The state of the Habs Rebuild - The Next step

[Leon Lucius Black]

With what Bergevin left on this team, what was needed most was a long rebuild not a quick retool. Despite being a crazy hockey market, management was needed that would have an actual plan and stick with it.

That is exactly what HuGo are doing, it is easy to trade high picks/prospects to move useless vets or improve the team to get fans/media off their back, but HuGo are most focused on sticking to their plan to properly rebuild this team.

After seeing how shitty Buffalo, Ottawa and Detroit's rebuilds have gone, I am happy that our management actually has patience unlike the majority of this fan base.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Everybody is so negative and grumpy , we just had the best tank weekend of the year and all the negative Nancy's are mad. I must be the only one excited on the site

Maybe 5-10% of Habs fans in the real world are cheering for the tank - most regular people just want to see a competitive and fun team, and we have been robbed of that.

As @ReHabs put it - the Habs are not a retirement plan for me. My dad and uncles are getting older now and it is painful to watch Habs games with them as they recall the glory days, they can hardly stomach what they see on the ice now.

I would much rather get 82+ nights of enjoyable hockey to watch this year than some uninsured promise that we should be better in 5 years.

 

[rahad]

At this point... individual players will continue to be as bad as they are unless coaching change is made. I don't expect anyone to play any different than how they are playing now without fundamental changes to the system... which again implies have to change the coach. MSL had enough rope. Thanks Marty. Bon chance but you're done. Same goes for his assistants. Time to take a closer look at Hughes as well. Perhaps he too needs an experienced ex-GM to give him some clues.

it's been only 1/4 of the season and it already feels like we've suffered through 8 months of suckage. Things have to change NOW. Not in the summer. Not next season. Now.

Did you forgot about Rangers ex GM Jeff Gorton?

 

[The Real Timo]

Did you forgot about Rangers ex GM Jeff Gorton?

I'll get to him soon enough.

 

[The Real Timo]

Why the urgency?

I am really tired of watching shitty hockey? Embarrassing hockey, in fact... I want to be able to proudly say Habs are my team and not get laughed at? After thirty year, I guess what's another 10, but chances are that even after 10 more things will likely not change much. But sure... let's give them more time. They clearly need more time. Not enough was given before.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Maybe 5-10% of Habs fans in the real world are cheering for the tank - most regular people just want to see a competitive and fun team, and we have been robbed of that.

As @ReHabs put it - the Habs are not a retirement plan for me. My dad and uncles are getting older now and it is painful to watch Habs games with them as they recall the glory days, they can hardly stomach what they see on the ice now.

I would much rather get 82+ nights of enjoyable hockey to watch this year than some uninsured promise that we should be better in 5 years.

Well we have been robbed from a competitive and fun team for almost 30 years lol. I guess nobody realises it because everybody is just a homer lol.

This revisionist history of how we were ever *competitive* and *fun* is hilarious

I am really tired of watching shitty hockey? Embarrassing hockey, in fact... I want to be able to proudly say Habs are my team and not get laughed at? After thirty year, I guess what's another 10, but chances are that even after 10 more things will likely not change much. But sure... let's give them more time. They clearly need more time. Not enough was given before.

Been watching shitty hockey for 30 years.

Any entertainment we had was off the back of a goalie playing on his head in front of a bottom 10 roster.

Yeah Markov Subban were fun , the whole of the rosters on paper were always an absolute joke league wide , If you guys yearn for that that's fine, I don't.

We've had the worst top 6 forwards in the league in the 21st century with Arizona during all those amazing first and second round wins lol

 

[Miller Time]

Maybe 5-10% of Habs fans in the real world are cheering for the tank - most regular people just want to see a competitive and fun team, and we have been robbed of that.

As @ReHabs put it - the Habs are not a retirement plan for me. My dad and uncles are getting older now and it is painful to watch Habs games with them as they recall the glory days, they can hardly stomach what they see on the ice now.

I would much rather get 82+ nights of enjoyable hockey to watch this year than some uninsured promise that we should be better in 5 years.

Totally fair.

I don't agree, but I understand the priority on short term enjoyment of game to game performance...

I wonder though, if that's the main point, wouldn't it be a better approach to just watch the top teams in the league each year... you get the best hockey on TV each night and get to enjoy every playoff season, without the hassle of dealing with the inevitable cap system ebbs and flows of roster strength.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I must have been the only one who was pulling my hair for the entire Gainey Bergevin era because our team was a joke on paper? Maybe i'm the crazy one , because all those teams are dogmeat and never had a shot at a cup.

People in here talking about the *good old days* *competitive hockey* , we were all crying for years with 50-60 point forwards being our best players.

Don't change the narrative

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I am really tired of watching shitty hockey? Embarrassing hockey, in fact... I want to be able to proudly say Habs are my team and not get laughed at? After thirty year, I guess what's another 10, but chances are that even after 10 more things will likely not change much. But sure... let's give them more time. They clearly need more time. Not enough was given before.

You know why we sucked for thirty years? Impatience.

That’s why we didn’t get a top five pick for thirty years. That’s why we didn’t get any players who could score 50 goals or 100 points. We didn’t trade for picks/prospects. Didn’t wait for them to develop. Didn’t give them time to come back from injuries and just wrote them off.

That’s how you build a losing team.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Totally fair.

I don't agree, but I understand the priority on short term enjoyment of game to game performance...

I wonder though, if that's the main point, wouldn't it be a better approach to just watch the top teams in the league each year... you get the best hockey on TV each night and get to enjoy every playoff season, without the hassle of dealing with the inevitable cap system ebbs and flows of roster strength.

For some it is, we are definitely losing the younger generation of Habs fans

 

[morhilane]

I still think a number 1 center is a better pick at the number 1 spot than a big winger.

If you have to pick between those 3 players who would you pick to start your team?

Between Bedard - Slaf and Celibrini. You can even rank them 1 to 3.

You don't build a team with a single player or even only two players. What matters is how you build around them.

And while you might think getting a #1 center at #1oa is better, most #1 center on the league were not taken #1 oa. Nor are most #1 dmen, or #1 goalies or #1 wingers.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

For some it is, we are definitely losing the younger generation of Habs fans

We put off what we should’ve done for thirty years. The result was crap teams.

We got incredibly lucky on a one time lottery and snagged a HOf goalie or the 2010s would’ve been a complete write off.

Rebuilding sucks. We didn’t have the patience for it so we sucked for three decades. Now that we’re rebuilding you have folks complaining about it.

The only thing worse than a rebuild is an aborted rebuild half way through.

 

[Demigod]

I am really tired of watching shitty hockey? Embarrassing hockey, in fact... I want to be able to proudly say Habs are my team and not get laughed at? After thirty year, I guess what's another 10, but chances are that even after 10 more things will likely not change much. But sure... let's give them more time. They clearly need more time. Not enough was given before.

Every rebuilding teams are painful to watch. Its part of the process. Your right when you say that it might never work. However, the last 30 years of this team always been make the playoff and will see what happens after.

The fact is that we never had a team that was good enough to win a Stanley Cup. We've been average team at best those last 30 years and each years the GM was trying to patch our holes by signing expensive UFA or by doing trade that never help us being a real contender.

Even if I really find this hard and painful to watch my Habs being at the bottom of the league, its the first time I have faith that we can become a real powerhouse and a contender for the cup.

There's still a lot of work to be done, and nothing is sure, but I think its worth giving a shot at this plan. Hopefully the team can start being competitive for playoff in 2026-2027 season and be a contender by 2029-2030.

Rebuild is a long road but its better than being an average team that dont compete for the Stanley Cup for another 30 years.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You don't build a team with a single player or even only two players. What matters is how you build around them.

And while you might think getting a #1 center at #1oa is better, most #1 center on the league were not taken #1 oa. Nor are most #1 dmen, or #1 goalies or #1 wingers.

If you want star players, you’re going to want to draft high with regularity. There’s no secret to that. And even if you miss the BPA you’ll still probably end up with a really good player to build with.

 

[ReHabs]

Maybe 5-10% of Habs fans in the real world are cheering for the tank - most regular people just want to see a competitive and fun team, and we have been robbed of that.

As @ReHabs put it - the Habs are not a retirement plan for me. My dad and uncles are getting older now and it is painful to watch Habs games with them as they recall the glory days, they can hardly stomach what they see on the ice now.

I would much rather get 82+ nights of enjoyable hockey to watch this year than some uninsured promise that we should be better in 5 years.

What’s crazy is that this season is AWFUL.

Regression across the board. Slaf is playing like a passenger again, Dach is playing like total mess, Newhook is irrelevant, Barron a non-entity, etc, our 5OA Reinbacher destroyed his knee on a bump while the guy we didn’t pick is on fire, our coach looks clueless, and our manager hasn’t made a single move.

Hutson being good so far and Caufield is relieving us our doubts about his upside are too good things. How much joy can we expect from those two things?

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

We put off what we should’ve done for thirty years. The result was crap teams.

We got incredibly lucky on a one time lottery and snagged a HOf goalie or the 2010s would’ve been a complete write off.

Rebuilding sucks. We didn’t have the patience for it so we sucked for three decades. Now that we’re rebuilding you have folks complaining about it.

The only thing worse than a rebuild is an aborted rebuild half way through.

When was the ideal time to rebuild when we were making the playoffs every year with Kovalev/Koivu and Price/Subban/Markov?

 

[rahad]

Getting Bedard and Celebrini haven't magically lifted the Sharks or Hawks from the depth of the standings. Both started their rebuild a year after the Habs and have older line-ups then the Habs.

And I'm going to tell you a secret, Bedard and Celebrini aren't starting from the dzone as much as Slaf is and both those teams have better vets then the Habs have. Slaf is currently 2nd to Evans among forwards in term of "quality of opposition" faced (only Guhle/Matheson face harder).

With the way the Sharks are playing and Celebrini being a franchise player. They won't stay at the bottom for long. Chicago pretty much traded every good player to be in the bottom for multiples years. With Bedard, they could be a playoff team around 2027. Same for the Sharks.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

What’s crazy is that this season is AWFUL.

Regression across the board. Slaf is playing like a passenger again, Dach is playing like total mess, Newhook is irrelevant, Barron a non-entity, etc, our 5OA Reinbacher destroyed his knee on a bump while the guy we didn’t pick is on fire, our coach looks clueless, and our manager hasn’t made a single move.

Hutson being good so far and Caufield is relieving us our doubts about his upside are too good things. How much joy can we expect from those two things?

You can probably expect a high pick.

Is it the result most of us wanted? No. But that’s how rebuilds work. The results will tell you when it’s over.

We have the option to get bridge players to help us through. Malkin would likely be one who’s available. And maybe that’d be a good way to help develop our younger players. Or we bite the bullet and draft high again. Then maybe we get a bridge player next year or continue to grow organically.

We’ve come this far, might as well see it through.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

When was the ideal time to rebuild when we were making the playoffs every year with Kovalev/Koivu and Price/Subban/Markov?

Mid 90s was when we should’ve rebuilt. We spun our wheels for years. Then in 2010 or whatever when we added Gomez and Gionta - that made no sense at all.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

With the way the Sharks are playing and Celebrini being a franchise player. They won't stay at the bottom for long. Chicago pretty much traded every good player to be in the bottom for multiples years. With Bedard, they could be a playoff team around 2027. Same for the Sharks.

Or it might take them a lot longer. You can’t really predict it.

I think the Sharks will be better sooner. Bedard is really all by himself. They tore it down to the studs. He’s like Yzerman was on those terrible teams. All by himself.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I didn't bother checking what 111 pages of this thread brought but Hughes is overrated as a GM. We have 2 guys who are/were GMs and I am not convinced they can fix us in a reasonable time-frame and no, I don't believe MB set us so far back that it will take 15 years to recover.

I wonder if the honeymoon phase is over but who knows.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Mid 90s was when we should’ve rebuilt. We spun our wheels for years. Then in 2010 or whatever when we added Gomez and Gionta - that made no sense at all.

Mid 90s? Who cares that was a generation of players ago. Zero influence on anything we do now.

2010? You would have traded Price?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Mid 90s? Who cares that was a generation of players ago. Zero influence on anything we do now.

Don’t ask me about the past if you don’t want to know about it.

YES the mid 90s is when we should’ve rebuilt. It’s stupid that we didn’t. All we did was spin our wheels.

2010? You would have traded Price?

Or course not.

But I wouldn’t have gone out and gotten mediocre players to build with. I’d have kept McDonnaugh. I’d have kept Higgins. I’d have dealt some vets for picks and prospects. Instead we let them walk for no return.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

I think something that gets ignored is that it easier to stay competitive than it is to rebuild and become competitive once again.

The top teams this year were the top teams last year. It's easy to stay competitive when you have good players and your only issue is the cap crunch, then you can move on from your aging star players and trade them for picks and prospects while still remaining competitive.

The main contender killer is allegiance to aging stars. That's why Pittsburgh, Detroit, and San Jose are cooked and Tampa, Florida, and Vegas are still doing well. If you move your aging stars, you never have to go through a full scorched earth rebuild.

 

[ReHabs]

The main contender killer is allegiance to aging stars. That's why Pittsburgh, Detroit, and San Jose are cooked and Tampa, Florida, and Vegas are still doing well. If you move your aging stars, you never have to go through a full scorched earth rebuild.

Or you can do what Bergevin did and visibly see your main players break down physically and mentally and do nothing to mitigate against their loss.