Rumor: Things Not Left Unsaid 3 - Flyers Rumors and Media Mentions: Never Ending Circles

[deadhead]

I need it to be October to watch this team suck and everything gets exposed.

Are you planning Seppuku if Ersson/Fedotov turn out to be a good pair of goalies, the team stays healthy and makes the playoffs?

The variance of outcomes for this team is probably as great as any team in the NHL, a goalie meltdown could leave them in the bottom ten, a healthy Couts and emerging Michkov could put them in the top ten.

They finished ahead of NJ and those high draft picks despite having worse goalie play.

They were better at 5x5 than the Rangers,
xGF 52.30% v 49.28%, HDCF 53.32% v 49.64%
the difference between the teams was Shesterkin and the Flyers inability to finish on the PP
PP xGF 51, GF 32 v xGF 63, GF 65

Replacing Atkinson with Michkov improves depth, other than that, rest of improvement would have to come from young players taking their game up another tier.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Hathaway blocks no one, and he's the prototype for what they want in the bottom six.

Flyers are thin at the top of the prospect pool, neither elite talents (with Michkov on the NHL team) nor NHL ready players (most of their better prospects are 2-3 years away, and that includes the guys they draft in 2025).

Closest in terms of playing this year, Lycksell, Eklind, Abols, Tuomaala, Avon, Desnoyers, Gendron in that order.

Building from the bottom six out, or with some "idea" of what you want it to be, is loser stuff. The good teams get the best talent they can wherever they can and let it push guys down. If you're building with some preset idea of a bottom six identity, then you're by necessity excluding options.

This mentality is why the Flyers suck. It's why NYI have gone nowhere.

And Hathaway will block someone. Prospects and young players can in fact play on the 4th line. Remember when you vigorously defended TK being there?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Are you planning Seppuku if Ersson/Fedotov turn out to be a good pair of goalies, the team stays healthy and makes the playoffs?

The variance of outcomes for this team is probably as great as any team in the NHL, a goalie meltdown could leave them in the bottom ten, a healthy Couts and emerging Michkov could put them in the top ten.

They finished ahead of NJ and those high draft picks despite having worse goalie play.

They were better at 5x5 than the Rangers,
xGF 52.30% v 49.28%, HDCF 53.32% v 49.64%
the difference between the teams was Shesterkin and the Flyers inability to finish on the PP
PP xGF 51, GF 32 v xGF 63, GF 65

Replacing Atkinson with Michkov improves depth, other than that, rest of improvement would have to come from young players taking their game up another tier.

And yet NY was much better overall as a team.

 

[prototypical4thliner]

Hathaway blocks no one, and he's the prototype for what they want in the bottom six.

Flyers are thin at the top of the prospect pool, neither elite talents (with Michkov on the NHL team) nor NHL ready players (most of their better prospects are 2-3 years away, and that includes the guys they draft in 2025).

Closest in terms of playing this year, Lycksell, Eklind, Abols, Tuomaala, Avon, Desnoyers, Gendron in that order.

Not a single person here is arguing that this isn’t the model player they want in their bottom six. We are arguing it’s a piss poor conceit to begin with.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Not a single person here is arguing that this isn’t the model player they want in their bottom six. We are arguing it’s a piss poor conceit to begin with.

Right, that they think this way to begin with is not positive on their part.

The Flyers are the negative ones actually

 

[prototypical4thliner]

Right, that they think this way to begin with is not positive on their part.

The Flyers are the negative ones actually

And this is coming from a guy who firmly thinks Hathaway is a good player and someone worth having on the team.

Hamstringing any roster mobility with a long term contract is bad. Seeking that contract extension out as rapidly as they did is even worse.

 

[TheKingPin]

This doesn’t mean they are using Barkey at center right? Hope for a strong showing from Jett

 

[deadhead]

It's obvious they were shooting for something in the vicinity of 2027-28, when they expected Michkov to come over as "ready to play" and in his 2nd NHL season. The fact he arrived early doesn't change things, other than they can supervise his development for two years rather than a KHL HC who only cares about winning now.

This explains the emphasis on the 2025 draft, supposedly deeper than 2024, with potentially 5 picks in the top 40 (3 1sts plus Anaheim and CBJ 2nd rd picks). Those 2025 picks will arrive in the NHL probably between 2026 and 2028.

TK's extension means they'd have TK in his 2nd year of a 8 year deal in 2027. So it suggests they're not planning to go the FA route with Couts (35), Sanheim (31) and TK (30) as the "veteran mainstays" of a young team.

By 2026 both Seeler and Hathaway will be on their way out, either traded or in reduced roles.
Deslauriers, Risto and Laughton will be long-gone, Fedotov will be replaced by a young goalie unless he's lights out, everyone else will be in or approaching their peak years.

Poehling (29), Cates (28), Frost (28), Tippett (28), Ersson (28), York (27), Zamula (27), Farabee (27), Brink (26), Foerster (26), Drysdale (25).

Anyone in the pipeline will be 25 or younger, McDonald (25), Andrae (25), Bump (23), Bonk (22), Sotheran (22), Barkey (22), Luchanko (21) and so on. 2025 draft picks will be (20).

Doesn't mean the plan will work, but the Seeler and Hathaway extensions were "bridge" deals, to fill out the roster while the younger prospects mature and arrive, and provide support for them. Additions like Abols and Eklind are short-term patches at the bottom of the roster/AHL.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's obvious they were shooting for something in the vicinity of 2027-28, when they expected Michkov to come over as "ready to play" and in his 2nd NHL season. The fact he arrived early doesn't change things, other than they can supervise his development for two years rather than a KHL HC who only cares about winning now.

This explains the emphasis on the 2025 draft, supposedly deeper than 2024, with potentially 5 picks in the top 40 (3 1sts plus Anaheim and CBJ 2nd rd picks). Those 2025 picks will arrive in the NHL probably between 2026 and 2028.

TK's extension means they'd have TK in his 2nd year of a 8 year deal in 2027. So it suggests they're not planning to go the FA route with Couts (35), Sanheim (31) and TK (30) as the "veteran mainstays" of a young team.

By 2026 both Seeler and Hathaway will be on their way out, either traded or in reduced roles.
Deslauriers, Risto and Laughton will be long-gone, Fedotov will be replaced by a young goalie unless he's lights out, everyone else will be in or approaching their peak years.

Poehling (29), Cates (28), Frost (28), Tippett (28), Ersson (28), York (27), Zamula (27), Farabee (27), Brink (26), Foerster (26), Drysdale (25).

Anyone in the pipeline will be 25 or younger, McDonald (25), Andrae (25), Bump (23), Bonk (22), Sotheran (22), Barkey (22), Luchanko (21) and so on. 2025 draft picks will be (20).

Doesn't mean the plan will work, but the Seeler and Hathaway extensions were "bridge" deals, to fill out the roster while the younger prospects mature and arrive, and provide support for them. Additions like Abols and Eklind are short-term patches at the bottom of the roster/AHL.

No it is not obvious they are shooting for 27-28 because if they were, they'd have sold off everyone who won't be useful then in favor of assets that could be.

 

[trostol]

I like how once again..someone will be traded a few years down the line when we've seen thus tune before

 

[deadhead]

No it is not obvious they are shooting for 27-28 because if they were, they'd have sold off everyone who won't be useful then in favor of assets that could be.

Why? They're not tanking, and other than Laughton, who would garner better than a late 3rd rd pick?

If you plan to bring in a steady stream of young players, you want a core of veterans to play with them. As the young players mature, they push some of the veterans off the roster.

The problem is never marginal veterans, its the lack of prospects good enough to take their jobs.

Foerster spent one year in the AHL, won a starting job his 2nd season, and is pushing for a top 6 spot this season. Was he blocked by Hathaway or Laughton?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Why? They're not tanking, and other than Laughton, who would garner better than a late 3rd rd pick?

If you plan to bring in a steady stream of young players, you want a core of veterans to play with them. As the young players mature, they push some of the veterans off the roster.

The problem is never marginal veterans, its the lack of prospects good enough to take their jobs.

Foerster spent one year in the AHL, won a starting job his 2nd season, and is pushing for a top 6 spot this season. Was he blocked by Hathaway or Laughton?

Seeler. Hathaway. Both excellent fodder.

But they aren't shooting for some future date. They are trying to compete now. That's the only reason to behave as they have.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

Imagine thinking that the Flyers have a good plan. Imagine.

 

[Boxscore]

If you plan to bring in a steady stream of young players, you want a core of veterans to play with them.

Yes. But first, they need to strip it down so they can draft elite (not just good-to-very-good) young players. Having core veterans who are "productive at the wrong time during the rebuild" is a terrible option for the Flyers right now. And this line of short-sighted thinking has hampered this organization for decades... and they can't shake it.

You tear it down, draft elite, franchise chips, then once they are ready, you surround them with key vets... the way Dallas tried surrounding their young core with guys like Pavelski.

All the Flyers need now are vets like Erik Johnson and Couturier (since nobody is taking that contract). The last thing they need is Konecny and Laughton taking up the cap and hurting their chances of picking top 5 in a great draft.

The Flyers simply have a suspect "plan" based on flawed logic and reasoning.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

It’s no accident both Stanley Cup finalists this year pay each of their 4th line guys $750k. The Hathaway contract is ludicrous and reveals zero roster building acumen in Flyer world

Part of that is they are contenders and can get those types. Flyers have to overpay!!!

To me you should pay your 4th line players 1.5 per or less. 3rd pair d 2 mill or less. Always gonna be outliers. This is where the ELC you need to take advantage of then be patient in free agency. Look at some guys still lingering in free agency. They can find 3 to fill a 4th line all for a million or less with pretty much the same results.

Are you planning Seppuku if Ersson/Fedotov turn out to be a good pair of goalies, the team stays healthy and makes the playoffs?

The variance of outcomes for this team is probably as great as any team in the NHL, a goalie meltdown could leave them in the bottom ten, a healthy Couts and emerging Michkov could put them in the top ten.

They finished ahead of NJ and those high draft picks despite having worse goalie play.

They were better at 5x5 than the Rangers,
xGF 52.30% v 49.28%, HDCF 53.32% v 49.64%
the difference between the teams was Shesterkin and the Flyers inability to finish on the PP
PP xGF 51, GF 32 v xGF 63, GF 65

Replacing Atkinson with Michkov improves depth, other than that, rest of improvement would have to come from young players taking their game up another tier.

I thoroughly enjoyed reading this post.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

It's obvious they were shooting for something in the vicinity of 2027-28, when they expected Michkov to come over as "ready to play" and in his 2nd NHL season. The fact he arrived early doesn't change things, other than they can supervise his development for two years rather than a KHL HC who only cares about winning now.

This explains the emphasis on the 2025 draft, supposedly deeper than 2024, with potentially 5 picks in the top 40 (3 1sts plus Anaheim and CBJ 2nd rd picks). Those 2025 picks will arrive in the NHL probably between 2026 and 2028.

TK's extension means they'd have TK in his 2nd year of a 8 year deal in 2027. So it suggests they're not planning to go the FA route with Couts (35), Sanheim (31) and TK (30) as the "veteran mainstays" of a young team.

By 2026 both Seeler and Hathaway will be on their way out, either traded or in reduced roles.
Deslauriers, Risto and Laughton will be long-gone, Fedotov will be replaced by a young goalie unless he's lights out, everyone else will be in or approaching their peak years.

Poehling (29), Cates (28), Frost (28), Tippett (28), Ersson (28), York (27), Zamula (27), Farabee (27), Brink (26), Foerster (26), Drysdale (25).

Anyone in the pipeline will be 25 or younger, McDonald (25), Andrae (25), Bump (23), Bonk (22), Sotheran (22), Barkey (22), Luchanko (21) and so on. 2025 draft picks will be (20).

Doesn't mean the plan will work, but the Seeler and Hathaway extensions were "bridge" deals, to fill out the roster while the younger prospects mature and arrive, and provide support for them. Additions like Abols and Eklind are short-term patches at the bottom of the roster/AHL.

Love how mantra is now the 2025 draft, They are gonna kill it with those 2 late rd first they have, Then after the draft the new focus will be on the 2026 draft,

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Why? They're not tanking, and other than Laughton, who would garner better than a late 3rd rd pick?

If you plan to bring in a steady stream of young players, you want a core of veterans to play with them. As the young players mature, they push some of the veterans off the roster.

The problem is never marginal veterans, its the lack of prospects good enough to take their jobs.

Foerster spent one year in the AHL, won a starting job his 2nd season, and is pushing for a top 6 spot this season. Was he blocked by Hathaway or Laughton?

Flyers have plenty of vets.

Those same prospect you hype up and have penciled in the lineup at some point?

There is zero reason to give Seeler and GH a 4 year contract. That is bad management. Nothing you say will change that.

This team is a minimum 5 years away from what one hopes is any type of true contending status. With the 3 stooges running the show I doubt they even get there. Very little to look froward to when you really break it down.

I pray to God they ext Torts.

 

[deadhead]

They're not tanking, they were never going to tank.
If they wanted to tank, the time to do that was 2012 or 2019.

Let's see how they do v NJ the next few seasons, who has made the playoffs twice in 12 years - they not only tanked, but got incredibly lucky landing two #1 picks. They also have #2 (Nemec), #4 (Hughes), [#7 (Holtz) traded for Paul Cotter, #6 Zacha traded for Haula].

 

[Beef Invictus]

They're not tanking, they were never going to tank.
If they wanted to tank, the time to do that was 2012 or 2019.

Let's see how they do v NJ the next few seasons, who has made the playoffs twice in 12 years - they not only tanked, but got incredibly lucky landing two #1 picks. They also have #2 (Nemec), #4 (Hughes), [#7 (Holtz) traded for Paul Cotter, #6 Zacha traded for Haula].

They will probably tend to do worse than NJ. The Flyers are the new Buffalo.

 

[Boxscore]

They're not tanking, they were never going to tank.
If they wanted to tank, the time to do that was 2012 or 2019.

Let's see how they do v NJ the next few seasons, who has made the playoffs twice in 12 years - they not only tanked, but got incredibly lucky landing two #1 picks. They also have #2 (Nemec), #4 (Hughes), [#7 (Holtz) traded for Paul Cotter, #6 Zacha traded for Haula].

Why compare them to NJ instead of the other teams who rebuilt the correct way... Pens, Kings, Hawks, Bolts, Avs, etc.?

The problem with the Flyers post-Lindros is that they're impatient, short-sighted, knee-jerk and wasteful when it comes to managing assets.

If their main goal is to outperform the Devils then they are more clueless than we believe them to be.

They have one potentially elite player in their entire system (Michkov). A collection of players headlined by Konecny, Tippett, Laughton, Drysdale, York, Luchanko and Ersson don't challenge for Cups.

So, if they're not going to suck bad enough to have multiple drafts in the top 5, how are they supposed to collect elite talent who win championships? Sign them? How are they going to do that when they're overpaying players like Konecny and Couturier in both money and term... and when they continually rush to commit longterm to bottom of the lineup depth players?

They are setting themselves up to waste Michkov the way they did Lindros and Giroux because they are too stupid to not “suck bad enough to be great in the future.”

 

[Beef Invictus]

"They're not going to tank" stated as if that's the right thing to do when it is objectively an error

"They're going for 27/28" while they do absolutely nothing to set the table for that, and they needed to start at least a year ago if they were.

We are getting to the point where defenses of the Flyers are really really thin.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Shooting for 27/28 to win a playoff series? That’s where the Flyers organization is at. Just be competitive. Hopefully hard to play against doesn’t get in the way of that

 

[BringBackHakstol]

The Flyers in the cap era are the definition of half measures. It's why they get half measure success at best. It's really not more complicated than that despite what deady wants to go on and on about.

Whatever nonsense he's saying about the time passing to tank is ridiculous. It's just excuses

 

[prototypical4thliner]

Why? They're not tanking, and other than Laughton, who would garner better than a late 3rd rd pick?

If you plan to bring in a steady stream of young players, you want a core of veterans to play with them. As the young players mature, they push some of the veterans off the roster.

The problem is never marginal veterans, its the lack of prospects good enough to take their jobs.

Foerster spent one year in the AHL, won a starting job his 2nd season, and is pushing for a top 6 spot this season. Was he blocked by Hathaway or Laughton?

Those thirds fourths and fifths are useful for draft mobility. Identify a target and go get them.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

They're not tanking, they were never going to tank.
If they wanted to tank, the time to do that was 2012 or 2019.

Let's see how they do v NJ the next few seasons, who has made the playoffs twice in 12 years - they not only tanked, but got incredibly lucky landing two #1 picks. They also have #2 (Nemec), #4 (Hughes), [#7 (Holtz) traded for Paul Cotter, #6 Zacha traded for Haula].

This is why the path they choose will end up bearing no fruit. The Flyers way is a losing way. That is proven. The Wharton certificate grad has no fresh ideas or plan.