There is nothing wrong with Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares.

[awegrzyn]

People follow general trends and general opinions. Hence, their analysis of Toronto is off. There is nothing wrong with players in the "CoreFore" except they are together on the same team. Once they separate they will win. This is not a full picture, but the stats paint a completely different picture:

1. Points Per Game are exactly the same for those 4 players as in Regular Season.
2. The playoffs "elevated" game, people talk about, by McDavid and Dri is actually the same in terms of Points Per Game in the playoffs.
3. Alex Barkov is (watch out) 9th on Panters in the playoffs in terms of scoring for Points Per Game.
4. Core 4 scores on average 1 point per game in regular season and in the playoffs. How much more do you want from them when other stars produce them same.
5. Only Rantanen out scores the Toronto Core 4. The rest of Dallas does not even get close to Toronto scoring.

The problem is somewhere else. Just look at the playoffs stats for both Toronto and Florida and compare Points Per Game. You will get the correct answer. The Toronto team is simply build wrong. That's on management. They ran into Florida that is build as the best team right now. There is no way for Toronto to win this. Just compare their production across the team. Toronto is not overrated. It actually is underrated, and goes as far in the playoffs as their build allows them.

 

[NotAVacuumSalesman]

What’s wrong with Morgan Rielly?

 

[notbias]

People follow general trends and general opinions. Hence, their analysis of Toronto is off. There is nothing wrong with players in the "CoreFore" except they are together on the same team. Once they separate they will win. This is not a full picture, but the stats paint a completely different picture:

1. Points Per Game are exactly the same for those 4 players as in Regular Season.
2. The playoffs "elevated" game, people talk about, by McDavid and Dri is actually the same in terms of Points Per Game in the playoffs.
3. Alex Barkov is (watch out) 9th on Panters in the playoffs in terms of scoring for Points Per Game.
4. Core 4 scores on average 1 point per game in regular season and in the playoffs. How much more do you want from them when other stars produce them same.
5. Only Rantanen out scores the Toronto Core 4. The rest of Dallas does not even get close to Toronto scoring.

The problem is somewhere else. Just look at the playoffs stats for both Toronto and Florida and compare Points Per Game. You will get the correct answer. The Toronto team is simply build wrong. That's on management. They ran into Florida that is build as the best team right now. There is no way for Toronto to win this. Just compare their production across the team. Toronto is not overrated. It actually is underrated, and goes as far in the playoffs as their build allows them.

The biggest issue with the Leafs is their lack of depth scoring... I always say this, but they get no help at all, they live and die with the core 4.

You can just sort by points and you can clearly see where the bottom 6 starts.

Depth scoring every single year has been a massive issue, they always get more defensive instead of addressing it.

Still, the core 4 are an issue, Florida is shutting them down fairly well.

What’s wrong with Morgan Rielly?

Nothing, he is an offensive D who is putting up good points, has some defensive lapses but overall has great numbers.

The fanbase has just turned on him cause they like shiny new toys that can't score and want to win every game 1-0.

 

[CaptainBenn]

yeah nothing wrong thats why matthews is like 0W-7L in every single do or die game of his career

 

[notbias]

yeah nothing wrong thats why matthews is like 0W-7L in every single do or die game of his career

Kucherov has zero game 7 points and his team still seems to win a few of them.

I think Matthews needs to play better, but hockey is a team sport, sometimes you need people to step up who don't normally do it, Leafs never get run support outside of the top players.

 

[sbhnur]

"Points Per Game are exactly the same for those 4 players as in Regular Season."

 

[NVious]

The only thing bad about them is their playoff performances and record.

Apart from that, they are awesome in the way that serial killers are peaceful (they don't kill on most days).

 

[KAWAIlllI]

Alright, (I don’t agree with you) then get rid of one or two of those contracts, Marners and Tavares, so that the Leafs can get better depth players that can support Nylander, Knies and Matthews

 

[Juxta Position]

People follow general trends and general opinions. Hence, their analysis of Toronto is off. There is nothing wrong with players in the "CoreFore" except they are together on the same team. Once they separate they will win. This is not a full picture, but the stats paint a completely different picture:

1. Points Per Game are exactly the same for those 4 players as in Regular Season.
2. The playoffs "elevated" game, people talk about, by McDavid and Dri is actually the same in terms of Points Per Game in the playoffs.
3. Alex Barkov is (watch out) 9th on Panters in the playoffs in terms of scoring for Points Per Game.
4. Core 4 scores on average 1 point per game in regular season and in the playoffs. How much more do you want from them when other stars produce them same.
5. Only Rantanen out scores the Toronto Core 4. The rest of Dallas does not even get close to Toronto scoring.

The problem is somewhere else. Just look at the playoffs stats for both Toronto and Florida and compare Points Per Game. You will get the correct answer. The Toronto team is simply build wrong. That's on management. They ran into Florida that is build as the best team right now. There is no way for Toronto to win this. Just compare their production across the team. Toronto is not overrated. It actually is underrated, and goes as far in the playoffs as their build allows them.

Literally nothing you said is true.

you are looking at a small sample size. Here's the correct PPG numbers:


Marner: Regular season 1.12ppg Matthews: Regular season 1.15ppg
Playoffs. 0.91ppg Playoffs 0.87ppg


Nylander: Regular season 0.89ppg Tavares: Regular season 0.94ppg
Playoffs 0.89ppg Playoffs 0.72

All of them, minus Nylander, who stays the same, get significantly worse in the playoffs. Here's your comparison:


McDavid: Regular season 1.51ppg Draisaitl: Regular season 1.21ppg
Playoffs 1.57 Playoffs 1.47

Both players' ppg goes up in the playoffs, in Draisaitl's case, a significant amount. The Leafs players do not even slightly elevate in the playoffs, and in 3 out of 4 cases, get much, much worse.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The biggest issue with the Leafs is their lack of depth scoring... I always say this, but they get no help at all, they live and die with the core 4.

Their biggest issues is - and always has been - that their best players don't score when it matters.

It's not goaltending. It's not secondary scoring. It's not defense...

They are built to score their way out of problems and those guys haven't delivered when it matters. They've played well early in a lot of series but then just seem to go away.

The good news for them... this series isn't over. Still time to change things. But it's up to them to do it. Nylander is the only guy who's really been consistent.

 

[Romang67]

People follow general trends and general opinions. Hence, their analysis of Toronto is off. There is nothing wrong with players in the "CoreFore" except they are together on the same team. Once they separate they will win. This is not a full picture, but the stats paint a completely different picture:

1. Points Per Game are exactly the same for those 4 players as in Regular Season.

Why would you make this your first point? That would be the first point people double check to see if it's true.

If Matthews scored at the same rate in the regular season as he has in the playoffs, he'd have 175 fewer regular season points. That's not touching on specifically his goal scoring, which where his drop-off in the playoffs is the most notable.

Marner would have 142 points less in the regular season if he produced at the same rate as he does in the playoffs.

Tavares, looking only at his playoff scoring with Toronto, has scored 33 points in 49 games. Obviously that's not the same rate as his regular season scoring.

Nylander hovers right around the same scoring rate, but I haven't gotten the impression that people target him as the player who falls off in the playoffs.

 

[Dread Clawz]

Their biggest issues is - and always has been - that their best players don't score when it matters.

It's not goaltending. It's not secondary scoring. It's not defense...

They are built to score their way out of problems and those guys haven't delivered when it matters. They've played well early in a lot of series but then just seem to go away.

The good news for them... this series isn't over. Still time to change things. But it's up to them to do it. Nylander is the only guy who's really been consistent.

As a Panthers fan, Nylander shouldn't be included with the other three. He delivers in the playoffs and earns his salary.

 

[notbias]

As a Panthers fan, Nylander shouldn't be included with the other three. He delivers in the playoffs and earns his salary.

And produces less than Marner and the same as Matthews...

Also, cheats a lot to create offense.

Other than that, 100% correct.

 

[Clint Eastwood]

They need to step up sure, but they get no offensive depth.

Marner (and almost everyone) had an atrocious game 5. I think even Ray Ferraro said he was a fool on one of his turnovers. I understand being limited by the Panthers when guys like Barkov, Reinhart, Lundell, Forsling are opposing you which is where you hope your offensive depth can step up.

Also I'd stop lumping Nylander in with these guys. He's a beast in the playoffs and has been for some time now.

 

[elmaco]

The big 4 are all soft, timid players. You don't win a cup with those.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Kucherov has zero game 7 points and his team still seems to win a few of them.

I think Matthews needs to play better, but hockey is a team sport, sometimes you need people to step up who don't normally do it, Leafs never get run support outside of the top players.

Matthews has the highest cap hit in the NHL because he is a goal scorer, and his goal scoring in the play-off falls by about half compared to the regular season. That is a HUGE problem.

When your top 4 players are all forward, and they take up more than half the salary cap - THEY HAVE TO PERFORM. You can't blame the "depth" for not scoring when they are some combination of retreads, suspects, or never-were's.

I agree that depth is hugely important in the play-off's, which is why you don't want >50% of your cap $'s committed to 4 forward. But if you do chose to build your team like that, those guys have to contribute if you want a chance to win.

 

[notbias]

Matthews has the highest cap hit in the NHL because he is a goal scorer, and his goal scoring in the play-off falls by about half compared to the regular season. That is a HUGE problem.

When your top 4 players are all forward, and they take up more than half the salary cap - THEY HAVE TO PERFORM. You can't blame the "depth" for not scoring when they are some combination of retreads, suspects, or never-were's.

I agree that depth is hugely important in the play-off's, which is why you don't want >50% of your cap $'s committed to 4 forward. But if you do chose to build your team like that, those guys have to contribute.

Agreed it's a problem, but it's not the only problem.

No team is winning with the depth scoring Toronto is getting right now.

Florida has about the same amount of cap in 4 forwards + goaltending as Toronto has in 4 forwards + goaltending.

 

[NotAVacuumSalesman]

And produces less than Marner and the same as Matthews...

Also, cheats a lot to create offense.

Other than that, 100% correct.

It’s the playoffs.. you score however you can. You going criticize him for trying to win?

 

[notbias]

It’s the playoffs.. you score however you can. You going criticize him for trying to win?

I'm criticizing him for getting scored on, which you also need to limit to win.

 

[KAWAIlllI]

And produces less than Marner and the same as Matthews...

Also, cheats a lot to create offense.

Other than that, 100% correct.

The post I quoted proves that the poster agenda is to protect his “boys” and s**t on Nylander - a trait that the poster and a few others share in the Leafs forum

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

The problem is, outside of Nylander, they have no heart and do not seem to give a shit.

 

[ottawagm]

You can't be paying that much for players who don't lead in the playoffs and expect to win.

 

[sampollock]

The big 4 are all soft, timid players. You don't win a cup with those.

why is this thread started

 

[WetcoastOrca]

The biggest issue with the Leafs is their lack of depth scoring... I always say this, but they get no help at all, they live and die with the core 4.

View attachment 1037248

You can just sort by points and you can clearly see where the bottom 6 starts.

Depth scoring every single year has been a massive issue, they always get more defensive instead of addressing it.

Still, the core 4 are an issue, Florida is shutting them down fairly well.



Nothing, he is an offensive D who is putting up good points, has some defensive lapses but overall has great numbers.

The fanbase has just turned on him cause they like shiny new toys that can't score and want to win every game 1-0.

Nonsense. The biggest issue with the Leafs is their core 4.
It’s always easier for hardcore fans like yourself to blame the support players rather than blaming the underperforming stars.
It’s been the same thing the last 8 years with the core 4 underperforming despite a revolving door of support players.

 

[sampollock]

Nonsense. The biggest issue with the Leafs is their core 4.
It’s always easier for hardcore fans to blame the support players rather than the underperforming stars.
It’s been the same thing the last 8 years with the core 4.

core 5 with Reils the wonder D man