Blue Jays Discussion: The trade deadline approaches (Tue, Aug 2 at 6pm ET/3pm PT) and the market is taking shape

[hockeywiz542]

So Blair is tweeting out that no one on the 25 man roster is untouchable in a Ohtani trade which perked my ears up. He continues and says, Moreno would one piece, they’d think hard on Orelvis but Tiedemann might be the 3rd piece that halts things. First off where is Blair getting this info and secondly if this info is true then maybe the Jays are actually trying to get Ohtani

Blair meant Ohtani/Soto

Blair says some teams see Moreno come off the plate. Hmmm

 

[Brock Boeser Laser Show]

Buy low on relievers. Someone that has a good track record but having sub par season.

Top prospects should only be moved for someone with 2+ years of control unless the organization has really soured on a prospect.

Important to remember that Tiedemann, Moreno, Martinez, etc are cheap and can help us next year. We don't have any impending free agents that make this year a year you have to put all the chips on the table. Building a strong roster for the next two years is just as important as this year. I think we will probably be the best team in the AL next year ( specially if Judge leaves the Yankees) and I like our world series odds better than this year.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[hockeywiz542]

Another reliever name off the market.

 

[stats1]

The Rockies are a terrible organization. How the hell do you trade Arenado and Story because you don’t want to pay them but then turn around and give Bard 19 million???? 8.5 million a year for a f***ing relief pitcher. Jesus Christ

Sorry 9.5 lol

 

[Kurtz]

The Rockies are a terrible organization. How the hell do you trade Arenado and Story because you don’t want to pay them but then turn around and give Bard 19 million???? 8.5 million a year for a f***ing relief pitcher. Jesus Christ

Sorry 9.5 lol

Story is mediocre when he's not playing on Colorado - it was a good call to let him go and a big blunder by the Sox to give him that $140 mil.

Smart orgs have long realized the value in investing in quality relievers. Colorado definitely should have sold high on 37-year old Bard though, that one's a head-scratcher.

 

[Cloned]

Speaking of Colorado, Grichuk’s numbers this year are … woof.

.252. BA
.697 OPS
9 HR

With half his games in Colorado.

 

[trellaine201]

The Rockies are a terrible organization. How the hell do you trade Arenado and Story because you don’t want to pay them but then turn around and give Bard 19 million???? 8.5 million a year for a f***ing relief pitcher. Jesus Christ

Sorry 9.5 lol

Story is questionable for his salary for sure. I am sure glad we didn’t end up with him. It was reported we were very interested last summer. $20M. No thanks.

 

[MS]

The hopeless Rockies re-signing their 37 y/o closer instead of trading him for a haul is absolutely hilarious.

Speaking of Colorado, Grichuk’s numbers this year are … woof.

.252. BA
.697 OPS
9 HR

With half his games in Colorado.

He has a .542 OPS on the road.

I wasn't a big fan but I thought he'd put up some nice baseball card numbers in Colorado (like 30 HR/100 RBI but with an OPS+ of 98 or something). Instead he's just totally lost it.

 

[MAB1]

1. Bichette (96.7) + Moreno (69.9) + Groshans (12.9) for J. Soto (176.8) + Finnegan (0.3)
Finnegan is a high-velo RHP with good #'s this year and 2020 while 2021 wasn't as kind. Under control till 2026 but 30 years old which might not be of use for a rebuilding Nats team.

2. Jimenez (4.6) + Pearson (5) + Robberse (3.9) for G. Soto (11) + Fulmer (2.4)

Espinal goes to SS full-time, Biggio plays 2B full-time. Tiedmann, Martinez, Lopez remain from the top 5. Maybe optimistic but perhaps Martinez is ready to replace Chapman when he reaches free agency which gives Martinez another year of development. Rotation stays the same but now you've got Cimber, Mayza, Finnegan, Fulmer, Garcia, Soto, Romano as the bullpen.

If I were the Jays after seeing the price for Castillo, I'd shore up the bullpen and go hard after Verlander in the offseason if he turns down his player option. With Ryu off the books after next season and Kikuchi the year after that, it opens up a spot for Tiedmann to hopefully step-in ala Manoah and give the Jays another cheap #1/2 starter. That kind of value will be huge when the time would come to give Soto and Vladdy their mega-extensions.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Rosenthal: Pursuits of Juan Soto, Frankie Montas forcing Cardinals into uncomfortable position

Whatever the Cardinals do — or don’t do — they are going to be uncomfortable. The Castillo trade ensured it, if it wasn’t the case already.

theathletic.com

Preller runs his club with similar urgency, but like Dipoto, has yet to truly succeed; the Padres have not made the playoffs in a full season since Preller’s hiring in Aug. 2014. The Cardinals, under owner Bill DeWitt and GM John Mozeliak, take an approach that is almost the polar opposite of the Padres’. Their formula is to always walk a fine line between present and future. And it works exceedingly well.

Only the Yankees and Dodgers have won more regular-season games this century. The Cardinals have captured two World Series, four National League pennants and 11 division titles since DeWitt became owner in 1996. And though they typically draft low as a product of their success, their farm system is perhaps the strongest it has been since Mozeliak became the team’s top executive after the 2007 season.

Thus, an argument can be made that now is the time to strike for Soto, who is 23, one of the best hitters in the sport and under club control for three pennant races. For all the Cardinals’ talk of staying responsible and disciplined, their 2022 season is more vital than most. This is the last year for Albert Pujols, Yadier Molina and possibly Adam Wainwright. Paul Goldschmidt is having an MVP-type season, and Nolan Arenado also might finish in the top five, then opt out of his contract.

The Cardinals play excellent defense, run the bases well and play in a weak division. The chance to acquire a player like Soto is one reason teams build up their farm systems. But the Cardinals’ position-player group, ranking fourth in fWAR and ninth in runs per game, is not the problem. And their outfield shouldn’t be an issue if Tyler O’Neill regains his 2021 form and Harrison Bader returns from plantar fasciitis in September.

The team’s greater need by far, because of injuries to Jack Flaherty and Steven Matz and a variety of other concerns, is starting pitching.

Frankie Montas is one of the starters the Cardinals are pursuing. The Athletics, according to sources, want some of the same prospects for Montas that the Nationals want for Soto. And it would be completely out of character for the Cardinals to part with the number of players necessary to acquire Soto for two-plus years and Montas for one-plus.

The last established hitter the Cardinals added at the deadline was Brandon Moss in 2015 (O’Neill had not yet played in the majors when he arrived from the Mariners in 2017). When they trade for big-name sluggers, it’s usually in the offseason. With Goldschmidt and Matt Holliday, a deadline rental, they had an idea they might sign those players long-term. With Arenado and Marcell Ozuna, they acquired multiple years of club control. The Ozuna move, which cost them Sandy Alcantara and Zac Gallen, was the only one of those trades that was damaging.

Those deals were necessary because the Cardinals needed to fill holes at positions where they mostly lacked internal solutions. Such a gap does not currently exist in their outfield. Bader is under club control through 2023, O’Neill through 2024, Dylan Carlson through 2026, super utility-man Brendan Donovan through 2028. And other outfielders are rising through their system.

Obviously, none of those players is Soto. And while the Cardinals certainly could afford Soto’s arbitration salaries in 2023 and 2024, their history suggests they would not pay the $500 million-plus that Soto’s agent, Scott Boras, is expected to seek if the outfielder hits the open market. Meanwhile, they lack swing-and-miss in both their rotation and bullpen. The addition of a starter would enable them to move Andre Pallante, who is nearing a career-high in innings pitched, to relief, strengthening their pitching as a whole.

The problem, of course, is that the trade market for starting pitchers is thin. If the acquisition cost for Montas is in the range of Castillo’s — and it likely will be, with the Yankees involved and one executive saying Montas might have both a higher ceiling than Castillo and higher floor — will the Cardinals be willing to pay that price? Would they meet it for the Marlins’ Pablo López, who comes with two additional years of control? Or would they prefer the rental market, which includes the Angels’ Noah Syndergaard, Pirates’ José Quintana and possibly the Red Sox’s Nathan Eovaldi and Giants’ Carlos Rodón? The prices for those pitchers should be more reasonable. But after Castillo, they might be higher than expected, too.

Put it all together, and the best solution for the Cardinals might be to acquire Soto and try to outscore everyone, then address the rotation in the offseason. But that brings us back to Preller, who nearly signed Soto as an amateur and might just keep raising the ante until he gets his man. “No way he gives up on Soto,” one rival executive said of Preller. “He’s the only one who will keep giving more and more.”

Preller, mind you, does not always get what he wants — the Dodgers outbid him at last year’s deadline for Max Scherzer and Trea Turner. Nationals GM Mike Rizzo, who some in the industry believe received too light a package for Scherzer and Turner, might not even trade Soto. If no team makes an offer Rizzo deems acceptable, he could simply hold Soto until the offseason, when the player’s value still will be quite high and the sale of the Nationals should be closer to resolution.

Whatever the Cardinals do — or don’t do — they are going to be uncomfortable. The Luis Castillo trade ensured as much, if it wasn’t the case already.

 

[phillipmike]

Another reliever name off the market.

Martin went for dirty cheap. Close to 12 K/9 and 1.15 walk per 9 and averages 95mph. Would have been a good add. Battle tested in the playoffs from 2019-21 and won a WS last year.

 

[red devil]

 

[Blitzkrug]

Peralta is a sneaky good bargain bin type add.

Left handed bat with pop, currently sitting an an OPS of .777. slugging above .400 as of now too

Would have been almost a perfect fit for this lineup.

 

[phillipmike]

Nice to see a lot of trades happening early. Should be a fun weekend.

Also, with the concern of Springer's health, wondering if we can get an MLB optional CF to replace Zimmer. and be a long term option.

Unlikely to happen as they just got him and he is performing but Drew Waters from KC interests me a lot. KC's 8th ranked prospect, great CF defense, switch hitter, gets on base and is fast.

KC doesnt have a long term 2B or 3B in the system nor do they have many OFs though they took Cross in the first round - so still unlikely they trade Waters. Nicky Lopez was a 6 WAR player last season for them, he is solid at 2B but has been playing 3B. Merrifield is almost 34 and isnt performing, his 2024 option of $18M is likely going to be declined.

Waters has a trade value of 3 and Otto Lopez with 6.

Waters (3) and Merrifield (1) for Lopez (6) could be interesting. Merrifield can replace Zimmer. Average defense at 2B and OF, plays some CF too and is a great base runner. And Waters in waiting in CF.

 

[Blitzkrug]

Fun must be always.

The curmudgeon crowd is going to absolutely love this revelation lmao.

 

[Dr.Funk]

Fun must be always.

The curmudgeon crowd is going to absolutely love this revelation lmao.

Head must be exploding. They thought Montoya was involved in too much of the fun LOL

 

[Dr.Funk]

 

[phillipmike]

Rodon and Peterson for Groshans checks out value wise. Can add arms and even Lopez to get it done.

 

[phillipmike]

Another trade chip like Otto Lopez getting hot at the right time.

 

[stats1]

Jays have scouts at the Mets-Marlins game. Pablo Lopez is the guy they are watching

 

[weems]

Dahian Santos with a very good start today.
Wouldn't be suprised if he's a 3rd/4th piece in a deal for a impact player.

 

[stats1]

Sorry Lopez pitches tomorrow

 

[phillipmike]

 

[stats1]

Let’s just a deal gets worked out, Lopez is still under control for 2 more years after this one. Right up Atkins alley.