The Tank Megathread | 8 | The Tank Awakens

[Cupless44]

If Vancouver Losses the next 2 I think that seals the deal for the deadline.

Benning wouldn't be that dumb to hold onto players after that.

This week is huge.

Lose on this road trip and even Benning will have to stop the nonsense about talking about playoffs and get cracking on what he should be doing.

 

[Snatcher Demko]

This week is huge.

Lose on this road trip and even Benning will have to stop the nonsense about talking about playoffs and get cracking on what he should be doing.

I'd expect him to still say all the right things (win every game, believe in the team, playoffs, yada yada yada) but his actions certainly should be to sell every UFA on the roster and then some.

I'm pretty sure this is how things will play out.

Tanking openly and deliberately is like fostering cancer. Shouldn't be done but selling off veterans while expecting the team to still play its ass off is IMO the best way to go.

 

[Horse McHindu]

The sensible thing is to sell off the veterans on expiring contracts and try to improve our draft position.

Great overall post LeftCoast.

Your sentence that I'm quoting is exactly how I feel by the way.

My point of contention with the 'tank' crowd, is that they want to sell off practically everyone that is 27 or over. My stance is that by doing this, it would actually hurt the rebuilding process as the team would be put in a position where they'd have to play young players in roles that they are too green for (i.e. Horvat as a #1 C, Hutton as a top pairing D man, Markstrom being expected to bail out what would be an incredibly weak and thin defense).

One thing the Canucks did extremely well these past 15 years, is developing and gradually pushing guys like Naslund, Bertuzzi, twins, Kesler, Schneider, Horvat, etc.

The tank crowd don't seem to realize that there's a lot more to a rebuild than simply immediately selling off all vets and stockpiling on draft picks.

Over the next few years, the Canucks will have plenty of draft picks anyways if they just focus on selling/trading vets on expiring contracts (i.e. Vrbata/Hammer this year, Miller/Burrows next year, Sedins/Hansen in 2018, Edler in 2020).

 

[Hammer79]

If we took that position with guys like Linden in the 90's we never would have gotten the Sedins, or Luongo. Seems kinda like a bad move to not consider moving them.

So we just need to find;
* a dark horse team that is a Sedin twin pairing away from a cup

* a team with $14M in cap space free until 2018, since with NMC's they aren't going to agree to being split up

* a team that would be willing to give us back anything meaningful in exchange, when they are jumping through hoops to fit $14M onto their cap

* a team they would be willing to waive their NMC's to go to. They might just decide to return to Sweden rather than moving their families to another NHL city.

When you actually consider what such a trade involves, you begin to understand why it won't happen unless the Sedin's make trade demands. IMO it's over-simplifying the situation to compare this to the Linden or Luongo trades.

 

[CanaFan]

Great overall post LeftCoast.

Your sentence that I'm quoting is exactly how I feel by the way.

My point of contention with the 'tank' crowd, is that they want to sell off practically everyone that is 27 or over. My stance is that by doing this, it would actually hurt the rebuilding process as the team would be put in a position where they'd have to play young players in roles that they are too green for (i.e. Horvat as a #1 C, Hutton as a top pairing D man, Markstrom being expected to bail out what would be an incredibly weak and thin defense).

One thing the Canucks did extremely well these past 15 years, is developing and gradually pushing guys like Naslund, Bertuzzi, twins, Kesler, Schneider, Horvat, etc.

The tank crowd don't seem to realize that there's a lot more to a rebuild than simply immediately selling off all vets and stockpiling on draft picks.

Over the next few years, the Canucks will have plenty of draft picks anyways if they just focus on selling/trading vets on expiring contracts (i.e. Vrbata/Hammer this year, Miller/Burrows next year, Sedins/Hansen in 2018, Edler in 2020).

Don't think *most* tankists want that at all. We want to trade away expiring assets for sure. Some would trade Burrows but most seem content to keep him around for his good service and fact that he wouldn't garner much anyways. Some would trade the Sedins but sentiment seems mostly against it. Most would trade Edler for the right deal but that could just as easily be a 'hockey trade' with another player (not picks/prospects) coming back. Haven't heard much talk about moving Sutter, Tanev, or Hansen. Dorsett, Bartowski, and Sbisa are garbage and we would benefit just by not having them but ostensibly we would replace them with other vets/role players in the appropriate pay grade.

So I don't think most tankists want every player over 30 on the team gone, at least not all this season. But we do want certain ones gone - expiring contracts, garbage like Dorsett, Sbisa, Bartowski - and maybe if there is a chance to sell high on someone like Hansen and get a stupid return back. But Sedins, Burrows, Edler, Tanev, Sutter are more or less all welcome to stick around for the forseeable future as more youth develops and moves up the line up order.

 

[SillyRabbit]

Ahhh YES it's so simplE!

God damn your posts are intellectually dishonest.

Already trying to lower expectations for when Benning doesn't sell are we?

Sorry, but no matter how hard you try to argue that a rebuilding team trading veterans at the deadline is "not that simple," it will be a massive indicator of Bennings incompetence if he isn't a seller at the deadline.

 

[RandV]

If you're choosing mentors/leaders or players to build a culture of a team around I'd much rather have the Sedins than a player like Prust. Far more valuable for the development of the young guys.

Among NHL GM's I think only Benning believes guys like Prust & Dorsett make good 'mentors' for the kids.

 

[me2]

So we just need to find;
* a dark horse team that is a Sedin twin pairing away from a cup

* a team with $14M in cap space free until 2018, since with NMC's they aren't going to agree to being split up

* a team that would be willing to give us back anything meaningful in exchange, when they are jumping through hoops to fit $14M onto their cap

* a team they would be willing to waive their NMC's to go to. They might just decide to return to Sweden rather than moving their families to another NHL city.

When you actually consider what such a trade involves, you begin to understand why it won't happen unless the Sedin's make trade demands. IMO it's over-simplifying the situation to compare this to the Linden or Luongo trades.

$7m not $14m. There is barely a team in the NHL that can't find $7m total for two top players.

 

[Hammer79]

$7m not $14m. There is barely a team in the NHL that can't find $7m total for two top players.

We're not retaining 50% on the Sedin brothers, there's no need to when they are paid fair market value.

Edit:
We can't anyway, we're using one of our salary retention slots on Luongo.

 

[Trelane]

Already trying to lower expectations for when Benning doesn't sell are we?

Sorry, but no matter how hard you try to argue that a rebuilding team trading veterans at the deadline is "not that simple," it will be a massive indicator of Bennings incompetence if he isn't a seller at the deadline.

Except if Aquaman and/or Hammer say NO, there is nothing Benning or any otherwise "competent" GM can do about it.

 

[Proto]

I think the age gap between the Sedin's and the new emerging core is a little too great, making it unlikely that we make any sort of Cup run with the Sedin's on the team. There's a strong chance they may have already played their last playoff game with the Canucks.

Let that sink in.

If things look positive I think they'll play until they're 40. It's just a matter of whether or not this regime is able to get things back on track. They wasted last year (in my opinion) but the team's grotesque performance this season has given them a remarkable opportunity to sell assets and take a run at drafting a game-changing player in a few months. It's possible, at least.

 

[bossram]

Great overall post LeftCoast.

Your sentence that I'm quoting is exactly how I feel by the way.

My point of contention with the 'tank' crowd, is that they want to sell off practically everyone that is 27 or over. My stance is that by doing this, it would actually hurt the rebuilding process as the team would be put in a position where they'd have to play young players in roles that they are too green for (i.e. Horvat as a #1 C, Hutton as a top pairing D man, Markstrom being expected to bail out what would be an incredibly weak and thin defense).

One thing the Canucks did extremely well these past 15 years, is developing and gradually pushing guys like Naslund, Bertuzzi, twins, Kesler, Schneider, Horvat, etc.

The tank crowd don't seem to realize that there's a lot more to a rebuild than simply immediately selling off all vets and stockpiling on draft picks.

Over the next few years, the Canucks will have plenty of draft picks anyways if they just focus on selling/trading vets on expiring contracts (i.e. Vrbata/Hammer this year, Miller/Burrows next year, Sedins/Hansen in 2018, Edler in 2020).

Pretty sure most tankists are in the same boat as you. There are very very few people (maybe only y2k) that want the Sedins to be traded. They are the real mentors on the team, but the other bull that Benning is feeding us about Dorsett and Prust, etc.

Obviously anyone is available for the right price. Guys like Hansen and Edler I'd rather keep unless we happened to get an extremely good offer. Outside of that, fair game. The UFAs should absolutely be shipped out. If we can get anything of value for marginal players (who are vastly overpaid) like Sbisa, Miller, Sutter and Dorsett I would move them too because they really don't add anything to the team besides large cap investments.

I wouldn't sell everyone but the young guys are certainly in line for larger roles. And I would look to shed the dead weight as quickly as possible.

 

[me2]

We're not retaining 50% on the Sedin brothers, there's no need to when they are paid fair market value.

Edit:
We can't anyway, we're using one of our salary retention slots on Luongo.

We have 3 retention slots, and can retain up to 15% of the cap (about $11m).

Retaining salary should be something considered if the team wants a much better return. Given we are surviving to the cap it wedding make any difference to the amount student in salaries $73m vs $67m+7m. You could spend $7m under the floor if you want to save cash.

 

[Reign Nateo]

Talking about trading the Sedins is a waste of bandwidth.

 

[Canucks LB]

I am back on team tank, I really want a top 5 pick this year. Is that so much to ask?.

 

[Skirbs1011]

We need a big loss tonight.

My only worry are the tweets out there from Kyper that Monahan, Gaudreau and Bouma might be scratched for disciplinary reasons. Hopefully Calgary will have enough to still beat the leafs.

 

[VC]

Still mixed on emotions about tanking. I want to watch the team do well every game but realize the need for a prime prospect.

The main reason I want the team to 'tank' is so that more vets are moved so that McCann, Markstrom and Biega can get some more playing time. If it takes Hamhuis being moved so Bartowski moves back to the left and Biega gets back into the lineup, cool. Same as Vrbata getting moved so Vey can slide over to the wing and McCann centres him and Etem would be even better.

Daniel - Henrik - Hansen
Baertschi - Horvat - Burrows
Dorsett - Sutter - Virtanen
Etem - McCann - Vey

Edler - Tanev
Hutton - Sbisa (ugh)
Bartkowski - Biega

Miller
Markstrom

I would be content with that post deadline with a near split games in net and Glen Gulutzan as in-term Head Coach.

Candidates fir a new HC? Gully? Boucher? Green?

 

[ahmon]

Great overall post LeftCoast.

Your sentence that I'm quoting is exactly how I feel by the way.

My point of contention with the 'tank' crowd, is that they want to sell off practically everyone that is 27 or over. My stance is that by doing this, it would actually hurt the rebuilding process as the team would be put in a position where they'd have to play young players in roles that they are too green for (i.e. Horvat as a #1 C, Hutton as a top pairing D man, Markstrom being expected to bail out what would be an incredibly weak and thin defense).

One thing the Canucks did extremely well these past 15 years, is developing and gradually pushing guys like Naslund, Bertuzzi, twins, Kesler, Schneider, Horvat, etc.

The tank crowd don't seem to realize that there's a lot more to a rebuild than simply immediately selling off all vets and stockpiling on draft picks.

Over the next few years, the Canucks will have plenty of draft picks anyways if they just focus on selling/trading vets on expiring contracts (i.e. Vrbata/Hammer this year, Miller/Burrows next year, Sedins/Hansen in 2018, Edler in 2020).

1. I don't see posters claiming we should trade everyone over 27.

2. You are assuming we can't acquire anyone over 27 to insulate young players.

3. I don't agree with your timeline to sell the vets. Would selling Hamhuis last year not return better assets?
Would selling Edler now not return better assets than in 2020?

Why do you want to sell low but not high, when we need value?


Say we sell Vrbata/Edler/Hamhuis/Hansen every single one of them even.

Are the Sedins/Sutter/Burrows/Dorsett/Hamhuis(re-sign)/Tanev not enough vets? we can add a couple via free agency as well.

how many vets do you need?

 

[Nucker101]

1. I don't see posters claiming we should trade everyone over 27.

2. You are assuming we can't acquire anyone over 27 to insulate young players.

3. I don't agree with your timeline to sell the vets. Would selling Hamhuis last year not return better assets?
Would selling Edler now not return better assets than in 2020?

Why do you want to sell low but not high, when we need value?


Say we sell Vrbata/Edler/Hamhuis/Hansen every single one of them even.

Are the Sedins/Sutter/Burrows/Hamhuis(re-sign)/Tanev not enough vets? we can add a couple via free agency as well.

how many vets do you need?

This.

 

[stuffradio]

I am back on team tank, I really want a top 5 pick this year. Is that so much to ask?.

No, I just want a top 3 pick.

 

[LeftCoast]

If we lose tonight, it's gotta be time to pick up the phone.

 

[CanaFan]

1. I don't see posters claiming we should trade everyone over 27.

2. You are assuming we can't acquire anyone over 27 to insulate young players.

3. I don't agree with your timeline to sell the vets. Would selling Hamhuis last year not return better assets?
Would selling Edler now not return better assets than in 2020?

Why do you want to sell low but not high, when we need value?


Say we sell Vrbata/Edler/Hamhuis/Hansen every single one of them even.

Are the Sedins/Sutter/Burrows/Dorsett/Hamhuis(re-sign)/Tanev not enough vets? we can add a couple via free agency as well.

how many vets do you need?

Agree completely.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

If we lose tonight, it's gotta be time to pick up the phone.

Yeah, to trade our first for Andrew Ladd.

 

[kanucks25]

Why are tank posts deleted from the GDT?

Being positive and supporting you're team aren't synonymous.

One could argue that the people wanting the Canucks to win at this point are the worst fans of all.

 

[drax0s]

One could argue that the people wanting the Canucks to win at this point are the worst fans of all.

That'd be a terrible argument, and I'm on Team Tank.