecny's contract will be a burden to move without retaining. And, what will they have to show for keeping him until them? Maybe one trip to the playoffs and picking out of the top 5 three more times?

 

[Beef Invictus]

This means nothing, Hextall also collected a bunch of highly drafted players and his teams were eternally mediocre.

This team tries to develop players into mud

 

[Beef Invictus]

Thanks for that.

Boston had Seguin on their Cup roster as well. Not a mainstay but still technically a top 5.

Naysayers like to downplay Seguin but he was a hell of a guy to have as depth.

 

[Magua]

Could someone please remind me how many teams in the cap era have won the Cup without at least one top 5 pick on their roster?

Do you think Erik Johnson will be here in 2027 when they’re contending? One can hope.

 

[mr figgles]

Thanks for that.

Boston had Seguin on their Cup roster as well. Not a mainstay but still technically a top 5.

Don‘t forget Nathan Horton, and his 7 points in 7 games including the lone goal in game 7 vs Tampa. He was also a big reason they made it back to the finals two years later.

I recently dug into this a bit. 13 of the last 16 Cups (81%) were won by teams who had multiple top picks. And 14 out of the 16 who went and lost (88%) also had multiple top picks. And, the 3 teams who did not draft multiple high superstars were...

1. Boston, who built their Cup pre-cap with Chara, Bergeron, Thomas, Krejci, Rask, etc.

2. Vegas, who exploited a flawed expansion draft scenario to expedite high-end depth and star power. Ironically, they didn't win a Cup until they had Eichel (2nd overall) and Pietrangelo (4th overall) as key pieces.

3. St. Louis, who pretty much went on a miracle run that consisted of lights-out goaltending. They did have Pietrangelo (4th overall) as their cornerstone on defense.

Now, look at the Flyers. They had a top 5 pick in Gauthier and traded him after he blossomed into one of the best players in all of college hockey. They drafted Michkov at 7 but I'll consider him the real "2nd overall pick." This past draft, they could have lucked into another top 5 pick based on reports but passed on Buium. And, even though they have a bunch of picks in next year's draft, they have put themselves in a situation to draft outside of the top 5 once again... maybe outside of the top 10.

The Flyers easily could be heading into the season with...

Gauthier, Michkov, Perreault and Buium in the system. Plus multiple additional assets in exchange for Laughton and Konency... plus a heavy favorite to draft top 5 in 2025 and 2026. This scenario was on a silver platter and they effed it up through incompetence.

It should also be noted that St. Louis needed two shots at securing a 1D, because 1OA Erik Johnson wasn‘t working out.

 

[Tarpongg]

I would have some hope if they drafted Buium. Two consecutive drafts of a high-end talent falling to them. But since they have chosen the paths of "diamond in the rough" drafting along with trading/UFA signing to fill the most difficult positions while carrying among the highest cap hits in the league, their luck factor has to be off the charts.

Yes this…. And… Resigning the entire roster, regardless of age, and picking only 7 times in draft #2 of a supposed 3 year rebuild. Not sure where this influx of young rebuilding talent is supposed to come from?

 

[Boxscore]

It should also be noted that St. Louis needed two shots at securing a 1D, because 1OA Erik Johnson wasn‘t working out.

This is also a good point. Rebuilding teams often need to hedge their bets and go on a run of high picks because all won't pan out as planned... see your example plus Edmonton with Yakupov, Hall and Puljujarvi, etc. Teams need more kicks at the can.

The last two times the Flyers drafted 2nd overall (JVR and Patrick) netted a combined Luke Schenn and flotsam and jetsam at the end of the day. Great rebuilding teams position themselves to select high multiple times, and they rarely whiff.

The Avs are a great example...

Deal Duchene at the right time plus hit on MacKinnon, Landeskog, Rantanen, and Makar. Build around that core, then supplement with mercenary vets and depth chips at the right time, instead of pot-committing to their own vets at the wrong time.

There's an available playbook for rebuilding. It's been done successfully many times in the current era. This sham Flyers "rebuild" cannot be taken seriously when they're holding on to the vets, continually drafting outside the top 5, and reaching for 2Cs when elite 1D prospects fall into their laps.

I don't even want to imagine what happens if (and I don't expect this) Michkov ends up more like Sergei Samsonov than Pavel Bure. If Michkov doesn't end up an elite megastar who is contending for the Rocket annually... like Pasta, Matthews, or Kyle Connor on Red Bull and roids... the Flyers are going to be a disaster. God forbid.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

JvR really wasn’t a bad outcome if it wasn’t the most ideal. He still was a first line caliber player in his peak seasons in Toronto.

It’s like an equivalency outcome of like RNH with Edmonton. If Edmonton had to count on him to be one of their top players they’d be bad. But you added McDavid, Draisaitl, & now Bouchard over time that starts RNH in the convo as their fourth best player at best.

 

[Curufinwe]

Deslauriers is Rinaldo level bad, but with none of the entertainment factor Rinaldo brought in.

Nic is Jody Shelley 2.0.

 

[Boxscore]

JvR really wasn’t a bad outcome if it wasn’t the most ideal. He still was a first line caliber player in his peak seasons in Toronto.

It’s like an equivalency outcome of like RNH with Edmonton. If Edmonton had to count on him to be one of their top players they’d be bad. But you added McDavid, Draisaitl, & now Bouchard over time that starts RNH in the convo as their fourth best player at best.

Fair point. Despite his 104-point outlier, Nugent-Hopkins has been an underwhelming high pick.