Post-Game Talk: They blow it - Jets lose to Avs 3-2

[WarriorOfGandhi]

does Enstrom always grip his stick lower before he transitions from passing to taking a shot? I don't think I've seen a player do that before

 

[CorgisPer60]

does Enstrom always grip his stick lower before he transitions from passing to taking a shot? I don't think I've seen a player do that before

He plays with a longer stick than most other players, and chokes up when he has to. He's quite effective with it.

 

[Rook37]

does Enstrom always grip his stick lower before he transitions from passing to taking a shot? I don't think I've seen a player do that before

Googling it really quick me led to this article.

very weird watching him receive a pass and then quickly change his grip on the stick. i dont know anyone else who does this.

sounds like its always been the case

 

[Duke749]

does Enstrom always grip his stick lower before he transitions from passing to taking a shot? I don't think I've seen a player do that before

Has always done it to adjust to a pass at his feet. Buff started doing it as well when he started playing with him, but I haven't seen him do it in quite some time.

 

[wpgsilver]

Has always done it to adjust to a pass at his feet. Buff started doing it as well when he started playing with him, but I haven't seen him do it in quite some time.

Buff still does it.
Les often though.

 

[Crisp Breakout]

It's pretty impressive to see what quality coaching can do for a team. To see this Avalanche group perform so poorly last season, pick 1st overall in the draft, start this season with a nearly identical roster and now be 10-1 under Roy, to have formed an identity, under a new system, in such short order... that's impressive. Must be nice.

Everyone seems to think it's almost the same roster, but it's entirely revamped when you consider injuries. We added an entire third line and swapped out half of our defense. We were never three lines deep last year due to injuries.

Forward Changes:
>>Tanguay for Jones. Huge win because Jones has no compete and sucks at defense.
>>Add a healthy Downie. Only got one game out of him last year.
>>No concussion for Landeskog.
>>Respectfully moved on from Hejduk, who was getting old and inconsistent.
>>Added MacKinnon to the top-9.
>>No holdout for ROR

Entire new line in Mack, Downie, and Tanguay (who all are, of course, on different lines). Also, have all three of Stastny, Landeskog, and ROR in the lineup at the same time.

Defense Changes:
>>Got rid of Shane O'Brien
>>Got rid of Greg Zanon
>>Moved Hunwick to the press box
>>Got rid of Ryan O'Byrne
>>Added Andre Benoit
>>Added Nate Guenin
>>Added Cory Sarich
>>Got a healthy Ryan Wilson.

We basically swapped out 4/6 defensemen. The only regulars from last year are Erik Johnson and Jan Hejda. Barrie has been riding the pine.

 

[Positive]

But he also was one of the top for scoring chance per offensive zone entry...

Also, he had one of the best scoring chances against per minute for the team...

So maybe you are having difficulty differentiating the common occurrence from the rarer but burnt in your memory occurrence.

Do you actually recall all those times he created scoring chances from watching games? or do you just look at the precious advanced stats?

Keep on clinging on a theory that the 10 whole goals or whatever that Kane scored while Burmi was on his line (but probably didn't even collect a secondary assist on) definitively makes him some Points-per-60 generating machine.

The Burmi era is done, get over it. He didn't want to keep playing here for whatever reason, and we shouldn't be harping on him like some ex-girlfriend who was only semi-interested in the relationship. Wishing for players that aren't here, to be here...joy.

The Stapleton comment was meant as a joke, but then the Burmi card had to come out again. Yeesh.

 

[pucka lucka]

Do you actually recall all those times he created scoring chances from watching games? or do you just look at the precious advanced stats?

Keep on clinging on a theory that the 10 whole goals or whatever that Kane scored while Burmi was on his line (but probably didn't even collect a secondary assist on) definitively makes him some Points-per-60 generating machine.

The Burmi era is done, get over it. He didn't want to keep playing here for whatever reason, and we shouldn't be harping on him like some ex-girlfriend who was only semi-interested in the relationship. Wishing for players that aren't here, to be here...joy.

The Stapleton comment was meant as a joke, but then the Burmi card had to come out again. Yeesh.

garret your fancy numbers are meaningless over Wings eyes. The Burmi comment came out exactly because of posts like this.

 

[Jet]

To me, not much difference between Noel's "these are pretty much the same players we had here last year" followed by "What we're proving on the power play is there's a reason why we were last last year" and Burke's "I'm doing the best I can with what I have".

Both are relatively desperate statements coming from a head coach.

Yeah that really pissed me off. First of all, IT'S YOUR ****ING JOB TO MAKE WHAT YOU HAVE WORK!! Not complain about it. If you can't do it, then quit. Second of all, even if you believe that (which is ********) you don't say that to a team that's PP has actually started looking pretty decent but has just failed to score. It's the anti-viagra for the PP IMHO.

Just another FAIL from Noel. Coaches would DIE to have the weapons we have on the back end. A good coach would find a way to run 2 PP's and switch between the 2 systems when the other team was covering either the low play or the points.

You have Byfuglien, Enstrom, Postma, Clitsome and Bogosian at your disposal. Enstrom is a GD wizard at the point. Byfuglien for his warts is a great PP asset. You have forwards who can score.

If it's not working, don't throw your damn hands in the air. Do your JOB!

 

[Guerzy]

Everyone seems to think it's almost the same roster, but it's entirely revamped when you consider injuries. We added an entire third line and swapped out half of our defense. We were never three lines deep last year due to injuries.

Forward Changes:
>>Tanguay for Jones. Huge win because Jones has no compete and sucks at defense.
>>Add a healthy Downie. Only got one game out of him last year.
>>No concussion for Landeskog.
>>Respectfully moved on from Hejduk, who was getting old and inconsistent.
>>Added MacKinnon to the top-9.
>>No holdout for ROR

Entire new line in Mack, Downie, and Tanguay (who all are, of course, on different lines). Also, have all three of Stastny, Landeskog, and ROR in the lineup at the same time.

Defense Changes:
>>Got rid of Shane O'Brien
>>Got rid of Greg Zanon
>>Moved Hunwick to the press box
>>Got rid of Ryan O'Byrne
>>Added Andre Benoit
>>Added Nate Guenin
>>Added Cory Sarich
>>Got a healthy Ryan Wilson.

We basically swapped out 4/6 defensemen. The only regulars from last year are Erik Johnson and Jan Hejda. Barrie has been riding the pine.

Indeed quite a few changes there. I wasn't accounting for the injuries (Downie, Landeskog, Stastny) and having O'Reilly in.

Goaltending has been a huge turnaround, be it from Roy/Allaire. What a boost that is.

And wow, that is a completely different blueline, didn't really realize that.

I think coaching has been a huge positive move forward here, though. Sacco to Roy, night and day.

Loved the acquisition of Tanguay back to Colorado. As a guy who started his playing days with Sakic and Roy and now he's playing for them again in a different light, I love that add. He's been around the block now and should add a real nice leadership element.

I really like the way the Avs look and the direction they appear to be headed.

 

[Guerzy]

Yeah that really pissed me off. First of all, IT'S YOUR ****ING JOB TO MAKE WHAT YOU HAVE WORK!! Not complain about it. If you can't do it, then quit. Second of all, even if you believe that (which is ********) you don't say that to a team that's PP has actually started looking pretty decent but has just failed to score. It's the anti-viagra for the PP IMHO.

Just another FAIL from Noel. Coaches would DIE to have the weapons we have on the back end. A good coach would find a way to run 2 PP's and switch between the 2 systems when the other team was covering either the low play or the points.

You have Byfuglien, Enstrom, Postma, Clitsome and Bogosian at your disposal. Enstrom is a GD wizard at the point. Byfuglien for his warts is a great PP asset. You have forwards who can score.

If it's not working, don't throw your damn hands in the air. Do your JOB!

Pretty well my thoughts, Jet. I thought that was an incredibly stupid thing to say. Two times in two weeks now Noel has essentially **** on Chevy's roster. .. Maybe he has a point, maybe he doesn't, maybe he's part of the problem. I'd be a bit more careful though if I were him in terms of what you say publicly towards the hand that feeds you and essentially holds your job at stake.

 

[Jet]

It's pretty impressive to see what quality coaching can do for a team. To see this Avalanche group perform so poorly last season, pick 1st overall in the draft, start this season with a nearly identical roster and now be 10-1 under Roy, to have formed an identity, under a new system, in such short order... that's impressive. Must be nice.

Guerzy, while I agree 10-1 is pretty awesome, and the team looks extremely energized and offensively potent, I think they are in for a huge reality check. Fans of the Avs said we saw their worst game and they should hope that is the case. I saw a lot of flaws in their game last night, despite the win.

I think as teams figure them out a bit, and they come back to earth, they are going to struggle. They remind me a lot of the Oilers TBH. The difference is they have more grit and purpose to their game. The roster flaws are still pretty glaring and will come to bear.

What I have seen from the Jets lately is more of the fire that the Avs are playing with. As down as I am on Noel for questionable decisions with the roster and in-game, I will give him credit for having the meetings that turned this team around. I had said he was not a good leader or motivator but he's proved me wrong somewhat. We will see if the team sustains it but lately at least, I've really liked the work ethic and drive of the Jets.

 

[Guerzy]

Guerzy, while I agree 10-1 is pretty awesome, and the team looks extremely energized and offensively potent, I think they are in for a huge reality check. Fans of the Avs said we saw their worst game and they should hope that is the case. I saw a lot of flaws in their game last night, despite the win.

I think as teams figure them out a bit, and they come back to earth, they are going to struggle. They remind me a lot of the Oilers TBH. The difference is they have more grit and purpose to their game. The roster flaws are still pretty glaring and will come to bear.

What I have seen from the Jets lately is more of the fire that the Avs are playing with. As down as I am on Noel for questionable decisions with the roster and in-game, I will give him credit for having the meetings that turned this team around. I had said he was not a good leader or motivator but he's proved me wrong somewhat. We will see if the team sustains it but lately at least, I've really liked the work ethic and drive of the Jets.

I can agree to that, Jet. I do see them hitting a wall here of some sort, be it a small hurdle or a big one, who knows.

Still though, to see a team like that adapt to a new coach, style of play, etc.. and have this much success? lucky for them it hasn't taken 3 years.

I can't give Noel OR the players here too much credit until they consistently carry on with this play and keep their actions where their mouths are. Since the team arrived in Winnipeg how many times have we seen this? many times. Show me more, Jets. Consistently. Then, and only then, will I begin believing in you.

 

[EpicGingy]

This is a little bit off topic but I've lost track of how long long Trouba has had his neck brace, it comes off this this week, right?

Also, disappointing end to the hockey game. We need to learn how to close these games out.

 

[Jet]

He plays with a longer stick than most other players, and chokes up when he has to. He's quite effective with it.

The hilarious thing is I've seen Byfuglien do it too. I was like 'if you are going to learn something from Toby, I can think of a dozen other things you should learn first'

 

[Bob E]

Pretty well my thoughts, Jet. I thought that was an incredibly stupid thing to say. Two times in two weeks now Noel has essentially **** on Chevy's roster. .. Maybe he has a point, maybe he doesn't, maybe he's part of the problem. I'd be a bit more careful though if I were him in terms of what you say publicly towards the hand that feeds you and essentially holds your job at stake.

Yup. Its the ramblings of a desperate coach, imo.

Its basically,

Noel: "I'd have more success with better players"

At some point, Chevy will either get a player or two that 'fits their system or style of play better', or says "we'd have more success, with a different coach."

With all the long-term, NM contracts, it may be simpler to change the coach. If there's some complacency or comfort setting in, which imo I think there is, a new coach can definitely change that feeling in a hurry.

 

[Bob E]

Has always done it to adjust to a pass at his feet. Buff started doing it as well when he started playing with him, but I haven't seen him do it in quite some time.

Did I last night, trying to keep the puck in at the blueline, unsuccessfully, on a poor d-to-d by Clitsome.

Its a pretty effective play, usually.

 

[pucka lucka]

Guerzy, while I agree 10-1 is pretty awesome, and the team looks extremely energized and offensively potent, I think they are in for a huge reality check. Fans of the Avs said we saw their worst game and they should hope that is the case. I saw a lot of flaws in their game last night, despite the win.

I think as teams figure them out a bit, and they come back to earth, they are going to struggle. They remind me a lot of the Oilers TBH. The difference is they have more grit and purpose to their game. The roster flaws are still pretty glaring and will come to bear.

What I have seen from the Jets lately is more of the fire that the Avs are playing with. As down as I am on Noel for questionable decisions with the roster and in-game, I will give him credit for having the meetings that turned this team around. I had said he was not a good leader or motivator but he's proved me wrong somewhat. We will see if the team sustains it but lately at least, I've really liked the work ethic and drive of the Jets.

If that was their worst game, I posit that they haven't seen all the games. They were totally dominated by the Pens, outside of goaltending.

 

[SensibleGuy]

I also found Noel's response to a question about what he thought of Montoya's game pretty frustrating. Frankly, I thought Monty looked every bit as good as Pav's has this season - in fact, ftmp I felt more confident in Montoya due to his puck handling. Noel otoh seemed like he really didn't want to give Montoya any props at all. He'd referred to Pavs play as superb or something like that but Montoya (the back-up who'd just come pretty close to winning against the current top team in the league) was "ok." I don't know...there was just something about his tone when he answered that gave me the impression that he was doing his best to downplay Montoya's performance...

 

[Guerzy]

Yup. Its the ramblings of a desperate coach, imo.

Its basically,

Noel: "I'd have more success with better players"

At some point, Chevy will either get a player or two that 'fits their system or style of play better', or says "we'd have more success, with a different coach."

With all the long-term, NM contracts, it may be simpler to change the coach. If there's some complacency or comfort setting in, which imo I think there is, a new coach can definitely change that feeling in a hurry.

Agree, Bob.

Personally, I envision this team legitimately turning the page when a couple things are done. I think we need a new head coach, and I think for the first time since the team arrived we need to shake the core, and that likely begins with moving Byfuglien.

If those two things were done, I think we begin seeing a different team, culture, attitude, etc... Most of all, a new identity.

Those moves to me, would really air the house out. Then again, maybe I am wrong, that's possible to.

 

[pucka lucka]

I also found Noel's response to a question about what he thought of Montoya's game pretty frustrating. Frankly, I thought Monty looked every bit as good as Pav's has this season - in fact, ftmp I felt more confident in Montoya due to his puck handling. Noel otoh seemed like he really didn't want to give Montoya any props at all. He'd referred to Pavs play as superb or something like that but Montoya (the back-up who'd just come pretty close to winning against the current top team in the league) was "ok." I don't know...there was just something about his tone when he answered that gave me the impression that he was doing his best to downplay Montoya's performance...

It's fascinating that even at the highest levels most coaches don't have a hot clue about goaltending. Unless the HC has a history of scouting, coaching or playing goal, they shouldn't be picking or discussing goaltending beyond results.

 

[garret9]

Do you actually recall all those times he created scoring chances from watching games? or do you just look at the precious advanced stats?

I tracked it, from watching games. For the entire Jets roster. As did a member of the blogging community for the opposite team for each game. Thus removing scorers bias.

Keep on clinging on a theory that the 10 whole goals or whatever that Kane scored while Burmi was on his line (but probably didn't even collect a secondary assist on) definitively makes him some Points-per-60 generating machine.

I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about BURMI's points when in the top 6... Burmi in his top 6 minutes paced similarly to Little's pace in the top 6. Burmi paced like gawdawful in the bottom 6. I'm just pointing out the facts.

To me it makes sense. I see Burmi's talents similar to how some see midfielders in soccer. He doesn't generate scoring chances very but in the end improves the team's ability to generate them. You put him with scoring talent, he'll improve those scorers number of opportunities and thus get some points just syphoned from that. You put him with Wright or Thorburn and those guys getting more scoring chances isn't going to produce much.

But if you want to talk about Kane, it's not exclusive to last season but a trend in all three, both the Kane improvement and the bottom/top 6 scoring ratios, so I guess a pretty good theory eh?

The Burmi era is done, get over it. He didn't want to keep playing here for whatever reason, and we shouldn't be harping on him like some ex-girlfriend who was only semi-interested in the relationship. Wishing for players that aren't here, to be here...joy.

I think you quite misunderstand me. I'm correcting what all evidence appears to be a misconception of a former player. It's not like I think you're Chevy and trying to convince you to bring him back...

For the ex analogy, it's like you saying your ex spent all your money, and I correct you that she only used her own and made more than you...

The Stapleton comment was meant as a joke, but then the Burmi card had to come out again. Yeesh.

I know it was a joke. I just said I rather one than the other, and then made a joke about the Jets PP problems.

Yeesh?

 

[Jet]

Agree, Bob.

Personally, I envision this team legitimately turning the page when a couple things are done. I think we need a new head coach, and I think for the first time since the team arrived we need to shake the core, and that likely begins with moving Byfuglien.

If those two things were done, I think we begin seeing a different team, culture, attitude, etc... Most of all, a new identity.

Those moves to me, would really air the house out. Then again, maybe I am wrong, that's possible to.

On the same page with you here, Mr. G. I have waffled on Byfuglien (mmmmm waffles) since the Jets arrived in Winnipeg. When he plays well, is skating, shooting, dangling, hitting, you see what an absolute unstoppable beast he could be and you salivate. If you could ever get #33 playing consistently at that level you would have the best defenseman this league has seen in a long time. That always caused me to really hesitate when thinking about moving him.

This year with all the fitness talk and his desire to play for the US in the Olympics I thought this would be the season where we might actually see that dominant, Norris calibre performance from him. Instead it's been a pretty colossal disappointment. He's had his moments, as usual, but he is still invisible for big stretches, and does absolutely stupid, rookie things on the ice. I am resigned to the fact that he will never be more than he is right now.

Having said that, what he is now is a big big man with skill, who can skate. He is a nice PP weapon who will hover near the top of the NHL in points for defencemen.

For me though, that is not enough anymore. The negative he brings to the team outstrips the positive. He reminds me of Rick Nash in a way. I think he is far more valueable to the Jets right now for what he will fetch in return. Add to the fact I don't believe he will re-sign here and I think NOW is the time to move him.

Fire Noel, trade Byfuglien and I bet this team really starts to shine.

 

[Bob E]

Agree, Bob.

Personally, I envision this team legitimately turning the page when a couple things are done. I think we need a new head coach, and I think for the first time since the team arrived we need to shake the core, and that likely begins with moving Byfuglien.

If those two things were done, I think we begin seeing a different team, culture, attitude, etc... Most of all, a new identity.

Those moves to me, would really air the house out. Then again, maybe I am wrong, that's possible to.

I agree, Guerzy.

If this .500 - or below - record continues for the next while, at some point, Chevy would need to make a change for the very reasons you noted. If TNSE is serious about being a playoff calibre team in the near future, they have to show it to the players and fans. A deal that makes them better short-term and long-term, with quality young players and 'addition by subtraction', or a coaching change has to be considered. If not, Management loses a lot of credibility in wanting to be a winner. That's not the view I think they want to have.

 

[peg]

I know this isn't the fire Noel thread, but during the game last night on TSN the commentators were talking about Roy and how as a former goalie he would spot weaknesses in the opposing goalies games and during the game go up to guys and tell them where they should be shooting. In other words, he would be COACHING!!!

The only time that I ever see Noel go up to any player during the game is to chew them out after they made a bad play on the ice. I'm sure that was a great motivator for Enstrom

The only time I have ever seen Noel give a player a pat on the back was Pavs after the Dallas game. After a big win, if anything, he should be giving everyone a pat on the back. These guys are highly paid professionals, but in honesty they are for the most part kids in their early 20's. They are talented and I believe can play much better. Noel does not know how to get it out of them. Rant over.