Post-Game Talk: They blow it - Jets lose to Avs 3-2

[ps241]

Yeah that really pissed me off. First of all, IT'S YOUR ****ING JOB TO MAKE WHAT YOU HAVE WORK!! Not complain about it. If you can't do it, then quit. Second of all, even if you believe that (which is ********) you don't say that to a team that's PP has actually started looking pretty decent but has just failed to score. It's the anti-viagra for the PP IMHO.

Just another FAIL from Noel. Coaches would DIE to have the weapons we have on the back end. A good coach would find a way to run 2 PP's and switch between the 2 systems when the other team was covering either the low play or the points.

You have Byfuglien, Enstrom, Postma, Clitsome and Bogosian at your disposal. Enstrom is a GD wizard at the point. Byfuglien for his warts is a great PP asset. You have forwards who can score.

If it's not working, don't throw your damn hands in the air. Do your JOB!

Yea you nailed it Jet. I know a coach can get frustrated when he gets asked the same question over and over in interviews but it’s REALLY important pick your words wisely and not throw your boss under the bus if you plan on keeping your job.

 

[Grind]

I'm still fairly positivea fter these 4 games, but i'd be lieing if i said i wasn't still secretly hoping to find out that we've made some significant move.

 

[Bob E]

I'm still fairly positivea fter these 4 games, but i'd be lieing if i said i wasn't still secretly hoping to find out that we've made some significant move.

You're not alone Grind.

If the Jets lose tomorrow night - coupled with a poor pp, several defensive breakdowns, being outshot dramatically, and a few key players "not showing up" - I would hope some moves are made.

With an injury to Trouba, and Postma I suppose, this may not be a great time to trade Buff, but a change is needed.

I wouldn't mind seeing a deal for Versteeg - with Seto and a pick or prospect going the other way. The guy loves scoring at MTSC, and has some term on his contract.

 

[HannuJ]

I know this isn't the fire Noel thread, but during the game last night on TSN the commentators were talking about Roy and how as a former goalie he would spot weaknesses in the opposing goalies games and during the game go up to guys and tell them where they should be shooting. In other words, he would be COACHING!!!

The only time that I ever see Noel go up to any player during the game is to chew them out after they made a bad play on the ice. I'm sure that was a great motivator for Enstrom

The only time I have ever seen Noel give a player a pat on the back was Pavs after the Dallas game. After a big win, if anything, he should be giving everyone a pat on the back. These guys are highly paid professionals, but in honesty they are for the most part kids in their early 20's. They are talented and I believe can play much better. Noel does not know how to get it out of them. Rant over.

i think this begs the greater question as to what NHL coaches actually do.

this isn't the NFL where the coaches coordinate the offense and defence.

during a game, what can an NHL coach seriously do to alter his team's play? it's like a coach drawing a time-out play in the NHL. this isn't basketball and you can't really often run a play.

 

[peg]

i think this begs the greater question as to what NHL coaches actually do.

this isn't the NFL where the coaches coordinate the offense and defence.

during a game, what can an NHL coach seriously do to alter his team's play? it's like a coach drawing a time-out play in the NHL. this isn't basketball and you can't really often run a play.

That is a good question. I would say that coaches motivate, they get their players to work hard, to play with confidence, to play with discipline, and to play a system that complements the natural skill set of the players. At least I think that's what Roy does.

 

[Bob E]

It was interesting to read Duchene's comments about last year the players recognizing the coach's system wouldn't work, and they had guys not buying in. This year, much different. They all seem to be on the same page, and with that comes a lot of success for them.
So I wonder, do the players believe in Coach Noel's system? Do they truly believe that if they play it, they'll have success? For instance, if part of Noel's plan is to activate their D, all the time, do forwards not press as they would like, for fear of odd man rushes against? Then would a different approach, by a different coach, be more accepting to the players as a group?

Just can't shake the feeling something isn't right. Can't go 3 years of 'not giving an effort', 'not winning battles', 'making poor decisions on ice' - without changes. Doesn't seem to matter who's in the line-up, the problems seem to be the same.

 

[Rook37]

It was interesting to read Duchene's comments about last year the players recognizing the coach's system wouldn't work, and they had guys not buying in. This year, much different. They all seem to be on the same page, and with that comes a lot of success for them.
So I wonder, do the players believe in Coach Noel's system? Do they truly believe that if they play it, they'll have success? For instance, if part of Noel's plan is to activate their D, all the time, do forwards not press as they would like, for fear of odd man rushes against? Then would a different approach, by a different coach, be more accepting to the players as a group?

Just can't shake the feeling something isn't right. Can't go 3 years of 'not giving an effort', 'not winning battles', 'making poor decisions on ice' - without changes. Doesn't seem to matter who's in the line-up, the problems seem to be the same.

That's a good question. I'm honestly kind of surprised the Avs recent success hasn't resulted in more head coaches being fired but I suppose there aren't many teams who actually care about winning and are doing poorly enough to justify that (EDM/NYR just got new ones, BUF doesn't really want to win and PHI fired Lavvy)

Still, I think Roy's success in turning around the Avalanche in such a short time is going a long way towards showing the NHL how much of a difference a new coach makes. An intact team and improved D is definitely helping but it's incredible to see how much effort and hard work he's getting out of a team that was criticized for "just playing until their Vegas trip" only last year. Definitely adds a lot of incentive to question why particular coaches seem incapable of motivating their team in similar ways.

 

[Huffer]

i think this begs the greater question as to what NHL coaches actually do.

this isn't the NFL where the coaches coordinate the offense and defence.

during a game, what can an NHL coach seriously do to alter his team's play? it's like a coach drawing a time-out play in the NHL. this isn't basketball and you can't really often run a play.

I thought this info was interesting:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=435230

"The rally was ignited before the Avalanche took the ice in the third period. During the intermission Roy broke out video tape to correct some things to help free up the offence.

"We had to make some adjustments because the way they play defensively," Roy said. "We wanted to transfer pucks. That's what generated our best chances and our goal. They overload the puck side. We moved the puck and that opened the ice for us.""

I think I remember some teams going to the video (coaches only, not with the team) during those HBO 24/7's as well. Or was it that Habs one? One of them anyway.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Hey guys, just wanted to add to some of the convo going on in here.

First off, it truly does surprise me to see that the PP isn't really generating offense. They have such quality players for the #1 unit that its kind of baffling that it hasnt gotten better numbers.
I think the Jets played a strong game last night, and honestly, the avs have struggled with Jets for a little bit. Last year, you guys hammered us so something about your style of play causes the avs problems.
Im sure the PP jynx will unblock at some point, the PP QBs on this team are great so that should open tons of space down low.

But I really wanted to chime in to the coaching aspect and the convo going on about Roy, Noel and coaching in general.

The avs players after each game have been ranting about how Roy and Tourigny have a different game plan for each team they play. And without a doubt, the avs did make 2 different adjustments to playing the jets. I saw some talk about our PK and how its very aggressive on the point. Up until last night, the avs only tend to cover one point man at a time, (the one who has the puck). If the puck is passed across the blue line, the other forward pushes up and the opposing forward drops back into the slot. However, last night, both avs forwards were up on both points all night. Surely it was an adjustment to take away the Jets' main strength, Buff and Toby.
Even in the Pittsburgh game, the avs overloaded the left side because the Pens only have left handed shooters. They set up purposefully so that it would all funnel to that side to give Giguere easy reads.

As for the other adjustments, Roy and Hejda both stated that Roy whose the team game tape during the second intermission about some of the Jets tendencies and where they might be able to cause some problems. So Roy asked them to watch for the overload on the "puck side" and it seemed to work. He didnt want to go into detail in his presser what he meant by that because he said, "we want to be able to use it in the future."

Undoubtedly the avs have had their warts and have areas that need a lot of work. But, a little in agreement with some of your posts that coaching has made a huge difference both before games and during them. The coaching staff seems to know how to motivate and when, but also seem to do a lot of video work before games to be prepared to counter the strengths of their opponents.

 

[Guerzy]

Hey guys, just wanted to add to some of the convo going on in here.

First off, it truly does surprise me to see that the PP is really generating offense. They have such quality players for the #1 unit that its kind of baffling that it hasnt gotten better numbers.
I think the Jets played a strong game last night, and honestly, the avs have struggled with Jets for a little bit. Last year, you guys hammered us so something about your style of play causes the avs problems.
Im sure the PP jynx will unblock at some point, the PP QBs on this team are great so that should open tons of space down low.

But I really wanted to chime in to the coaching aspect and the convo going on about Roy, Noel and coaching in general.

The avs players after each game have been ranting about how Roy and Tourigny have a different game plan for each team they play. And without a doubt, the avs did make 2 different adjustments to playing the jets. I saw some talk about our PK and how its very aggressive on the point. Up until last night, the avs only tend to cover one point man at a time, (the one who has the puck). If the puck is passed across the blue line, the other forward pushes up and the opposing forward drops back into the slot. However, last night, both avs forwards were up on both points all night. Surely it was an adjustment to take away the Jets' main strength, Buff and Toby.
Even in the Pittsburgh game, the avs overloaded the left side because the Pens only have left handed shooters. They set up purposefully so that it would all funnel to that side to give Giguere easy reads.

As for the other adjustments, Roy and Hejda both stated that Roy whose the team game tape during the second intermission about some of the Jets tendencies and where they might be able to cause some problems. So Roy asked them to watch for the overload on the "puck side" and it seemed to work. He didnt want to go into detail in his presser what he meant by that because he said, "we want to be able to use it in the future."

Undoubtedly the avs have had their warts and have areas that need a lot of work. But, a little in agreement with some of your posts that coaching has made a huge difference both before games and during them. The coaching staff seems to know how to motivate and when, but also seem to do a lot of video work before games to be prepared to counter the strengths of their opponents.

Nice detailed response, thank you. I'm pretty intrigued by what the Avs have been able to do here in their turnaround.

This also raised my eyebrows a little, just all interesting stuff to me. I have found Matt Duchene's comments quite interesting.

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/20...ch-joe-sacco-reinvigorated-under-patrick-roy/

You won’t find Matt Duchene in ex-Avalanche coach Joe Sacco’s fan club. “There is no doghouse with Patrick (Roy),” said Duchene, who chafed at Sacco’s style. “(Roy) brings you in, sits you down, you talk constructively, then you go back out and play.” Duchene said Sacco had a plan, but “it was the wrong plan. He wanted us to dump and chase.” Roy is more puck-control. Duchene is making the biggest push at forward for a Canadian Olympic men’s hockey team spot after being a long-shot going in with so many centres. Sacco is part of the gong show in Buffalo now as Ron Rolston’s assistant.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Nice detailed response, thank you. I'm pretty intrigued by what the Avs have been able to do here in their turnaround.

This also raised my eyebrows a little, just all interesting stuff to me. I have found Matt Duchene's comments quite interesting.

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/20...ch-joe-sacco-reinvigorated-under-patrick-roy/

Undoubtedly, they are more receptive towards Roy than they ever were with Sacco. Here's another tidbit from Duchene.


"There were very few people in this (dressing) room who were happy. Our style of play, it wasn't right for this team. We knew it would fail," Duchene said. "That was the hard part. We knew (any) success was going to be short-lived. It was hard to really be excited about it. For myself, it was really hard to look at what we were doing and think it would keep on working. I can honestly say now, it's not like that."

Link: http://www.denverpost.com/avalanche...-and-personal-style-patrick-roy#ixzz2iuyg9qe6

 

[Guerzy]

Undoubtedly, they are more receptive towards Roy than they ever were with Sacco. Here's another tidbit from Duchene.


"There were very few people in this (dressing) room who were happy. Our style of play, it wasn't right for this team. We knew it would fail," Duchene said. "That was the hard part. We knew (any) success was going to be short-lived. It was hard to really be excited about it. For myself, it was really hard to look at what we were doing and think it would keep on working. I can honestly say now, it's not like that."

Link: http://www.denverpost.com/avalanche...-and-personal-style-patrick-roy#ixzz2iuyg9qe6

Very interesting quotes, for sure. Much of that (to me) rings true to this Jets team. Almost scary, really.

 

[Crisp Breakout]

Very interesting quotes, for sure. Much of that (to me) rings true to this Jets team. Almost scary, really.

It's hard to imagine anyone being quite as bad as Sacco. Ask any Avs fan if the phrase "We just didn't start on time," means anything to them. Incredible how often that was said.

Though with his comment about the players on the PP, I can feel your pain.

 

[Grind]

Very interesting quotes, for sure. Much of that (to me) rings true to this Jets team. Almost scary, really.

for me...it's not almost...it is scary...really scary.

 

[Guerzy]

It's hard to imagine anyone being quite as bad as Sacco. Ask any Avs fan if the phrase "We just didn't start on time," means anything to them. Incredible how often that was said.

Though with his comment about the players on the PP, I can feel your pain.

geez, that rings true here with this team, too. ...

 

[Howard Chuck]

Whoa! It's like deja vu all over again!

Seriously.....

 

[Savagestevo]

Yea you nailed it Jet. I know a coach can get frustrated when he gets asked the same question over and over in interviews but it’s REALLY important pick your words wisely and not throw your boss under the bus if you plan on keeping your job.

I don't think Cheveldayoff was planning on keeping him anyways, perhaps a comment like this would just speed up the process. I mean this guy is basically the sole reason why the team lost an asset in Burmistrov. I actually gave Noel the benefit of the doubt before with that but I don't anymore, he just HAS to play veterans over young players, statistical evidence and even eye tests be damned. I'm convinced Trouba only played so much before he got injured was because he's just that good, but of course even still Clitsome has to be put in ahead of him when he returns from injury.

 

[SensibleGuy]

It's hard to imagine anyone being quite as bad as Sacco. Ask any Avs fan if the phrase "We just didn't start on time," means anything to them. Incredible how often that was said.

Though with his comment about the players on the PP, I can feel your pain.

lol, go have a read through all the post-game threads here after a loss. Probably 90% of them have "why the hell does this team keep coming out flat for the first ten minutes??" as a predominant theme...

Those Duchene comments really are scary...

 

[Howard Chuck]

Peluso/Thorburn

 

[surixon]

Very interesting quotes, for sure. Much of that (to me) rings true to this Jets team. Almost scary, really.

I've never gotten the feeling that the players have ever fully bought into what Noel has been selling. We see it in spurts here and there but not to the extent that you would expect if the team really believed in its coach. This team still doesn't have an identity and I think that could be part of the problem. We continually see this team look unsure of themselves most notably in the dzone. Given the talent we have on the back-end there really shouldn't be any reason for us having as much difficulty as we do breaking the puck out.

Our pp is very predictable and we don't utilize our roster properly i.e Kane being asked to qb the half boards and placing Scheifele in front of the goalie.

At some point either the players show that they are willing to buy in completely (Unlikely since its been almost 3 years with little results) or Noel needs to go along with possibly a big move. I just don't think it will be productive to keep the status quo that much longer.

 

[Bob E]

I've never gotten the feeling that the players have ever fully bought into what Noel has been selling. We see it in spurts here and there but not to the extent that you would expect if the team really believed in its coach. This team still doesn't have an identity and I think that could be part of the problem. We continually see this team look unsure of themselves most notably in the dzone. Given the talent we have on the back-end there really shouldn't be any reason for us having as much difficulty as we do breaking the puck out.

Our pp is very predictable and we don't utilize our roster properly i.e Kane being asked to qb the half boards and placing Scheifele in front of the goalie.

At some point either the players show that they are willing to buy in completely (Unlikely since its been almost 3 years with little results) or Noel needs to go along with possibly a big move. I just don't think it will be productive to keep the status quo that much longer.

Yup.

I wonder... The players are likely frustrated because they want to play a certain style of game, as they believe it may have success, and Noel is frustrated because they won't consistently play the way he wants them to. So who's right?

Either way, what they are doing isn't working, and eventually a change will be made. Its interesting to hear about Roy making adjustments during the game. Not much different than opposing teams in football doing that at halftime - except the Bombers. Its tiresome to constantly be out-coached.

 

[BurnabyJo]

Just wanted to jump in and say thank you for such a great post game thread. There has been a lot of thoughtful, constructive conversation and I love the opposing team's fans chiming in about their own team as well as ours

Couldn't agree more about the identity crisis we seem to have