Therrien - New Season Edition
- Thread starter Lafleurs Guy
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Lafleurs Guy
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- Jul 20, 2007
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Bottom third across the league in stats that don't include goaltending.
Terrible possession numbers despite having a good roster.
And people here want us to succeed man. I don't care if it's Therrien who's the coach but we've got to play a lot better than we did. Our record in games where we scored one goal or less was something like 15-14-2. That's not an indication of playing well it's an indication that our goalie steals us games. We shouldn't have to steal games to make the playoffs.
Hopefully we improve this year. We've got a good roster that's even better than last years. No reason for us to be bottom third everywhere. And Therrien has shown that he can have this team play well... we did it in 2013. Let's hope he wakes up and has us playing well. This team is a legit contender now. Our forwards aren't best in the league but our netminding and blueline is. We can win a cup with this lineup.
Mr Jackpot
Registered User
It's because of Therrien if we're bottom third in stats and if we have terrible possession numbers? It's not because the group of players we have average skills compared to other teams?
Is there a possibility, that you as a fan, overate your team skills?
If we had "average" skills, we would be in the 12-18 range, you know, where the average should fall. Except we dont have "average" skills. We have a lot of great players. What we also have is a coach who preaches "da safe play, risk free hockey", and the players are told "if you sense pressure, just get rid of the puck, its better to give the puck away and be ready defensively instead of the low chance the puck gets lost while trying to maintain an attack and we arent ready defensively". Thats why with our "above average" players, we fell "below average".
Lafleurs Guy
Guuuuuuuy!
- Jul 20, 2007
- 75,824
- 46,088
If you think this team sucked in their play then why credit the coach and not the goalie? Give us a reason to credit him when we played so badly.
A young center selected third overall (who he played on the wing), one of the best bluelines in the league and some good players (including a star left winger up front)... it's not like he had nothing to work with. His lineups didn't make sense. His systems didn't/don't make sense. PP sucked... What exactly did this guy do well?
He had an eventual cup winning team bottom third in possession numbers and out of the playoffs. This is nothing new.
Like I said, I hope he improves. Apparently the chip and chase (something that has been a failure since it was implemented) might be de-emphasized this year. Our possession numbers tanked with it's introduction about 15 games into 2014 so why stick with it? Hopefully John Liu is right. If he is, that's half the battle right there.
I'll wait and see and I'll hope for the best. It's a new season so fingers crossed.
Habit11
Registered User
- Dec 18, 2009
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I think a lot of the things people wanted to see last year will happen to start the season:
Galchenyuk at center
Eller in the top 6
DD out of the top 6
Drastic change to the PP
Also, if the last 2 or 3 games of the preseason are an accurate predictor, there was much less dump outs of the d-zone and dump ins to the o-zone, and fewer unnecessary icings/neutral zone turnovers trying to connect on stretch passes or hail mary air bombs. It seemed like the forwards were coming back deeper to breakout than what we saw for good chunks of last season.
The real indicator of whether or not the team is better this season is if Price doesn't have to be as ridiculously good as he was. If that happens, Therrien should get credit for improving those areas that were lacking last season.
Galchenyuk at center
Eller in the top 6
DD out of the top 6
Drastic change to the PP
Also, if the last 2 or 3 games of the preseason are an accurate predictor, there was much less dump outs of the d-zone and dump ins to the o-zone, and fewer unnecessary icings/neutral zone turnovers trying to connect on stretch passes or hail mary air bombs. It seemed like the forwards were coming back deeper to breakout than what we saw for good chunks of last season.
The real indicator of whether or not the team is better this season is if Price doesn't have to be as ridiculously good as he was. If that happens, Therrien should get credit for improving those areas that were lacking last season.
Mr Jackpot
Registered User
Ok seriously I won't waste my time with this because it's ridiculous reading things like "eventual cup winning team"
There's no team in history that can win the Cup with Plekanec and Desharnais as their first two centers, I don't care if you have Bobby Orr in defense and Bernard Parent in goal, YOU WILL NEVER WIN THE CUP WITH DESHARNAIS AND PLEKANEC AS YOUR FIRST 2 CENTERS.
Again, you as a fan, overate this team skills.
This is another exemple of a fan overating his team skills.
You can't just say "oh we have great players", you have to compare your team to other teams in the league, this is called objectivity.
....guess you don't like 110point seasons and playoff appearances. Let me guess....the system is absolute flawed and Price is the absolute only reason we have any type of success??...Pacioretty, Subban, Gallagher, Plekanec, Galchenyuk, Markov have no say whatsoever??I can't believe he's still our coachI hope he has a short leash this season.
His lack of stability with the lines, and his preference of players and their playing time, just drives me insane. Here's hoping he's changed, and his favorites don't get all the powerplay/offensive time.... again.
If Therrien was as bad as people say here, Bergevin and Dudley would've identified his ineptitude and fired him a long time ago.
Agreed. There's probably Ramsay's input and also Bergevin, who went out and got some skilled players. Therrien knows this team has to score more goals this year.
How is it ridiculous?
The 2009 Penguins were OUT of the playoffs under Therrien. Therrien gets canned, and Bylsma takes the SAME team to the stanley cup. Is there some way to win the cup when you dont make the playoffs? Did the Kings not get that memo?
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Mr Jackpot
Registered User
I don't really understand your post but I will just say this, there's two group of teams: cup contenders teams and non-cup contenders teams. Sorry for my french. The Habs last year we're not a cup contender team.
The Kings are a cup contender team, I don't care if they missed the playoffs last year, the 2 years the Kings won the cup in 2012 and 2014 they finished 8th and 6th in their conference.
Pick which one you want to argue...
Are you arguing that the 2009 Pens were "a cup winning team"? Because when MT was at the helm, they werent in the playoffs. You dont win the stanley cup by not being in the playoffs.
Are you arguing that the 2016 Habs are "not a cup contending team?" I think a team that finished first in their division in 2 of the past 2 years, and made it to the ECF that year they didnt finish first in their division means they're definitely a cup contending team. Sure, a good chunk of that is Price, no doubt...does that mean they're not a cup contending team?
Are you arguing that the 2009 Pens were "a cup winning team"? Because when MT was at the helm, they werent in the playoffs. You dont win the stanley cup by not being in the playoffs.
Are you arguing that the 2016 Habs are "not a cup contending team?" I think a team that finished first in their division in 2 of the past 2 years, and made it to the ECF that year they didnt finish first in their division means they're definitely a cup contending team. Sure, a good chunk of that is Price, no doubt...does that mean they're not a cup contending team?
OnTheRun
/dev/null
- May 17, 2014
- 12,245
- 10,771
Try clear regression in term of team's stats since the Jacques Martin's era (Weaker team) and probably Carbo's era (TBC) at this point.
How does one think Therrien is doing a good job managing this team is beyond me. The guy spent the last 2 years in utter denial about the PP, blaming the players and shrugging it off with some dumb traffic analogies. It got to the point where the GM had to bypass him to acknowledge the issue and bring someone from the outside.
The team record improved because our core is vastly improved AND we have the best keeper in the world who just happen to be a ****ing workhorse able to handle 65~70 starts per season. Yet our numbers are closer to the Carolina Hurricane and the likes than any good teams in the league. Therrien is just riding the wave.
Mr Jackpot
Registered User
I mean this is so funny...
Who was the Pittsburgh coach when they reached the cup finals the year before? The same Pittsburgh that finished 30th in the league before Therrien took over.
2003-04 Pittsburgh 30th in the league
2004-05 lock out
2005-06 Ed Olczyk is fired, Therrien take over a very very young team with Letang, Fleury, Staal and Talbot all in their early 20's
2007-08 Pittsburgh in the Cup finals
MT is getting an audition again this year.
If we don't see a better brand of hockey out of this team with the talent we have something needs to be done. Sure people want to be win but when folks spend hundreds of dollars to go to the Bell Center and the scoreboard and sideshows are more compelling than the actual product on the ice there is a problem.
There were a number of games I attended last year where this seemed to be the case.
If we don't see a better brand of hockey out of this team with the talent we have something needs to be done. Sure people want to be win but when folks spend hundreds of dollars to go to the Bell Center and the scoreboard and sideshows are more compelling than the actual product on the ice there is a problem.
There were a number of games I attended last year where this seemed to be the case.
Thats nice and all, this is all that matters in regards to this discussion
Jan 2009: Penguins are out of the playoffs with Therrien coaching
Feb 2009: Penguins fire Therrien, and hire Bylsma, SAME ROSTER
June 2009: Penguins win the stanley cup, something they would NOT have done with Therrien coaching because THEY WERE NOT IN THE PLAYOFFS.
And lets see who the penguins added between 2004 when they were 30th in the league, and 2006 when Therrien was hired "taking over a very very young team":
Sidney Crosby, an elite generational talent
Evgeni Malkin, another elite talent
Not just one, but TWO, TWO gamebreakers were added to that lineup.
Mr Jackpot
Registered User
OnTheRun
/dev/null
- May 17, 2014
- 12,245
- 10,771
Anyway, how does a good/great coach goes from SCF to full on mutiny in the span of ~6 months?
How come his GM didn't support him AT ALL, if he was the savior like Mr Jackpot is alluding?
Mystery...Mystery...Mystery, the sad thing is in 2-3 Therrien's thread, the myth of his greatness with the Pens will have to be debunked once again.
Mr Jackpot
Registered User
And I dont even get your point about Pittsburgh not making the playoff in 2009, the Kings finished 8th in 2012 and missed the playoffs last year.
Something that needs to be considered.
Most teams that reach the SCF and fall short are wound up from day 1 the following year.
The fact that MT's team were not even in a playoff position would have been very alarming to the Brass.
Mr Jackpot
Registered User
The only way, we as fans, can judge if a coach is good or not, is by looking
at his record over a decent sample size (at least 6-7 years). There's no other
way we can judge if he's good or not because we're not qualified.
We think we are qualified, everyone think they know everything about hockey, but we
are clueless:
-we don't follow the team
-we don't know the players
-we have zero NHL experience
-and on and on
Having said that, here's Michel Therrien's record after he took over a team,
with before and after standings:
2003-04 Pittsburgh 30th in the league
2004-05 lock out
2005-06 Ed Olczyk is fired, Therrien take over
2007-08 Pittsburgh in the Cup finals
2011-12 Montreal 15th in the East
Therrien takes over
2012-13 Montreal 2nd in the East
2013-14 Montreal 100 pts
2014-15 Montreal 110 pts
at his record over a decent sample size (at least 6-7 years). There's no other
way we can judge if he's good or not because we're not qualified.
We think we are qualified, everyone think they know everything about hockey, but we
are clueless:
-we don't follow the team
-we don't know the players
-we have zero NHL experience
-and on and on
Having said that, here's Michel Therrien's record after he took over a team,
with before and after standings:
2003-04 Pittsburgh 30th in the league
2004-05 lock out
2005-06 Ed Olczyk is fired, Therrien take over
2007-08 Pittsburgh in the Cup finals
2011-12 Montreal 15th in the East
Therrien takes over
2012-13 Montreal 2nd in the East
2013-14 Montreal 100 pts
2014-15 Montreal 110 pts
Mr Jackpot
Registered User
I have no argument to that because what you said makes no sense whatsoever.
The penguins ultimately made the playoffs in 2009, and won the cup (under Bylsma, not Therrien).
I have no idea what the heck the kings finishing 8th in 2012 has anything to do with the 2015 season.
2014-15 should read as follows:
- Status
